Wait for Panasonic DMR-EH60?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by skyscaper, May 19, 2005.

  1. skyscaper

    skyscaper
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    I'm considering buying the Panasonic DMR-EH50, but wonder if I should wait for the DMR-EH60.

    I'll be recording from a Telewest Digital Cable box, so do the additional features, such as the integrated Freeview tuner, have any value to me?
     
  2. GadgetObsessed

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    skyscaper - I'm in a similar boat in that I will record from Sky+ and cannot even get Freeview so a digital tuner is of little use.

    However, if you can receive freeview then I would recommend waiting. From my experience of Sky+ which records the digital signal directly (i.e. recorded picture quality is the same as broadcast quality) the improved picture quality compared to recording an analogue signal is a significant advantage.

    The EH50 looks good but to me the main feature that it misses is DVin.
    Can anyone confirm if the EH60 has DVin?

    I think someone (Rasczak?) posted that the EH60 would be available as soon as July.

    Alternatively I'm considering getting the Sony 710 from pixmania. It has 160Gb HDD, DVin and costs about £380. (This is the French version if you wait till september then the UK version will have a digital tuner but may cost more.) According to http://www.btinternet.com/~james_lancaster/whichdvd.HTML#21 the Sony 510 (the model down from the 710) has the best playback PQ of any DVD recorder. Additionally if recording from an external source to the HDD the Sony has an HQ+ mode which is the highest quality recording mode available on any DVD recorder. (Disadvantage of this mode is that it uses alot of disk space and cannot be used for recording to DVD.)
     
  3. Rasczak

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    Panasonic have announced the model has now slipped to 'September'. That said it wouldn't surprise me if they do ship early.

    Yes it will do. It's effectively the replacement for the DMR-E95.

    I agree. However I should point out it is currently unknown if the Panasonic employs an 'all digital' recording process. For all we know at this stage it could just be an integrated Freeview box using an D>A>D process! Sony employ an all digital process and it shows - I hope Panny follows the same route.

    Without a doubt. The Sony range are excellent performers - I look forward to seeing the HDMi, upscaling of the 1010.
     
  4. robert_cyrus

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    eh60 looks like the one box solution for me.

    certainly convenient, having freeview built in, but then again i can get a DVDR/HDD like the sony 510 now, and use my existing freeview box. would just mean programming them both separately ? would just slot/connect in where my VHS is now.

    any particular additional advantage in have an integrated DRDV/HDD/Freeview ?

    ah, i remember the -ve on the sony now, moving 2hrs 5 mins from HDD to DVDR records at 3 hour programme compression, whereas the panasonics squeeze to fit.
     
  5. redsox_mark

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    The current Sony 510/710/910 range has more quality settings (8 of them; e.g there is a 2.5 hour mode as well as 2 and 3 hours). Still not as flexible as the Panasonic (or Toshiba/Pioneer), but better than the previous models.

    Mark
     
  6. will-wac

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    Panasonic sent me an email saying

    "In response, we have no plans to release the DMREH60 in the UK at the present time."

    Does this still mean they will release it??
     
  7. skyscaper

    skyscaper
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    I believe someone somewhere on the forum said that having an integrated digital receiver would remove the D-to-A and A-to-D conversions required to record digital broadcasts on a DVD recorder with an analogue receiver.

    I'm sure Rasczak will clarify :).
     
  8. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Rasczak already answered this in this thread - yes it could mean a totally digital conversion (and that's what Sony has done). It isn't known how Panasonic will implement this. I.e. if they kept the current "architecture" of the EH50 and simply replaced the analogue tuner with Freeview, then there would still be a D-A-D conversion.

    Mark
     
  9. Rasczak

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    It is coming I assure you. The model number may be changed (to avoid confusion with the international analogue EH60) but it is coming. Panasonic UK not knowing what products are on the horizon is nothing new. I doubt staff are briefed on new models until they are required to support them.
     
  10. rogerh

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    I've been waiting for the Sony machines for what seems like forever now.
    However I'm interested to see that consensus here is moving towards the Panasonic machine having not only the same features, but also the potential to deliver the same picture quality.
    If that's true then we can all hope that at last competition in the market will ensure that when these machines arrive we don't have to sit and wait while the initial launch ( OVER)- pricing gets down to a more reasonable figure!
    Yes I know they always go down with time, but it's the grab megabucks with the initial price and then start dropping about 6 weeks later that I'm talking about.
    On the other hand I expect we should be grateful that it's only taken a few years for manufacturers to get round to decent specs!
    Should be a great Autumn of releases :thumbsup:
     
  11. will-wac

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    Thanks Rasczak :thumbsup:

    Still wondering why no one has launched a DVD/HDD recorder with freeview built-in :( .
     
  12. rogerh

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    Following on from my comments about pricing, I see that the French RDR-HX910 is now available from Sony dealers at 999 Euros (about £675). Be intersting to see what the UK price is on both the Sony and the competing models.
     
  13. Nick_UK

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    Because products are made for mass markets, and Freeview is unique to the UK. That would severely limit the numbers sold.
     
  14. YvesC

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    The DMR-EH60 (as well as the EH20) has been announced in Germany : www.areadvd.de

    The only differences with the EH50 seem to be a larger HD (200GB) and iLink
    Price : 699 €

    Still no Double Layer support :mad:

    I cannot wait to read the first reviews about the new Pioneer DVR-530, I think this is the one I will be going for...

    Yves
     
  15. Rasczak

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    Pioneer are yet to produce a 'killer' DVD recorder - and from the specs/looks of the 530 I don't think they are going to achieve it this time either. But as always it's a question of wait and see.

    ...and LPCM recording. The UK is getting custom versions of these recorders.
     
  16. Oldjim

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    Given the apparent shambles of the Panasonic TUCTH100 I wonder whether it is worth waiting for an integrated digital tuner or should I just get the EH50 and a separate set top box. Alternatively is there any possibility of getting the international version of the EH60 in the UK
     
  17. Rasczak

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    I think the question is more "given the shambles of the TUCTH100 is it worth waiting for Panasonic DVB models?". Guess we'll have to wait and see - although the Guideplus implementation on the US models is less than impressive so I'm not too optimistic...
     
  18. Tony McKenzie

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    Hi OldJim

    I would echo your question re the EH60. I have been watching various discussions about the merits of different machines over each other. As a complete AV newbie ( have just moved to a Philips plaftscreen CRT! from an old Hitachi goldfish bowl!) I am getting more and more baffled rather than enlightened.

    I have no freeview (but am in a good reception area). I have no current DVD player. I have no 5.1. I have no idea about most of the discussions contained within this Forum (but need to start learning, obviously).

    I would like to get freeview (but not sky+). I would like to record programmes to hard drive (for easy find/watching rather than rumaging through tapes/discs). I would like to keep some programmes for posterity.

    My budget is approx. £500.

    Does anyone have a view on whether the EH60 would be a good bet for me or whether there is an alternative worth considering?

    Sorry if this sounds rather simplistic but this is my first faltering footstep into the mystifying/wonderous world of AV. God help me!

    Thanks in advance

    Tony
     
  19. GadgetObsessed

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    Tony – if you live in a Freeview reception area then I would recommend getting a recorder with a Freeview tuner.

    One option may be to buy a Freeview PVR and a separate DVD recorder. Many Freeview PVRs have 2 Freeview tuners built in – so they can record two channels at the same time or watch one channel while recording another, etc. These type of boxes are pretty cheap e.g. Thomson 4000 is about £160. I bought one for my parents and they find it very easy to use. You could then buy a separate DVD recorder such as the Panny ES10 (about £175) to archive to DVD. The total would be well within your £500 budget.

    Alternatively you could wait for the Panny EH60 or other Freeview DVD recorders which also seem to be coming out around September. I believe that the EH60 will have one Freeview tuner and one analogue tuner. You won’t be able to record 2 Freeview chanels at the same time or watch one and record another, etc, as you would with a PVR but you will be able to record straight to DVD from Freeview. Whether this is worth waiting for will depend for me on its premium over the EH50. The EH50 can be bought for about £290. Unbeatable are listing the Freeview equipped ES20 for £100 more than the ES10. Given that the EH60 also has a bigger HDD than the EH50 and a DVin socket I would expect the street price of the EH60 to be at least £150 more than the EH50 – which would probably still be within your budget.
     
  20. Oldjim

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    In the end I went for the EH50 and a separate Freeview tuner for a number of reasons.
    I didn't want to wait until September
    More important - I am in a lousy Freeview reception area and I need a very good box.
    With the problems reported with the TUCTH100 I don't have much confidence in Panasonic's ability to integrate a digital tuner and record the digital signal direct.
    If it did record the digital signal direct I don't know how/if it would be able to record from an external source such as my dying VHS
    I went for the Echostar T101+ as it has a 7 day epg and is very good with poor signal strength/quality. Also cheap and as I needed three boxes that was also a factor.
    Up to now I have had no problems and setting the recordings on two boxes is really not a problem
     
  21. Bengan

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    Has someone confirmed (100%) that the DMR-ES20 and the DMR-EH60 will have freeview digital tuner (toghether with analogue) in UK.
    In Sweden and German it hasn't, although we have free digital broadcasts in Sweden.
     
  22. Merlin

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    There is some confusion here as to whether or not the eh60 has dv in...
    YvesC says
    <The DMR-EH60 (as well as the EH20) has been announced in Germany : www.areadvd.de

    The only differences with the EH50 seem to be a larger HD (200GB) and iLink
    Price : 699 € >

    so no DV in there,

    then garydhooper says
    <Given that the EH60 also has a bigger HDD than the EH50 and a DVin socket>

    So what is the final verdict on this DV in for the EH60?

    How useful is DV IN for my MiniDV camcorder I wonder given that I capture my MiniDV avi footage onto PC via firewire/Adobe Premiere and edit videos in that prog ?

    Now my dilemma…have I thought out the following correctly or missed something ?

    I need to capture vhs and betamax to my DVD/HDD combo so analog tuning is required there, would there be a digituner capable of seeing all telewest progs and analog tuner in one unit …namely the EH60 ?

    I am currently with a Telewest Pace 4000 digibox. Telewest are sometime bringing out a timer function box with HDD, which they tell me could be set to select channels in my absence and I could have the Panasonic EH50 record the channels, if I also set the same record start times on that as well. Thus waiting for a tuner capable of selecting digital channels in my absence perhaps in the EH60, isn’t vital if I want timer recordings of my telewest obtained progs. However, a digital tuner would skip the Digital-analog-digital conversion that would be happening with the EH50, digital throughout must surely maximise quality ? …but OldJim says Panasonics digital tuner ability could be poor given their track record so far, need wait and see, but from what Garydhooper says there will be no full blown digituner capable of all Telewests channels anyway, just the freeview ones ?
    He says <I believe that the EH60 will have one Freeview tuner and one analogue tuner>
    Telewest say I am able to see these freeview channels via their PACE box as part of my package so I don’t need freeview tuning as such.

    In all then it looks like analog is best and thus go for EH50 on that count, unless I want more HDD space.

    Does this all add up or have I missed something ? :confused:

    I was about to go for the E95 then held out for multiformat support of the EH50, (will less HD space be a problem ?) and now ponder on even more waiting for the EH60, but will my VHS and space permit more crummy vhs recording ?

    How does D-A-D conversion compare to all D ?

    Decisions decisions ! :rolleyes:

    Merlin
     
  23. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    I-Link and DV-in are the same thing (as is Firewire).

    If you edit your DV on a PC, and want to continue to have more advanced editing capabilities, then you probably won't use the DV-in very much. I do all my "serious" editing of DV on the PC. I do find the DV in useful if I want to quickly do some basic editing and create a DVD.

    Mark
     
  24. Merlin

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    Mark,
    :oops: yes ILink is DV in. I also am told by Panasonic that the HDD on the EH60 is to be 160Gb, not 200 as someone said.
    There will be both digital and analog tuner, then reading elsewhere the Panasonic rep saw Freeview tuner, now will that freeview tuner cope with all of the Telewest digibox channels, this is my query. If not then the only advantage to me of the EH60 is 160Gb versus 80Gb. They need to make that clear else peeps will buy it thinking they can record without D-A-D conversion from cable TV.

    I wonder however if the EH50 drops any functions of the E95, which are reintroduced with the EH60 ?

    September is mentioned as release for EH60.

    I also see that the Eh50 has no VR mode DVD-RW recording, :eek: bit rusty here, I wish to get footage onto PC for editing, is VR mode best for this, mpeg being no use for editing ?
    Having waited for at least the EH50 to appear to have choice other than DVD-RAM, am I still no better of in this respect, i.e. still will need to use DVD-RAM and thus hope PC is compatible ? Will EH60 have VR support with DVD-RW ?

    Merlin
     
  25. ArtS

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    EH60 is the same as EH50 but have DV In (also called iLink or Firewire). German version have 200 GB HDD. DVD-RW doesn't have VR mode. VR mode is available for DVD-RAM only!
     
  26. Merlin

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    ArtS,
    Guess I inferred from the review of the EH50 the wrong thing, it said under the Whats Bad section just one thing, ' No VR mode DVD RW recording' so I took that to mean it was possible but not with the EH50, else why list it as bad.

    If I wish to take recording onto my PC for editing in Premiere, what formats can I use (VR and what else ?) and what are my options with the EH50, I am not sure if PC accepts DVD-RAM but somewhere also got misinformed that VR could use DVD-RW, one reason I waited for the EH50 when about to go for the E95.

    E95 is now discontinued I see yet the EH50 has only half its Gb :rolleyes: . September for the EH60 is a long time to carry on with VHS but July (as some talk of) is better, though waiting sees a price drop so July read August, or Sept read Oct, cannot wait that long !

    Would that digital tuner play ball with all telewest channels though ?

    Merlin
     
  27. GagHalfrunt

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    A freeview digital tuner would not work with Telewest.

    Telewest would just appear as an analogue AV IN input and if possible you'd want a DVD Recorder that will be able to control your Telewest box to change the channels on it for you.
     
  28. ArtS

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    Hi Merlin

    I don't know (yet, I will check) if Premiere can accept VOB files (Video Mode) without demuxing them first. After demuxing it can. For demuxing you can use DVDDecrypter or SmartRipper. These programs could separate VOB files into elementary MPEG stream and AC3 (or WAV) stream, which could be imported by Premiere.

    ArtS
     
  29. Merlin

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    Gaghalfrunt, Thanks, so its the Telewest box for channel changing when it ever comes, but still stuck with D-A-D conversion then.

    ArtS,
    VOB, demuxxing, I am learning all the time ! :lesson:
    I gather from Panasonic that this might have the edge over VR for transfer of footage to PC, VR mode can be written with the EH50, it must be +VR to a DVD+RW , deleted space only gets combined with adjacent space though.

    VR footage can go straight onto PC, unlike the need to demux VOB, but quality may be a tad better.

    EH60 only advantage is 160Gb and Sept, too long a wait perhaps, also they say no fan noise, nothing they have noticed. :)

    Guess its the EH50 then :D

    Merlin
     
  30. dicky

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    Hi Merlin
    The EH50 does not wrtie to +RW
     

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