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Was going for B&W 750

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Kobus, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. Kobus

    Kobus
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    Until recently I was going to purchase a B&W ASW 750. That is about as far as I could stretch the budget.

    Then I started reading about the SVS and how everybody here raves about them. I have e-mailed them and they even ship to South Africa. You must appreciate that I have not got much chance here to listen to one.

    1. Which of their range will be in the "class" of the 750's ?.
    2. Considering the room size, what is the "biggest" SVS I can go for ?.

    My dedicated room (busy building) will be 7m x 4m. My front speakers is B&W 803.
     
  2. whats_this

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    heard a 750 just before buying my 20-39+ and hearing the svs Ultra. Basically either of them wins hands down (imo) and is still cheaper than buying a 750 (in the uk). Although i have only ever heard the cylinders, from what i have heard, the boxes are just as good although little bit more expensive.

    Imo only go with the 750 if you really really like the looks and just want to pick it up and take it home, Performance/value for money/bass extension/distortion go for the svs.

    Urban T was running his 804/ sig 805 with the 20-39+ and he was happy with the match (fair enough he moved to an 850, but that is a different price bracket)

    Having re read your post im not sure what the exchange rates are like in SA so you will need to see what is the best you can afford. If you can get any svs plus model i would imagine you will be well chuffed in comparrison to the 750.

    Iain
     
  3. Daneel

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    I don't think the SVS wins hands down by any means. The 750 is a very good sub that I have been hugely impressed with in the past. Its limitations are that it doesn't quite have the extension of the SVS subs and can't play as loud cleanly as a comparably priced SVS.

    In your room size I think the 750 would cope fine for output. Price wise, I guess the SVS PB12 Ultra will undercut it slightly and perform a bit better. In the wood finish it will look very nice (unlike the cylinder SVS subs). That model isn't out yet though, the PB12 Plus with wood finish will be shipping in May and I would think will give comparable performance for less money.
     
  4. Smurfin

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    Iain. "wins hands down" is a gross generalisation and is nowhere near the truth.

    1. I bet you didn't hear the subs you mention in the same room.
    2. Nor at the same time.
    3. The partnering equipment was likely different too.
    4. Setup?

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on the above points, but there isn't JUST svs out there and they aren't the "be all and end all" that people sometimes suggest. I would take the ASW750 over the 2 SVS subs listed any day; but then aesthetics are important to me also.
     
  5. Ian J

    Ian J
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    That would effectively rule out every magazine review as well as almost every comparative review of anything
     
  6. Des Flurane

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    Is this a SVS forum?
    Des.
     
  7. rags

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    And your point is ?
     
  8. whats_this

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    Having re read my post I feel like a bit of an "svs basher" as I did basically rule out the 750 which was harsh and unfair, as I do really feel it is a good sub and I am not an expert on it in the least.

    You are indeed right smurfin, I did not have the chance to listen to both subs in the same room or the same time with the same equipment, and there will have been many things that could and will have affected the sub leaving me with a bad impression of it.

    I played with the sub for over an hour with a wide range of different material and just couldn't get it to sound right.

    The problems I found with it where, high levels of distortion, lack of extension and i just couldn't get it to integrate with the rest of the system properly. The first two were probably the more serious for me as im sure having a bfd, an spl (and probably a bit more experience with forward firing subs) would have resolved the last issue.

    I am sure the 750 is a very good sub when set up properly and given the right room and material but I can only go on what I have heard, I probably didn't play to the 750 strengths as I did have the whole system running quite loudly but at the asking price of £1300 I was very disappointed with it as I thought there should be more to it especially with extension.

    The set up used when hearing the 750 was very respectable (denon 3805, arcam 88+, 704 fronts 705 rears and htm7 in a dedicated sevenoaks demo room) and the rest of the setup sounded very nice indeed although I didn't bother to check the settings on the 3805 as I presumed that would have been taken care of before hand, although i imagine now it was probably all just thrown in the room.

    I agree that my previous statement "wins hands down" implies a lot and was misused as I have only listened to the 750 once, but on my memories of the differences between the 3 subs both svs had better cleaner extension, they were fast, tight, controlled and accurate which on my demos were characteristics that the 750 didn't display very well.

    Then you have value for money which I think is why svs have their reputation and probably this sub-forum.

    I definitely agree that svs are not the be all and end all of subs, which can be found on the forums in places (perfect example is in my first post), but in regards to value for money in the uk, they are phenomenal. SVS do get huge hype as a company most of which I think is deserved but they are not the only subs in the world worth listening to by any means.

    I still feel the 20-39+ offers better value for money than the 750 (although it not pretty to look at) and given the choice of either at the same price I would still choose the svs as I feel it outperforms the 750 In certain areas which I feel are key.
     
  9. Daneel

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    Much better. Why can't everyone be so reasonable? :)

    BTW, I thought the 750 was £1,200, did the price go up or was a I just wrong to begin with?
     
  10. whats_this

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    think you are probably right, £1,300 was just off the top of my head. Not entirly sure I must admit.
     
  11. rags

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    Not sure where you got the high levels of distortion bit from - I have on many occasions driven my 750 (set up a tad hot) to insane levels (and I do mean insane :D ) and not heard distortion. Which Sevenoaks branch did you get this demo in ?
     
  12. whats_this

    whats_this
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    Croydon.
     
  13. rags

    rags
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    Well the next time I am down in Purley at my cousins house Im going to pay them a visit and pass on a few tips on how to set the damn thing up. I am no expert but high levels of distortion sounds like something was seriously screwed up to me.
     
  14. whats_this

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    lol, i might come along and learn a couple of things to. A bit off topic but i was under the impression you owned an 850 and were moving to one of the new diamond range subs. Is that just a load of rubish or is there just a long delay for the subs from the new b&w range?
     
  15. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Can we keep it on topic please as Kobus is still looking for opinions on SVS or B&W. Thanks :)
     
  16. rags

    rags
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    I used to own an 850 but sold it in error. Thats however a significant step up from the 750 in both price and performance.

    Personally Kobus I wouldnt go for the 750 or the SVS subs mentioned above. Your 803's and the size of your room deserve better. 7m by 4m is a good size room and can easily accomodate something a lot better.

    Unless you have already done so I woud suggest you get a demo of the 750. The 803's are lovely speakers and it might be worth saving to get something like the B&W850 (which you might pick up cheaply second hand) which offers fantastic performance in an aesthetically pleasing package. Other considerations might be something like a B&W ASW825 from the new 800 series range (which I now have myself) or a nice SVS PB2 Ultra in a wood finish. More expensive options but these will serve you better in the long run.
     
  17. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Looks shouldn't come into it when making suggestions, at the end of the day not everyone one has the same ideas of what looks good and what doesn't and it's the easiest thing to make a judgement on since pictures are readily available. I personally think that wood finish speakers look crap and as far as I can tell don't make it sound any better.
     
  18. rags

    rags
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    Unfortunately pictures dont tell the whole story. For example I had seen pictures of the PB2+ but was quite shocked when I actually saw it in the flesh.

    Thankfully people like you are in the minority and most manufacturers offer a range of stains for us wood loving folk to chose from (inc SVS on some of their subs)!
     
  19. Jeff

    Jeff
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    People like me? I'm unique! I think you will find that there are far more speakers without wood finish than with. It's good that there is a choice, we don't need the fashion police saying what looks good and what doesn't. The original poster certainly didn't ask for it.
     
  20. Stellavision

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    I've owned a ASW750 and an SVS 25-31 PCi and the B&W was tighter,had greater extension, more head room and was more aesthetcally pleasing.
    The 25-31 PCi is of course at the lower end of the SVS product scale and I have not heard any others, but I'm pretty sure the B&W wouldn't be hugely embarressed of it's self.
    I beleive Rags and Smurfin did a ASW750 vs SVS PB12-Plus/2 comparison a while ago and concluded that the ASW750 only lost out on it's slightly less extension capabilities. Guys, correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  21. rags

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    I wasnt having a go.....

    Not sure what you are referring to with your comment above but most mainstream mfrs offer the majority of their speaker models in a wood finish alone - B&W, Kef, Quad etc

    What we dont need is someone who isnt a mod acting like one dictating what members can and cannot talk about. Daneel, Smurfin, Stellavision, whats this and I have have talked about aesthetics / looks in this thread - that certainly doesnt make them or me the fashion police ! I can imagine quite a few threads will get deleted if your rules were in place. If you like how SVS subs look or prefer non wood finishes just say so as you have done Jeff but dont dictate what we can or cant post in a thread. Kobus has a lovely pair of 803's (in a wood finish I would like to add) and its a relevant point.
     
  22. rags

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    Thank you Barrie. I was going to refer to you in this thread :) .

    Given the cost difference between the two subs this is not a surprising result. But it certainly clearly illustrates how SVS subs do not offer 3 times the performance of similarily priced subs from other mfrs as has been claimed in some quarters.
     
  23. Jeff

    Jeff
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    You're right post what you like. It just sounds like you are making excuses for the way it performs by constantly talking about looks.
     
  24. rags

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    Constantly ? The only time I mentioned anything on the subject was in my post at the top of the thread - all I said was that to me the ASW850 was aesthetically pleasing. In the same post I also mentioned that Kobus should also consider the PB2 Ultra ! Not sure how that counts as constantly.....

    Anyway not sure about the fashion police but the SVS police will be round soon and I suspect most of this thread will get severely amended.
     
  25. Smurfin

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    Ian, are you saying my point isn't valid?
     
  26. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Only just picked up on this thread after my initial post and what's_this follow up post is much more balanced:)

    We all have our own opinions and obviously different experiences of kit - and if we all had exactly the same preferences and thus (ultimately) equipment, then wouldn't it be boring? :)

    I can say having compared the 750 directly with the PB-12 Plus/2 in the same room, with the same equipment, all calibrated with an SPL meter and both BFD'd, that the ASW750 is a stunning performer, and only outclassed by the PB-12 Plus/2 in the extension stakes (with the Plus/2 obviously being better than the 20-39). In the upper bass regions (actually down to around 20hz) there's little if anything separating the two. If you heard distortion there's something not right.

    Jeff: I respect your views on most things AV but I really disagree with this:

    Why aren't looks relevant? For many people it's key, especially as only a small % of people have dedicated rooms. And re: pictures, I've lost count of the number of posts of people buying the SVS bins and having seen the photos, they still post lots of :eek: smilies along with comments like "I had no idea, the wife's going to kill me:eek: " :)

    And if views on looks shouldn't be considered because everyone has a different opinion of what looks good, couldn't the same be said of the sound itself? I know the original poster didn't specifically ask about the aesthetics, but for others reading the thread it's certainly a factor.

    One final point I'd add...obviously the price differential is significant between the ASW750 and the 20-39 Plus, and that alone will swing it for many:) But I don't for one minute believe the SVS is superior to the 750 in terms of sound quality:)
     
  27. Jeff

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    I must have had a bad day when I posted that, aesthetics are important to me also and in a dedicated room SVS cylinders look quite nice. :thumbsup:

    I was a very happy B&W sub owner for a couple of years, so no surprise to me that the ASW750 compares well.
     
  28. Kobus

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    Hi, thanks for all the replies. It seems that everybody agrees on the looks issue.
    Looks do count, on everything. Unfortunately in some cases it counts to much.
     
  29. russraff

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    Rags:

    Sorry, I must be having an off day 'cause I am not sure what you mean by:
    Is this a reference to the size of SVS subs or the quality of finish?

    Just to add, I have heard the 750 sub and it is an astonishingly good piece of kit. Talk of distortion is certainly way off the mark from my experience.

    Russell
     
  30. rags

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    Russell - yeah basically I was shocked by the size of it.
     

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