Warning for HDR gamers

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by Dodgexander, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    With the newly revised consoles being released soon everyone wants to jump the bandwagon and purchase a new HDR TV, before you do I thought I'd create this thread to help users understand why this may be a bad idea.

    Good TVs for gaming typically have two main factors that determine their suitability;
    1. Input Lag
    2. Motion Blur

    Typically for normal viewing, televisions apply processing to the picture to create a better viewing experience for normal content like films or TV for example. This processing increases the time it takes to display a picture on a TV and therefore introduces a lot of input lag. To reduce the input lag TV manufactures all have their own "Game Mode" setting. All game mode usually does is disable these processing features therefore speeding up the display of the image. In many cases game mode also affects other settings you cannot touch yourself, therefore for any gamer, game mode is essential.

    With HDR gaming this changes a lot. Today's televisions were manufactured before HDR consoles were released, therefore they didn't think how they would implement HDR for gamers.

    In the case of the Samsung KS7000 for example, this means that HDR mode cannot be used in its game mode. It can only be used in movie mode. For the Samsung this increases lag from 20.9 ms too 113.5 ms. Very noticeable to even casual gamers and especially bad for games requiring quick response, FPS shooters, football games etc.

    Thanks to @++ Jase ++ for his email from Samsung:
    So none of Samsungs UHD TV's will do HDR without reduced input lag. That is at least the KS7/8 and 9 series.

    Edit# updated news from Samsung in the form of a tweet. Thanks to @tazmago

    https://mobile.twitter.com/HDTVTest/status/77385927805051699

    So how will other TV's cope with HDR gaming? Who knows. I doubt even the manufactures do until they start to see users with problems, or we start to see HDR gamers on here with similar problems. What I can say is, don't buy a HDR TV now and expect HDR to work with game mode and certainly don't expect any manufacturer to update their TV to work around it. As far as we know there could be hardware limitations with HDR (such as LEDs having to get brighter) for HDR TV's that may mean that TVs will never reach a low input lag level with HDR enabled regardless of whether they work in game mode or not.

    Until we start to see reviews and users reporting back when playing HDR games on the new consoles we just won't know. Hold tight and weather the HDR storm, next year may be a better time to buy a HDR TV anyway with new TV's usually being released around spring time onward. There's more to a HDR TV than a SDR TV for gaming than I've been able to explain here anyway and I hope next year will give us a better choice of good HDR TV's that can actually display HDR well rather than just read the data at a lower price point.

    Edit# I'll try to compile links as I see them, but this so far seems to be a good resource for HDR gaming. They state the Panasonic models this year allow decent gaming lag even with HDR enabled: Digital Foundry: the best 4K TVs for HDR gaming

    I would say that their mid range and lower range recommendations are the best of perhaps a bad bunch. The Panasonic DX-750 and especially the DX-700 don't have good local dimming and don't get bright enough for a good HDR picture. They do a good job of reading HDR and displaying it on their panels but they don't have the hardware to show HDR as it's supposed to be seen. For this you need to spend a lot more.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  2. P Spredbury

    P Spredbury
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    Totally agree with you finding a TV that's going to do all this is going to cost alot of money.
     
  3. Indie.Jones80

    Indie.Jones80
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    Hi All,
    This is a very detailed link which includes lots of TV models :

    Input Lag of TVs

    Good luck all - I'm hoping to find out more info on the Sony KD55XD8577SU as the PS4 Pro is already on order!
     
  4. ninjag

    ninjag
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    I would guess that demand could be the driving factor? Although innovation can also be driven by manufacturers deciding what they feel we need and pushing it on the market, if one brand has a TV which is optimal for gamers and it starts making the big sales then surely good business sense will prevail and other manufacturers will want to compete?
     
  5. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    The whole situation is looking a bit brighter (pardon the pun). We have the Panasonic TV's which we know accept HDR in game mode with reduced lag.
    We have the Sony XD series that also display HDR in game mode with little lag (minus xd93)
    And Samsung have supposedly released there update so the KS TV's accept HDR in game mode with reduced lag.

    Its still a fragile market though, I anticipate there will be more issues as we see people gaming on the new consoles in the future, also with the PS4 HDR update just being released.
     
  6. Craig02

    Craig02
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    Thanks for posting this topic.

    I am sitting in a similar situation, I only bought my Sony TV (W705) in 2014 to go with my launch day PS4 but the PS4 Pro has sparked my interest but I know to really see the benefit I would really need a 4K & HDR TV.

    My room space dictates that I can only really get a 43" TV, Reading the reviews I like the look of the Sony XD8099 but I think I should wait for the Pro to come out / HDR content to become available on the original PS4 to see how the PS4 performs with the TV in real world experiences.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this?
     
  7. JC

    JC
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    Looks like the Samsung KS range is the best buy atm.

    Quote from the hdtvtest review of the 55KS8000 on 17/09/2016

    Lowest Input Lag including for HDR Games
    Since last year, Samsung has consistently produced the most responsive televisions for playing video games, and the UE55KS8000 carried on in the same vein. With [Game Mode] engaged, the display returned a crazy-fast figure of merely 21ms from a Leo Bodnar input lag tester.

    http://www.*/image/uhdtv/Samsung-UE55KS8000/lag.jpg http://www.*/image/uhdtv/Samsung-UE55KS8000/lag-hdr.jpg
    Input lag in SDR Input lag in HDR
    When we first calibrated a KS8000 several months ago, [Game Mode] was greyed out in HDR mode, but since then Samsung has rolled out a firmware update that allowed [Game Mode] to be switched on even during playback of HDR content. Indeed, lag time only rose a tiny bit to 22ms with [Game Mode] enabled when fed a video signal containing HDR metadata, which bodes well for playing HDR games from a Microsoft Xbox One S or PS4 Pro console. We watched a bunch of 4K Blu-rays and did some measurements in [Game Mode], and verified that HDR impact wasn’t watered-down in any significant manner (peak brightness 1200 nits).

    Samsung UE55KS8000 Review: HDR Game On
     
  8. ninjag

    ninjag
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    Maybe this is a daft question and I haven't Googled it but how come TV lag is so much more than computer monitors?
     
  9. Craig02

    Craig02
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    I went to a few places today to have a look at the TV's available, For the most part I was impressed with the Sony XD80 range.

    However I also seen the Samsungs and from what I seen I think I am now leaning more towards them. As I said previously due to my display unit / viewing distance I am looking at a 43" version. 4K is nice but really it is the HDR I am in it for.

    I have read the reviews I can find but does anyone have any opinions on the KS7500?
    Will this also be getting a firmware update for HDR Game mode?
    I would have preferred a flat screen but Samsung appear only to do them in larger sizes.

    The TV would predominately be used for gaming on a PS4 Pro and Xbox one.

    Thanks
    Craig
     
  10. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Image processing mainly.
    The KS7500 is the only TV at that size that will display HDR well. Theres no flat alternative at that size.The Sony XD80 TVs are good but they don't get bright enough nor do they have good enough local dimming for HDR.

    Yes the KS series has now received the update to display HDR with game mode on. The input lag is good.
     
  11. Craig02

    Craig02
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    Thanks yeah I have been searching it some more, Its a shame there is no flat panel. Its good to know the firmware update is out.

    Part of me thinks I should wait to see next years models but I also know that at least at launch they will probably be out of my budget...
     
  12. arj7

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    Very interesting thread, Il keep my eyes on this!

    I have a Samsung ue48ju7000 that is my main gaming screen, but with the lack of HDR Im a bit gutted. Was thinking about the PS4 pro and so on, I want a under £800 option for it
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016

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