WARNING: Run-in Procedures

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by fluxo, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. fluxo

    fluxo
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    Given a recent post in the GT50 thread I feel compelled to write this post. I am asking those who are considering running in their TVs unattended to think carefully about the risks involved.

    If you leave the TV showing a broadcast channel, you cannot be sure what will be shown. You really don't want to wake up one morning and discover that "We apologise for the interruption to this transmission ..." has been on the screen for an unknown number of hours. Equally, using run-in slides is not risk free either:

    "Of course, I woke up this morning to find the screen lit up bright green and the dvd player frozen."

    From: http://www.avsforum.com/t/608677/ma...thread-all-posts-here-only/2970#post_11953403

    "I came back the next morning to find the TVs stuck on the DVD's static title screen, which had been displaying on all three TVs for about 8 hours."

    From: http://m.cnet.com/news/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/57449881?ds=1

    "Last night I left a dark grey break in slide on for 7hrs in error. Basically I forgot to enable slideshow. Nothing else was on screen but I now have large patches and poor uniformity on light grey screens I didn't have before."

    From: http://www.avforums.com/forums/18554192-post97.html

    There may be little to be gained from using a run-in procedure. There has been no thorough investigation of the effects of the various run-in methods. Any supposed advantages are based on little more than guesswork. Please, ask yourself if it is worth the risk.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000
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    :laugh: I agree 100%, just use the set without high contrast and sharpness for a few weeks and avoid static images for ling periods.

    That Cnet article grates with me, they do the classic of mixing IR and burn, for such a good site its disappointing.:rolleyes:

    I have recently seen a couple of threads that may be burnt sets, but as far as Im aware getting burn in(not bad IR) either requires some effort or a faulty set.

    IR is simply part and parcel of the technology, at times it can be bad but Im guessing its due to some abuse or a over driven set of some sort.

    Burn is damage created by uneven wear over a long period of time.

    Id guess over several years of use a plasma will have some uneven wear, amount depending on its use and possibly the individual set.
    The sort of burn that's clear to see in my view is like the screens at stations where for months 24-7 the same text has been displayed with little variation.

    I does amuse me somewhat that some people insist on breaking a set in evenly with slides, what happens when you start using the thing:facepalm: pointless IMO.

    Just some thoughts, what you think?:)
     
  3. mtunreal69

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    I'm not really convinced about break-in slides. Panel's are never going to be operated in uniform patterns consistently, and the bulk of its life will be with "uneven" images.

    I appreciate the concept of wear on the phosphors, but the whole idea of the first few hundred hours seems fishy to me. The panel over its lifetime will get at least 10,000 hours if not more with uneven images throughout, which far outweighs the first hundred hours. The materials have already gone through a whole series of manufacturing processes and set-up processes in the factory. I think with how colours are mixed with plasma's allows even wear in the initial stages is probably good enough. The secret is to run them normal out of the box, as I think the panel is set up with bedding in pre-set. Obviously not sun-tan bright, but not overly dim. Just a personal preference with these things, I can't help but feel its a bit of a myth and something that keeps floating around without much reason to it. Bit like the fluff you hear about cables etc.

    It may be right and the best thing for the panel, but just doesn't convince me. I'm open to be proven wrong though.
     
  4. Scooby2000

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    Exactly.
    Simply displaying flat colour isnt actually doing a great deal anyway, Its like preparing to run a marathon by simply walking down to the shops every day.lol
     
  5. Aching Head

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    I haven't bothered with running in my GT50 and so far, so good. No I.R., no blobs and no buzzing.

    From the off, I have used THX Cinema for Blu and DVDs and Pro.1 for everything else. Pro.1 is more or less out of the box settings - Contrast 36, Brightness 30, Colour 30, Sharpness 2, C.A.T.S - Off, P-NR - Min, I.F.C. - Min, Pixel Orbiter - Auto.

    I guess you could say I am running it in by avoiding 2.35:1 and 4:3 material, plus bright banners and long periods on the browser are a no-no (don't play games), but other than that, I pretty much treat it like an ordinary telly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  6. k17chy

    k17chy
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    guess the 1000 hours of slides and normal tv before i got it calibrated was a waste of time then :facepalm: :rolleyes:
     
  7. rio1981

    rio1981
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    Never bothered running in my V10, just used common sense - had some mild IR after monster gaming sessions but apart from that, all fine.

    People are paranoid when they spend good money though, always looking for faults.
     
  8. fluxo

    fluxo
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    That is a very good point.
     
  9. Bigmac77

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    Agree pretty much with all the above, my GT50 has about 70 hours on it so far and yesterday I watched the six nations matches back to back, was a bit worried about the score causing IR but after nearly four hours there was no sign of it at all. Use it sensibly and everything should be fine.

    I never 'ran in' my V20 and now its got 4000+ hours on it and the picture is superb.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  10. stucarblne

    stucarblne
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    Don't think it was a complete waste of time as such.

    But an all white screen ages all the colors of phosphors quickly, and most importantly evenly in a fool proof manner.
     
  11. Scooby2000

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    Would that not depend on how accurate the white is to start with?. Not intending to be argumentative, but surely it has to be considered.
     
  12. Bumtious

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    An all white screen can, be useful for clearing minor retention, it does NOTHING to help with uneven wear.

    If you have uneven wear caused by frequent and excessive viewing of the same static content its going to take a long time to shift. And it is unlikely to happen with even with a few hours here and there. To be a stubborn problem its going to need to be hours on end of the same thing, like a frequently used game or a news channel without watching other moving content in between.

    Simply if you have a line 1% darker than the rest of the screen then with a white screen "ageing" the panel then its going to age the 1% darker line by the same amount. So nothing will change, watching normal content is the way to shift it.

    The OP is right and so is mtunreal69, and its pointless running any so called break in slides.

    Retention, uneven wear and burn are all different things. It is rare for a set to burn. Burn will be seen with the set off.
     
  13. stucarblne

    stucarblne
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    I meant from the off.

    Manufacturers age the screen in precisely this way. Personally i think it's more effective than slides.
     
  14. stucarblne

    stucarblne
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    It's what manufacturers use. It's also in service manuals.

    Internal service menu patterns are recommended. But if one has a calibration/test disk with all white that can be paused without leaving the pause logo on screen, just as good.

    Internal service menu all whites come in varying intensities. The service manual will tell you what one to use for clearing image retention, and the difference in the factory ageing one.

    I will be doing this again very soon... But will be using the least intensive one for 48hrs only. Before i watch anything, takes it along faster ready for a calibration also.
     
  15. Scooby2000

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    But still, if the white contains say more red than it should then its not going to age the set evenly. IMO it is pointless using slides as a screen will age un-evenly no matter what you do to start with, surely the best thing to do is simply watch moving content without logos or bars if you want to 'run in' a set avoiding any bad IR.

    To shift IR I use a scrolling bar and normal viewing, in the past I used noise(snow).
    I find having the pixels change does a better job than a uniform screen. Some IR even goes with the set off. I've done a lot of reading on the subject and have some practical experience now with several sets since the nightmare that was my PX80.

    Burn and IR are always mixed up I don't think most people know what burn actually is.
    Many also don't understand that IR will always be there no matter what you do, normal IR just isn't an issue and IMO many are either living in the past or simply go buy what they read in forums. So many have posted in a panicked tone "I have burn!" turns out at worse its bad IR or in some cases they've got their noses to the screen in a dark room.:facepalm:
     
  16. stucarblne

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    It's extremely difficult to get burn nowadays. Most times it's 'extreme' ir. But even so, extreme ir, takes an awfully long time to shift in a normal amount of time. Months, years if watching only a couple of hours a day. More 'extreme' methods needed usually. Personally i think the scroller screen wash on Pioneers is ****e. It only serves for the lightest ir imo. And if thats the case normal moving images should suffice in most cases.

    Few years back i got stubborn ir with a game hud. White screen cleared in one hour.

    Sorted.
     
  17. Scooby2000

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    Yeah sadly bad IR may as well be burn in some cases, read a few posts where its taken several months even with normal viewing.

    Don't know about the kuro bar but the one on my GT30 and D6900 does a great job, though I do run it for a few hours if I see any bad IR. Luckily I've had little problem recently.
     
  18. stucarblne

    stucarblne
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    With Pioneers, Sammy's and Panny's.and probably LG's also—after about 1000hrs there isn't really any need for these scrolling bar thingies imo. To get severe ir after that, something would need to be left on screen for probably 48 hrs perhaps with silly contrast levels, probably
     
  19. Scooby2000

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    Yeah I think people may be swapping sets a bit too soon, though can't blame them when there's the whole burn fear going round the internet. I try to reassure members but just know many don't listen as Im always saying burns unlikely and that's exactly what many think they have.:rolleyes:
    I was the same myself a few years back though to be fair, learnt a lot on here.:)

    What's the bold? One he'll of a typo lol.
     
  20. stucarblne

    stucarblne
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    I see what you mean.

    And also... Buying a new set (every new generation) is all good and well, but a plasma truly doesn't look it's best imho, until 2K plus hours. So it's entirely possible to keep buying "new" screens every gen and never see the one bought previously at it's smooth best sort of thing
     
  21. Scooby2000

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    We're agreeing far too much lol.
     
  22. Aching Head

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    Bloody hell! So you mean I have an even better picture to look forward to! :D
     
  23. stucarblne

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    :laugh:

    Especially with the longer lasting phosphors of the models from the last seven years or so. 12K hours for example and it's only a quarter at the very least into it's phosphor lifespan.

    I think if a couple of key components last to 40K hours it's doing well, industrial models included. And 40K hours is an awfully long time to have any one display
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  24. stucarblne

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    Definitely imho.

    Thing's get quieter and smoother looking as the hours build up. Especially noticeable after about 5K hours with HD
     
  25. Insanity202

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    I agree.
    Theres some folks who notice dfc on the pannys but ive found with age it decreases to the point its a rare site on my set. If I would have exchanged it then I bet the same amount of dfc will be there.
    Ir is a non issue for me too any i get shifts in seconds.
     
  26. stucarblne

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    With my new plasma i have now i am running internal factory all white screen for 30 minutes, switching off for one hour, then on for 30 minutes. Throughout the day if i have the time. Have only managed so far 16hrs of all white screen. I am putting 50 hours of this procedure on it :thumbup:
     

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