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Warranties....Themescene etc..

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Docta teef, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. Docta teef

    Docta teef
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    The other week i place a thread stating i had damage my h56 pj :(
    Thanks to the advice provided i decided to take it into seven oaks, despite the fact that i hadn't bought it from them where only too happy to help. They took a small deposit to sen it off and said they would contact me with the cost of repair before giving themescene the go ahead. They phoned a couple of ays later to tell me thtmtscene now charge a minimum fee of 450 quid to even look at a projector not under warranty, so even if a wire has worked loose and it takes 10 minutes to fix thats what you pay. Also this is not a flat fee if it needs more extensive work (above 450 quid) you will be charged more. Although i have been happy with my projector anyone thinking of buying a themescene should take this costing into account :thumbsdow
     
  2. RTFM

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    How old is your PJ ?

    If it's less than 3 yrs it should still be under warranty I think.

    Jeff :rtfm:
     
  3. Docta teef

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    I bought it off a forum member so though less than a year old dont think it is covered
     
  4. ntslik

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    All due respect Docta teef, I know it may seem a bit much, but it's quite harsh to warn people to keep this costing into account, at the time if i remember you and I discussed the purchase through us, of which you decided to buy a second hand one without the warranty of which you of course way up the savings you made buying second hand.

    Anyone buying a Themescene product from an authorised dealer will benefit from Themescene's outstanding 3 year warranty which in my opinion is one of the best services I have come across from a manufacturer
     
  5. theritz

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    If the projector is guaranteed for 3 years why isn't the guarantee transferrable to a second or third owner ? Afaik NEC transfer warranty within the guarantee period on a RTB basis (three years also in the case of the HT100 at least, iirc)

    Sean G.
     
  6. Docta teef

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    I see your point neil and as a themescene retailer i am well aware that you would take such a view. Ive not at all stated that i would expect to be covered however im only making other members aware of my situation lest thay find themselves in the same situation thats all. (By the way good memory as thats a year ago now)
     
  7. Gorshin

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    That is nothing less than an outrage, and a discraceful lack of respect for consumers.
     
  8. Daneel

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    £450 seems ridiculous to me. When I finally get around to buying a projector I think I'll avoid this brand on principle.

    Non-transferable warranties annoy me, any excuse to get out of a commitment to customers. It's too common a practice IMO.

    Thanks for the information Docta teef.
     
  9. Oakleyspatz

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    Have you checked for certain that the warranty is non-transferable? Maybe the original owner can send it in on your behalf, I'm sure you could cover the postage costs and something for his trouble that will be considerably less than £450 !
     
  10. AndyR

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    That's why I paid a bit more and went with Sim2.... when you see the MD of the company on this forum answering questions it tells you something in my book.
     
  11. Docta teef

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    To be honest even if i could get the warranty dont think it would matter. "whats wrong with?" "well i broke it" Dont think they would cover me for that and i wouldnt expect them to what i would expect is that they take it in have a look, say whats wrong, tell me how much they want to fix it and ask me if i want them to go ahead. Thats all i would ask
     
  12. TT9

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    I decided to go with them on picture quality . . . . . :D

    But on a serious note one must always pay attention to such small print when considering the purchase of any sensitive electronic equipment. It would seem we have Themescene toward one end, the transferable 20yr warranty of Bryston at the other, and everyone else somewhere inbetween.

    Actually, on the Sim2 point, my Domino30 recently suffered accidental damage during a furniture move. I explained all to the Sim2 MD and he was happy to fix up a polite discreet repair bill for the damage. The machine needs new parts, labour time, and total repair cost is not more than £70. Great service. . .
     
  13. progomez

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    You could always try and claim if you have accidental cover on your home insurance.
     
  14. Docta teef

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    Tried the insurance they said it comes under mechanical damage as it involved me tightening a fixing screw therefore not covered. Sevenoaks where kind enough to give me the number of a place that will have a look at it(without asking for cash up front)
     
  15. ntslik

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    Ok this thread needs to stop, I was so unawre how incorrect all of it was, as previously stated, you decided to make the big savings in the first place by buying second hand, and then complain about "Themescene" when you break it.

    Ok, firstly, I can't beleive you have never dealt with Themescene direct who! fact, would accept the unit out of warranty, expect the unit, quote you and await for a go ahead, once the repair is completed would return the unit to you. I suspect it's a case of Sevenoaks not having a clue what they are talking about, Themescene don't ask for any money up front and don't charge a penny until the goods are repaired.

    This thread needs to read potential Sevenoaks customers beware, utter incompetence, if I was you i would get to the bottom of this and find out why your being told this, (who would you have paid the 450 too????????), to confirm my info, I spoke directly to my Optoma's sales manager and the UK's sales Manager who both confirm you have been told a load of rubbish.
     
  16. theritz

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    Why ?

    Docateef already pointed out himself that he accepted responsibility for the damage to the projector, he relayed what he was told. If Docateef was misinformed of the arrangements for repair by someone else - big deal - he's also pointed out that he has found a source to deal with it without an up-front payment.


    The real issue here is why a Themescene projector with a "three year" warranty is only valid for the first owner - why can't the warranty be transferred ? I think it's perfectly valid to bring that fact to the attention of members here who are fed plenty of praise about Themescene, in particular by yourself.

    There's no logical reason why someone who, for instance, bought a Themescene projector and decided to upgrade six months later could not have the warranty transferred to the next owner.. other, perhaps, than to penalise the buyer for not having bought from a dealer. What's being guaranteed, the projector or the ownership of it? The reality is that if you're selling a six-month old projector with no warranty, then it's value will be considerably less than a projector which has 2.5 years of what you call "Themescene's outstanding 3 year warranty which in my opinion is one of the best services I have come across from a manufacturer" left on it. I think it is reasonable that potential Themescene buyers should be aware of the potential depreciation involved if they thought they might upgrade during the guarantee period.




    S.
     
  17. MaJong

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    Hi - (just a thought out loud) if you and the Themescene guys are discussing this why not conspire to take care of this guys problem?

    Keep the thread going to advertise on behalf of Themescene and it's professional dealers :D and amaze all us bystanders with the benevolent teamwork that kicks in when a Themescene user in distress is spotted..

    (pardon my interruption!)
     
  18. Ekko Star

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    Sounds like the guy has broken it so in or out of guarantee it probably wouldn't be covered anyway. It's not a manufacturing fault.

    However, it is shocking that £450 is an investigation fee plus parts and labour on top. As always read the small print and what the guarantee covers as well as the overall package you are buying including manufacturers servicing.

    Not a good advert at all for Themescene or Optoma but that doesn't mean the thread should be stopped either.
     
  19. theritz

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    Ekko,

    Neil (ntslik) has said that

    ... which is what you'd expect, but the issue of why the warranty is only for the first owner is not what I would expect - maybe Neil will come back and explain why the warranty is not transferrable.

    If I were buying a Themescene projector I would expect a dealer to make that condition of the warranty explicitly clear, so that I would understand the implications of it, should I want to upgrade at a later stage.


    Sean G.
     
  20. Docta teef

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    Tell you what then neil can you give me a contact number to speak to someone.This has not been placed with the intention of themescene bashing, me i just want my pj fixed, as sevenoaks where going to charge to send it off and ended up refunding me i certainly dont think that they are making it up but at the same time i dont see how they could get their facts so completely wrong.
     
  21. Docta teef

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    Also i would like to point out that i am not aware if themescene will pass over a warranty maybe neil can clear that up for everybody as it may well not be the case
     
  22. Ekko Star

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    Well if that is their policy it is truly absurd and undervalues the length of the warranty.

    Surely the product carries the warranty not the owner ? Wouldn't it be an insurance type policy otherwise ?

    The fact that the guy bought it 2nd hand is neither here or there. He should not be penalised for buying at a depreciated & market value. It's ridiculous to suggest that he made savings buying 2nd hand and that he should now pay for it because he did.

    I'm sure if they are a manufacturer that are worth their salt they can be contacted directly to sort something out....otherwise Themescene :suicide:
     
  23. theritz

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    Ekko,

    I asked the question about the warranty being transferrable in post #5 - there was no reply to my question.......

    In his response to Docateef, Neil said:

    If there is a saving buying secondhand because there is no warranty, then it stands to reason that the projector is worth less than it would be if it had the balance of the maunfacturers warranty (depending on the duration of remaining warranty, of course).

    It would appear that this arrangement would have more to do with protecting the dealer than the owner - the dealer get's the benefit of selling the projector at a price which includes the perceived value of the warranty, a benefit which the owner, having paid for it, is denied the opportunity to recoup. The dealer is also in a position to indicate that if you buy from him or her, you get a three year warranty, if you buy secondhand you get no guarantee, regardless of the age of the projector.

    I don't know for certain that every projector dealer/distributor/manufacturer will transfer the warranty - I know that NEC do, and would presume that it's standard practice. I would have thought that if there was a problem, a distributor/manufacturer would deal with it based on the date of sale of the projector - once you had the receipt to prove the date it was sold, then it should be covered by warranty.

    I hope some of the other dealers who frequent the forum will tell us what they know about warranty transfer.

    Sean.
     
  24. AndyR

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    I'll tell you one thing about Sevenoaks. I have Kef speakers and one went wrong, just outside of guarantee. Took it back to Sevenoaks and they wanted to charge me a fortune. I then phoned Kef and spoke to an engineer. He said the part was £9 and he would happily talk me through the repair over the phone. When I told Sevenoaks this, suddenly it was repaired for £20....
     
  25. ntslik

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    Hi,

    I'll keep this short, but can get further details on Monday when I am back in my office, my understanding of the situation is that this thread titled "themescene buyers beware" was started as Docta teef had purchased a second hand projector, of which had a fault and took the unit to Sevenoaks, then for what ever bizare reason Sevenoaks informed him he would have to pay 450 up front as they wouldn't even touch it with the payment. So with that information to hand the thread starts.

    The problem I have is, although Docta teef has said he didn't mean this thread to be having a go at Themescene
    he just wishes to get this sorted out, the thread even one person stating that due to this thread he would not purchase a Themescene projector. Yet Themescene have not done a thing wrong.

    The warranty as in almost all manufacturers is non-transferable, therefore this thread should not be attacking Themescne's warranty, one of the main reason being is that a fault arising during the second owners ownership could have arisen due to the first persons use, also the unit would not have been bought from an authorised dealer, the manufacturers have to stipulate this as they have to have a control on the dealerships that sell their own products, the dealership has to be of a certain standard, offer a standard of service and many more reasons. for example NAD hifi on their website states

    A WARNING TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS

    The warranty on NAD products is NOT VALID if the products have been purchased from an UNAUTHORIZED dealer, OR if the original factory serial number has been removed, defaced or replaced in any way. NAD is aware of instances in which such unauthorized dealer sales and/or serial number tampering has occurred. PROTECT YOUR WARRANTY. If you are not sure that a dealer is authorized, please check the Dealer Locator or with the NAD distributor in your country. Why buy only from authorized dealers?
    Find out here.

    This clause also extends to purchases bought second hand, i.e. not from an authorised dealer. The reason I feel it should be stopped is it contains to many incorrect facts and opinions of Themescene's warranty policy which are identical policies across some manufacturers.

    Despite my thread informing Docta teef that Optoma was more then happy to deal with him direct, a few post's later on Ekko star continues to say about the 450 being paid up front, so clearly people are still getting the wrong message.

    I would ask the question to Sevenoaks to how they got the information, as Optoma was amazed such comments were made and still couldn't understand why docta teef hadn't approached them direct, as I always advise customers of manfacturers i don't deal with, to contact the manufacturer for service information or local dealers that could deal with this kind of thing.

    Like I say i will keep this short as i do have further comments.

    Docta teef, I would be more then happy to help if you if need it, i just feel this thread has been taken out of context and don't feel the "Themescene buyer beware" a fair title.

    Docta teef speak to Roy on 01923 691 800 (Optoma) and keep me posted, I know that with threads like these being a retailer everything i say seems to get people believing that as I am a dealer "i am going to say that" but i stand firm on the service Themescene offers and rate it as one of the best in the industry
     
  26. KraGorn

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    Codswallop!

    If a fault develops on a machine due to misuse it will be excluded under the warranty full stop, it'd make no practical difference whether it fails when owned by the first or subsequent owners.

    Please don't try to justify restrictive terms and conditions imposed by manufacturers to help protect dealers' revenue streams by using specious arguments. Be a man and admit it's there to keep you in business, it has nothing to do with customer protection as you're trying to imply.

    Tell me, why should A/V equipment be different from, say, a motor car in terms of manufacturer's warranty transference?


    It's also false to say:

    I was told categorically when I sold my Sharp Z200E that Sharp WOULD HONOUR the warranty to the new owner.


    BTW, I own an H77, just so you know.
     
  27. Ekko Star

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    Ok thanks for that response Neil, it clears your stance on this a bit.

    However I would take issue with the Authorised Dealer bit and passing on of ownership. If I as a 1st buyer bought a PJ from an Authorised outlet and then decide to sell it on to someone. It is ridiculous to say that the second owner cannot benefit from the warranty because he has then bought it from an Unauthorised source. At the end of the day it WAS originally bought from a traceable and authorised source with valid serial number, receipts etc etc.

    If you buy an item with 12mths warranty on it and decide to sell it on 6mths down the line. Generally that item's warranty will still stand & be honoured by the manufacturer. It should only fail to be honoured once it is outside that 12mths period from date of original purchase.

    Why should Themescene's stance be any different apart from the fact it is 3 years ? If they are not prepared to honour this it adds little pro-longed value to an original owner. TBH it is as the Ritz says a bit misleading.

    I have had a Sanyo Z1 off these forums and that comes with a 2 year warranty. Sanyo had no issue with checking the Serial Number for date of manufacture and then continuing to look at it even though it was 2nd hand.

    If the fault IS caused by you breaking it, then I think most people understand that the warranty does NOT cover that. That's common sense.
     
  28. PJTX100

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    As the owner of a Hitachi I'd be happy with a 3 year warranty of any sort. Having said that, reading the 12 mth Hitachi warranty it seems to be transferable, and if you'd asked me beforehand whether most warranties on electrical goods were transferable I'd have said yes....PJ
     
  29. ntslik

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    I think this is half the problem, I simply don't feel the circumstances justify the title of this thread, I just find it frustrating that at times all of us are on this forum to chat, discuss and advise, from my stance the minute i mention something like the warranty policy being the same as most manufacturers I tend to get a loads of

    Yet we all ignore all the companys that do operate under those terms, we really if anything need to remain in focus in all of us debating the subject of the thread, which as I keep saying don't feel is justified, also this is not really getting Docta teef anywhere.

    I must say I am also a bit miffed that often when ever I post on this site, it seams being a retailer you all see me as the devil, no one has once said "nice one Neil for offering to help" it's just lets just pick at everything we can argue against and ignore the rest. I've offered my help to this, as I stand by Themescene being able to sort this out, i don't set terms and conditions and I don't always agree with terms and conditions, but all that aside, Docta teef has a unit which is faulty (due to his own fault I believe) which of course is not covered by the warranty. But I do believe that if people are going to choose to purchase goods second hand at a knocked down price, they need to check all the details first, rather then have issues later on and start a thread which comes across as it's all the manufacturers fault.

    I also said that i would check on monday as to the exact points, I know some manufacturers do offer a transfer of warranty, but at the same time many don't as we have come across this quite a few times. But what ever decision the manufacturer takes should surely not justify a load of negative responses when, really what bothers me the most, Docta teef has never once spoken to the manufacturer, he got upset of what was falsely being told to him and started this thread. Docta teef i'm not saying you were in the wrong, you appear to have been mis-informed and in turn i don't feel this thread and it's negative posts are justified.

    Last point, Kragorn, when I am making comments of my opinion on the reason behind terms and conditions I make valid points upon my experience and dealings within this industry and not trying to lay down the law, if you purchased a product tomorrow second hand and the manufacturer stated within the warranty that if purchased from a third party this would invalid the warranty, i don't believe the argument

    Codswallop!

    If a fault develops on a machine due to misuse it will be excluded under the warranty full stop, it'd make no practical difference whether it fails when owned by the first or subsequent owners.

    Would really much hold ground, Otherwise everyone under the sun would be buying 10,000 projectors to flog down their local market, with the full support and back up from the manufacturer, just don't make sense to me.

    When I spoke to Themescene about the comments being made that an up front fee of 450 is requested before they even look at units, Themescene couldn't understand why, and kept saying why the customer hadn't gone to Themescene, this is the whole point lets not sit around throwing posts back and forth just arguing ,not the post, but the sentences we can throw an argument back at, I have given Docta teef the contact details, I have offered to help, I'm not sure what else I can do. I await your cherry picking of certain words and response - a much deflated retailer.
     
  30. theritz

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    Neil,

    Inevitably when someone posts stuff people are going to pick certain bits to respond to.

    I don't see you as the devil, I see you as a retailer who is promoting a certain product and who is very protective of the Themescene brand and sensitive to any criticism of it.

    Well your initial response on this thread was to say:

    In other words, he bought secondhand instead of buying from you, no warranty. Where was the offer of help you referred to ?

    Iasked a straight question early on in this thread :

    to which no reply was forthcoming.

    It is understandable that a distributor will refuse to deal with waranty issues if a product is purchased from outside their exclusive selling area, other than in a case where aproduct has a worldwide or as is someties the case, a pan-European warranty. But if someone buys a Themescene projector for instance from yourself Neil, then why should the warranty be honoured if they sell the projector, say, here on the forums six months later ?

    Kragorn's response to your comment

    Is, imo, correct. We know that Sharp, Sanyo, Hitachi and NEC will honour their warranty if the projector has a second owner in the warranty period so that's hardly "all manufacturers" having the same policy as the one you espouse.. If you think that non-transferrability of warranty is justified, then you're entitled to hold and express that opinion, in the same way that others are entitled to hold and express a different opinion. After all we're here to chat, discuss and advise as opposed to toeing the line for any particular manufacturer.

    Regards,

    Sean.
     

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