Warranty Replacement TV. £1,500 budget. Sony 65XF9005? 65ZF9? LG B8?

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by MrHavana, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. MrHavana

    MrHavana
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    Hi, I have a 55" Samsung M5520 FHD TV which is 19 months old and has developed a minor screen fault. I bought a 2 year warranty extension with it, but the warranty company is only offering a Samsung 55NU7021 worth £399 as a replacement, which is completely unsuitable for my requirements and 20-25% cheaper than my existing TV was.

    I have the option to upgrade the replacement TV to a Sony 65XF9005 for £1000 saving £500, which is better or a 55XF9005 for £600, saving £400. However, if I pay the difference for the 65XF9005 I'm concerned I'll only have 17 months month's warranty left on it at best and I certainly wouldn't want to be dealing with this warranty company and their crappy replacements again if I needed to claim on the new TV.

    A standalone 5 year warranty would cost around £325 making the upgrade cost £1325, which isn't far off the £1499 I could buy the TV for from Richer Sounds or John Lewis with a better 5/6 year warranty. I'm thinking worst case I could take the Samsung 55NU7021 and sell it for £300 then buy the Sony 65XF9005 elsewhere. Net cost £1,200.

    I will of course take the warranty company to task over whether the Samsung 55NU7021 with just 2 HDMI ports is a suitable replacement. I had enquired about Samsung 55NU7400 or 55NU8000 as replacements, but they aren't available via their supply channel. I then asked about a Hisense 55U7A or 65U7A, but am waiting to hear back on availability and upgrade cost. I think I'll probably get the best "free" TV I can out of them to sell and buy something elsewhere with a better warranty.

    Which brings me to my question (finally). Is the Sony 65XF9005 my best bang for buck at £1500?

    The TV will be in a very bright room and is also used extensively at night. My sources are Now TV (720p), Humax FreeSat (90% 720p, 10% 1080p) and possibly Amazon Prime, but my internet speed isn't sufficient for steaming 4K. There will be some very occasional gaming - I sometimes move the PS4 to the lounge for a day or 2. I went for a FHD when buying my existing TV as I wasn't very impressed with 720p upscaling to 4K on anything available at the time under £1500.

    The TV is wall mounted and viewing distance is 9-10ft. I would love an OLED like the LG B8, but it's in quite a bright room and I understand the Sony does a better job of upscaling 720p. OLED screen burn/image retention isn't as much a concern for me.

    Are there any other 65" inch TV's up to £1,500 I could be looking at with good upscaling? John Lewis have the Sony KD65ZF9 at just £1,299, but I understand that has some backlight issues. A Samsung 65NU8000 at £1,029 is still tempting value.

    I hope some of you are still awake after reading this.
     
  2. MrHavana

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    A little update:

    The warranty company has offered me a Hisense H55U7AUK for £42 or a H65U7AUK for £567. It looks like the H55U7AUK gives me the best potential return to sell and hopefully clear £400 to put towards a new TV.

    I forgot to mention viewing angles in my OP - I don't need wide viewing angles so a VA panel is preferred.

    Good HDR would be nice to have, but I'm not likely to view much HDR content - just the occasional BluRay I guess. I’m still thinking along the lines of a Samsung 65NU8000 @ £1029 or Sony 65XF9005 @ £1,500, but not sure if the Sony is worth the extra £470.

    Samsung 65ZF9 caught my attention, but may struggle with bloom at night and an LG 65B8 would be nice, but I wouldn't be getting the most out of it with only infrequent HDR source material.

    I feel the Samsung 65NU8000 makes sense, but I won't be buying another TV for a good while and don't want to make a mistake on this one.
     
  3. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I really think that now you can get the LG B8 OLED close to price to the XF9005 that it represents better value. The upscaling on the Sony you may find better but I really doubt it warrants the drawbacks you get going for that TV over the B8 OLED.

    If you wanted a compromise between upscaling and price you could stick with an OLED and go for the LG C8 with an updated processor for better upscaling compared to the B8, the Panasonic FZ802, Philips OLED803 or Sony AF8 which all have good upscaling.

    Here's a comparison between the models: 2018-2019 OLED Comparison

    A few notes from me:

    - I wouldn't worry about using an OLED in a bright room, they can get 2-3 times brighter than your old TV and they have better anti reflection filters too. Sometimes its hard not to read that OLEDs perform bad in bright rooms because of their limited peak brightness but the peak brightness is only the limiting factor with HDR, not SDR.
    - The Sony ZF9 is not really a good option compared to the Samsung Q9FN. It has poorer local dimming and smaller peak brightness compared to the Samsung.
    - The Hisense U7A you have been offered isn't a bad TV at all and is a very good SDR performer. I do not think a TV like the Sony XF9005, ZF9 or even the Samsung Q9FN will be far ahead of it with SDR. HDR however is a different story.
    - You may find me cracking on about SDR and HDR a lot but its for good reason, if you are buying LCD tech then 90% of what you pay extra for in a higher end model compared to a lower end one is HDR performance. It means you can save a lot if you only use SDR and do not care so much about the TV displays HDR.
     
  4. MrHavana

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    Thank you Dodge. I went to Richer Sounds today to look at an LG C8 and they had a Panasonic FZ802 alongside it. They were both by the window and the image on both was fine for brightness. Reflected light wasn't so great (there was quite a lot of reflection) but manageable I think. My TV is turned in to the room so I won't get the windows in the reflection at least. There was also an LG E8 next to the C8, which is the same in terms of PQ and processing but helped provide comparison.

    In a nutshell, I preferred the picture on the Panasonic and in particular the motion processing for upscaled content. The shop still has an old Sky box with 720p and 1080i output and the image looked better on the Panasonic in my eyes. They also had an HD (not UHD) Blu Ray of The Greatest Showman which looked great. In a scene where Hugh Jackman is in the centre of the ring with the camera circling around him, the spotlights behind him were a little blurred as they moved across the screen on both the LG's but were clearer on the Panasonic.

    So the OLED choice for me would be the Panasonic FZ802, which Richer Sounds are doing for £1,749 at the moment (£1,899 -£150 voucher). I'm just not sure I want to spend that much on a TV. It's more than I spent on my last 3 TVs put together! Samsung UE55M5520, Toshiba 46TL868 and Sony KDL-32V4000 (still going strong after 10 years).

    Unfortunately, they didn't have any Samsung NU8000/RU8000 or Hisense U7A on display to check out the upscaling on. I will see if I can get a look at them somewhere tomorrow, but the usual suspects (Currys, John Lewis, etc) aren't likely to be able to show 720/1080 source material on them from previous experience. However, I'm passing near Chiswick tomorrow so hopefully the Richer Sounds branch there might have them on display.

    My shortlist seems to be down to the excellent Panasonic TX-65FZ802B at £1,749 or the more affordable Samsungs at £1029/£1099 or even Hisense at £899. I know the Panasonic is in a completely different league, but if I'm rarely going to watch HDR content and if the cheaper units do a good enough job of upscaling 720/1080p then they might suffice.
     
  5. Dodgexander

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    I think you are on the right track with the TVs you are looking at but if you can get the LG B8 for around £250 cheaper than the Panasonic FZ802 isn't that a worthy compromise considering you still get the gains of OLED tech, better HDMI connectivity with 4x HDMI 2 ports instead of 2 v2 and 2 v1.4 on the Panasonic?

    Also, at risk of being pedantic did you use the motion settings on each TV? It may have been the case that some motion settings were applied by default on the Panasonic and not on the LG which may be why it looked a lot better. Usually they apply them by default.
     
  6. martin 39

    martin 39
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  7. MrHavana

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    Thanks Dodge. I did try them both with motion on and off. There certainly wasn't much in it and I don't doubt the C8 would be just as good or better if comparing with HDR source material, which I didn't get to do, but that doesn't concern me as much as upscaled output. Only having 2 x HDMI 2.0 ports is a fair point, though I don't have any devices to take advantage of them. The only thing that might be on the horizon is a PlayStation 5, which might also double up as a 4K HDR Blu Ray player.

    Although I haven't seen the B8, the Panasonic is only £50 more and if the processing/upscaling on the B8 is a little behind the C8, then I think I'll probably be happier with the Panasonic.

    Thanks Martin, that's a great find. Unfortunately I wouldn't want to forego a 5-6 year warranty on such an expensive purchase. A standalone warranty at £325 is almost exactly the difference between the refurb and new units. If I was a little less risk averse that would be a great deal.
     
  8. martin 39

    martin 39
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    Totally understand there is also the option of the 65gx800 i also have the 802 but only the 55. I went with it for the same reasons as you over the lg and the fact it was nearly £400 cheaper in the boxing day sale
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  9. MrHavana

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    How do you find the FZ802 for upscaling and in general? Any gipes?

    I hadn't considered the GX800, but will take a look.
     
  10. Dodgexander

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    No!! Please don't compare the GX800 its a mid range LCD more on par with Hisense U7A and at a push the Samsung NU8000!

    Its a 2019 model which is why its priced similar to high end TVs from 2018!

    I am surprised the LG B8 is only £50 less than the Panasonic FZ802. Maybe you are only comparing the price in one place or with a specific model?

    Take a check of OLED Price Changes (that post may be of interest itself, but generally its a good thread to follow).

    TV pricing fluctuates a lot, so one day X TV will be a good price, the next Y. They put the prices up and down so fast buying is as much about buying at the right time as it is buying the right model.
     
  11. martin 39

    martin 39
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  12. TheCrazy

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    If youre not worried about burn in, you'd be crazy not to get the OLED.
     
  13. MrHavana

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    I was going on the understanding that Currys were cheapest for the B8 at £1,699, although I've just seen in the thread you linked to that Costco are selling them for £1,499. The FZ802 is £1,749 at Richer Sounds or £1,300 refurbished from Panasonic's ebay outlet.

    I went to Richer Sounds in Chiswick Sunday, but they didn't have anything I wanted to look at on display.

    I then went to Currys who had plenty on display, but a mix of different content on different screens which made it difficult to compare the models I'm considering. Plus everything had 4K demos playing, which doesn't tell me anything about their upscaling capabilities.

    They had a Samsung RU8000, but it was on some terrible settings that made it look worse than just about any other TV there. Washed out, dull and off colour. Well done Currys.

    They had a Sony FX9005 which looked amazing on UHD. There were some frames that had white text on a black background and I couldn't see any backlight blooming, but the bright showroom lighting will have made it harder to spot. I need to find the light switches for the place.

    As well as LG B8 and C8 screens they also had a Panasonic FZ952. The Panasonic had a different 4K demo playing than the LGs and they were at opposite sides of the showroom so it was difficult to compare them. Again, UHD demos are all well and good, but don't relate to what I'll be viewing at home.

    The Panasonic demo wasn't nearly as good as the LG and Sony demos so hard to compare. I will call Richer Sounds in Reading to see what they have on display before potentially visiting this weekend. I wonder if they would price match Costco on the LG B6?

    I find myself thinking most about the LG B6 at £1,500 and the Panasonic FZ802 refurb at £1,300.
     
  14. martin 39

    martin 39
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  15. MrHavana

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    Thanks Martin. I would be more wary of an ex display unit than a refurb due to the hours an ex display will likely have on it.

    I appreciate the link though. :thumbsup:

    Edit. I noticed it has a 5 year warranty, but a new one from RS is only £50 more.
     
  16. martin 39

    martin 39
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    Yes sorry i didnt notice it was ex display just the 5yr warranty
     
  17. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I think you are wasting your time trying to draw conclusions in the store. You won't know if there is something you dislike about the TV until you get it home.

    You cannot judge things like screen uniformity in a store because the lighting is so different. Of course its normal not to notice this on the Sony XF9005 - you will only notice it if the TV is in a darker environment.

    I think you are on the right track with the LG B8 or FZ802 refurb. TV pricing fluctuates a lot and the OLEDs tend not to sell out quite the same as LCDs for some reason.
     
  18. MrHavana

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    Thanks again for your advice Dodge. Good upscaling is a high priority for me and I haven't seen how the B8 handles it or how it compares to the FZ802.

    On that basis I'm more inclined to go for the FZ802, which I've seen upscaling on. I'm still not sure about buying a refurb with 12 months warranty though and adding a 5 year warranty at £325 would bring the total to £1,624 compared to £1,749 new from RS.

    My current TV developed a fault some 15 months after purchase and I had fortunately paid for a 2 year extended warranty for it. All the same, I could probably deal with a £600 TV going wrong out of warranty, but not a £1,300 TV.

    Just to throw a spanner in the works, John Lewis came back to me today accepting a price match on an LG C8 at £1,740

    I hope to bring an end to my pondering imminently :)
     
  19. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Not sure if its possible to get 4k Sat boxes but I use a 4k Freeview box with my TV and I don't notice the TVs better upscaling compared to using the same source via the box and my TV has good upscaling + I view very close to it in the cinema room.

    If you were to move away from lower quality sources where possible (for example not watching 720p TV) then you will have much more of an impact on picture quality compared to having a TV that upscales it better.

    Also, the less stages of upscaling the better. Better to feed the TV a box that does everything pulling it up to UHD than to feed the TV a 720p signal that has already been deinterlaced and upscaled from say SD quality.

    You could even contemplate dumping the use of a designated box with either the LG and Panasonic and have it cope with everything in one step, although you may not be happy with the recording functionality (and need of designated USB HDD) compared to your Humax box.

    I am no expert but I have been in your shoes and have been shocked at how bad lower quality content looks on UHD models compared to FHD ones. I just think that you are always fighting a losing battle until you move away from the lower quality material and upgrade from the source first.
     
  20. MrHavana

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    Unfortunately I'm limited as to the sources I can get. My internet is barely fast enough for 4K on a good day and on a bad day my Now TV suffers repeated signal loss. I can't get Sky Q as I live in a converted convent and our communal satellite will only do standard sky. Our digital aerial doesn't work, pending an aerial upgrade that has been a long time coming so there's no Freeview. Finally, I can't get fibre to the premises such as Virgin either, hence the Freesat box and Now TV and my focus on upscaling capabilities. Even the satellite feed is sometimes insufficient for 1080p. It's a real comedy of errors.

    As for your 4K Freeview box, none of your Freeview chanels are 4K because Freeview only broadcasts 720 and 1080. I think you'll find 4K only applies to iPlayer, Amazon Prime and the like. It's the same as Now TV calling their previous boxes HD. None of the Now TV chanels are HD, but you can supposedly get HD from the iPlayer app on it and other apps. Even then the PQ from the iPlayer app on my FHD TV is noticeably better than from Now TV's iPlayer app.

    I agree it's a challenge trying to find the best TV for my situation. If my 55" hadn't developed a (minor) fault, I wouldn't be buying a new TV and if decent FHD TV's were still available, I would be buying one of those.

    I'm going to push my budget and go for the new FZ802 from RS or C8 from JL. Will probably toss a coin in the morning.
     
  21. Dodgexander

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    Yes I am aware of this, the box is a BT model and I do pay extra for the BT UHD channel but freeview is indeed max 1080p. The points I was making were several parts though, the first point is that its best to avoid multiple upscaling chains and having one source do the entire upscaling instead. The second is that despite my TV having very good upscaling, letting a designated box handle everything instead looks just as good to me (despite the box's upscaling lauded to be worse than my TV) so if you were able to also get a 4k source device it wouldn't matter which TV you paired with it as far as picture processing is concerned as the box itself would upscale everything the same regardless. The last point is that at the end of the day you are always going to be limited by the source quality and no amount of upscaling power is going to make the world of difference when the source to begin with is very poor.

    It didn't used to be like that in the dawn of the HD era because the demands of upscaling were a lot less. Taking 720x576i quality content and making it up to 1080p was a lot easier with a lot less pixels to make up compared to taking 720p to 2160p and the difference really shows.

    Are you sure that some Satellite signals are in 720p? I thought Freeview and Freesat were either 576i or 1080i/p there is no 720p broadcasting unless you are talking about the Now TV box.

    If you have a sat dish that works on your Humax box for Sky you should be receiving the HD channels in 1080i or p. Maybe your Freesat box is deinterlacing them and down-converting them to 720p. Nontheless if a Humax sat box works for you so will using a Freesat tuner in either TV, that way it will be possible to leave all the upscaling up to the TV in a single step.

    Another bonus in favour of the LG model would be that you can use the Now TV app integrated into the TV instead of a designated box.

    What speed is your internet connection? Is it communal? Is traditional openreach fibre not available? eg fibre over the telephone line and not cable. Broadcast TV doesn't seem like its going to be a plausible way to deliver higher quality content so reliance on the internet going forward is almost a requirement. Netflix/Amazon tend to need a reliable 15mbps for UHD.
     
  22. MrHavana

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    I had just assumed that non-HD Freesat channels were 720p, but you are right - they are 576i. This does not bode well for any upscaling to 4K. Fortunately, more of our viewing is Now TV channels at 720p which mitigates things slightly, but means I will have to pretty much give up on non-HD Freesat channels on a new TV. A 720 feed from an old Sky box was poor when viewed in store at Richer Sounds, but passable.

    I understand where you're coming from regarding how many times the image is scaled. I'm not sure there are any Freesat boxes that upscale and output 4K, but will look in to it or maybe an AV Receiver with good upscaling. Otherwise, connecting the satellite feed directly to the TV will be the better option as you suggest. In this case, the Panasonic will have the edge as it has twin tuners vs 1 on the LG C8. I will also look in to pausing/rewinding/recording to a USB HDD. I will have to weigh that up against having the Now TV integrated on the LG.

    My internet is not communal, it's OpenReach FTTC (fibre to the cabinet, copper to the premises). It's quite heavily contended so I can get 30 Mbps on a good day, but on a bad day the Now TV box loses signal and the lower threshold for that is 2 Mbps I believe. We have no digital/Freeview feed at this time. You can see my predicament.

    Anyway, since drafting this reply I went ahead and ordered the FZ802 from Richer Sounds. I think it’s as good a TV as I will get this side of Black Friday for the money. I’m not expecting much from anything below 1080, a passable 720 image will be a bonus and likewise if my broadband can hold on to a fast enough speed to stream the odd bit of 4K. I’ll be sure to block/disconnect every wireless device in the house from the router when I try this.

    I will update with my impressions on the upscaling capability of the FZ802.

    Thank you Dodge and Martin for your help (and TheCrazy) :)
     
  23. martin 39

    martin 39
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    I dont think you will be disappointed. I only have standerd sky no hd as waiting to cancel. I find it fine for how little sky i watch since going 4k netflix and having a smart tv. God knows what people moan about with the panasonic smart system it seems to do everything i need at the touch of a button
     
  24. MrHavana

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    I guess a snazzier UI is a higher priority for some people. Others lament the remote control etc.

    As long as it does what I need, I'll be fine with it. I will admit that if there was a choice on setup between Panasonic's UI and WebOS like LG's, I'd click on the WebOS. It could be worse though; we could have built in ads like Samsung or slightly sluggish android implementation like Sony.

    TV arrived at lunchtime so I'm looking forward to setting it up this evening. I'm wall mounting it so I'm going to have to enlist my neighbour to lift it in to place. Fortunately, my bracket is rated to 80Kg. That may not sound like much compared to some brackets, but it's an adjustable bracket with a maximum projection of 60 or 70cm. That's a lot of weight to hold up at the equivalent of an arm's length.
     
  25. Dodgexander

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    The FZ802 has Freesat built in so either will handle the upscaling directly if you hook up your sat connection directly to the TV. That way you can see if it handles all the upscaling better itself rather than being fed by an external box.

    With an UHD model there are several things I do to avoid SD material;

    1. I use recording to record programmes that are available on one of the HD channels. Watching Coronation Street or similar is terrible on the ITV player as its such poor, poor quality. Keeping the recordings in 1080p is much better. Its the same to a lesser extent with BBC programmes but at least they are 720p and not SD quality like others. The iPlayer is the only platform that uses 720p and its 720p max which still looks soft upscaled to UHD. If you use the built in Freesat tuner with each TV you can record by connecting a USB hard drive or pen drive, you can of course still use your existing box or upgrade to one that supports at least 1080p upscaling if UHD ones are still not available. I cannot stress how terrible quality catch up TV is which is laughable when we live in this smart TV era.
    2. I try to watch content through online sources instead, even if only HD quality they tend to look a lot better than broadcast TV. If you can't stream UHD reliably then perhaps look to a platform where you can download the movie and watch offline.
    3. UHD Blu-Ray's - its definitely worth investing in them in my opinion, they look stunning and they are expensive but without access to UHD streams its a must. Even standard Blu-Ray discs look stunning upscaled as they are such high quality. Sometimes even a DVD can look reasonable as unlike broadcast SD, they are a lot higher quality.
    Other than that it sounds like your internet provider is really ripping you off with your fibre internet connection. I would look to change providers and perhaps go for the higher tier fibre internet if you can as not being able to get a steady 15mbps for UHD streaming is very poor for today's standards, let alone Now TV cutting out. There are providers who have to guarantee you get a certain speed and if your current one isn't one of them its worth a change. You simply should not be paying fibre prices if your internet is that bad.

    Having said that, also beware of home connection problems, don't use Wi-Fi and instead wire your sources to your router so you can ensure the issue with the connection dropping low is externally and not internally. You'll be surprised how many of your issues may be down to WiFi. Try changing your router if you find that wired directly the issues go away.

    You have to be gentle moving the TV but I think you'll be surprised how lightweight it is! Enjoy!

    Also just wanted to mention; forget about an AV receiver doing the upscaling. They are poorer than TVs even. Only the very, very high end ones may do a good job and at that price you may as well buy a designated scaler!
     

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