VW ID3 Thoughts

[Spooksta]

Decided against an i3. So what’s next.

The deposit for a VW ID looks like my next attempt at going BEV.
Anyone else going this route.
I’ve heard late 2019 delivery and March 2020. No idea which is correct.

Online deposit website goes live May 8th 2019.

 

[gangzoom]

I would be utterly amazed if VW deliver any IDs to customer's by 2021 left alone this year.

Battery costs are simply still to high, the up and coming Porsche EV will have a 90kWh pack with an estimated price of around £90k by the time its optioned up. The Audi eTron has been shown in producton form for nearly 12 months, and still only been delivered in tiny numbers with £80k pricing on 90kWh pack.

VW is saying the ID will have 48kWh for £20k, sorry thats just not going to happen. Hyundai/Kia are selling 64kWh EVs for £30k almost certainly as loss leaders, hence limited numbers. But the ID will be mass produced and VAG cannot afford to loss money on them.

Similarly Tesla still havent build a single $35k Model 3 with a 55kWh battery.

 

[Delvey]

I have read the concept would be ready in 2020, so actual production will probably be 2021 or 2022 at a minimum. As gangzoom has said, unless battery technology significantly improves in a year or two, or the raw material costs plummet, then they are dreaming of 48kWh for £20k.
Model 3 or Y depending on budget, the Kia or Hyundai if you can wait.
Or possibly the E golf

 

[Spooksta]

Are we talking about the same thing. Everywhere says.

• Online deposits from 8th May
• September is first reveal of final production ready car.
• Expected delivery date March 2020

Has been undergoing testing for months.
Cost will match a Diesel Golf for the entry level. The car is essentially ready to go once winter testing is complete.
Mid range was expected to be 250 mile range but testing proved to be 280 mile.
With VWs recent foul play with emissions and mpg I would expect they will be careful not to over estimate these details. Here’s hoping.

 

[Delvey]

Are we talking about the same thing. Everywhere says.

• Online deposits from 8th May
• September is first reveal of final production ready car.
• Expected delivery date March 2020

Has been undergoing testing for months.
Cost will match a Diesel Golf for the entry level. The car is essentially ready to go once winter testing is complete.
Mid range was expected to be 250 mile range but testing proved to be 280 mile.
With VWs recent foul play with emissions and mpg I would expect they will be careful not to over estimate these details. Here’s hoping.

My bad. Expected delivery is in a year? I actually hope so but cannot see it. Manufacturing a brand new product isn't straight forward, look at the issues Tesla had with the model 3, yet had been producing the Model X for a while.

 

[IronGiant]

ID Buzz: 8 Seater "campervan" with a 600 mile range, I'm saving my pennies...

 

[gangzoom]

Are we talking about the same thing. Everywhere says.

• Online deposits from 8th May
• September is first reveal of final production ready car.
• Expected delivery date March 2020

Has been undergoing testing for months.
Cost will match a Diesel Golf for the entry level. The car is essentially ready to go once winter testing is complete.
Mid range was expected to be 250 mile range but testing proved to be 280 mile.
With VWs recent foul play with emissions and mpg I would expect they will be careful not to over estimate these details. Here’s hoping.

Oh look a flying pig....

£80k Audi eTron which still isn't been delivered to customers has an EPA range of 200 miles, so a VAG hatchback with 280 miles of range for £20k seems just a tad unlikely.

 

[Spooksta]

20k is the low end range. 200

 

[Spooksta]

Oh look a flying pig....

£80k Audi eTron which still isn't been delivered to customers has an EPA range of 200 miles, so a VAG hatchback with 280 miles of range for £20k seems just a tad unlikely.

Your comparing apples and bananas.
Also
It’s been 4-5 years since the i3 came out with 60 mile range.
I can see a similar situation to the hard drive in PCs
Year 2005 - 200GB drives
5 years later 1-2 TB drives

We we all be shocked what’s just round the corner now big companies are throwing money in.

 

[gangzoom]

Your comparing apples and bananas.
Also
It’s been 4-5 years since the i3 came out with 60 mile range.
I can see a similar situation to the hard drive in PCs
Year 2005 - 200GB drives
5 years later 1-2 TB drives

We we all be shocked what’s just round the corner now big companies are throwing money in.

I hope your right. I've been driving an EV since 2015, I've seen so many promises broken and very few companies have deliveried products in the real world.

Audi is part of the VAG group, I would be astounded if VW sells you an EV that will do 280 mile for half the price Audi wants for the eTron quattro by next year. Again I point out the £80k 200 mile range eTrob still isnt been delivered to customers.

Tesla with all their pressure from the media to make a $35k Model 3 still haven't built a single one.

We'll wait and see, if you do get a VW ID on the driveway by next year than that would be fab .

 

[Trollslayer]

We need that next battery generation and that is quite a way off or a practical hydrogen based solution.
Much as I would like an alternative to fossil fuels for transport it isn't there yet.

 

[Delvey]

Your comparing apples and bananas.
Also
It’s been 4-5 years since the i3 came out with 60 mile range.
I can see a similar situation to the hard drive in PCs
Year 2005 - 200GB drives
5 years later 1-2 TB drives

We we all be shocked what’s just round the corner now big companies are throwing money in.

It is a little bit different to hard drives however.
More battery capacity is available now, in fact you could have a 400 mile range battery.
The issue is weight, and a little bit motor efficiency. If you increase the range of the battery by 100 miles say, then 50 miles of that will be lost due to the added weight of the battery (more weight = more energy required to move said weight = less range), this is just a wild guess, but until newer battery technology becomes available (which will occur, due to increase in EV popularity) then the range will be limited by the weight of the battery, and not much else

 

[Trollslayer]

I've been off work with the flu with time on my hands and took a quick look.
The VW eUP has a range of 66 miles and has a list price of £23k. Even with subsidy that is nearly £20k.

 

[Spooksta]

It is a little bit different to hard drives however.

Not really. There getting clever now the science bods are looking at it more closely. Same happened with HD storage. Multi layer platters. Double sided. All simple ideas.
The ID uses new type of batteries but not Lithium-air batteries. They are the next big jump it seems.

 

[Trollslayer]

It is an improved Lithium-ion battery with increased nickel content:
The ID. Battery from Volkswagen

 

[Delvey]

Not really. There getting clever now the science bods are looking at it more closely. Same happened with HD storage. Multi layer platters. Double sided. All simple ideas.
The ID uses new type of batteries but not Lithium-air batteries. They are the next big jump it seems.

It is an improved Lithium-ion battery with increased nickel content:
The ID. Battery from Volkswagen

 

[Spooksta]

 

[Spooksta]

 

[IronGiant]

 

[Trollslayer]

View attachment 1138204

ARRRRRRRRRRRGH! MY EYES!!!!!

 

[gangzoom]

I've been off work with the flu with time on my hands and took a quick look.
The VW eUP has a range of 66 miles and has a list price of £23k. Even with subsidy that is nearly £20k.

Exactly, and yet the PR material will have you believe in a few months VW will sell you an ID with 4 times the range and for less money....

 

[Trollslayer]

At least they aren't advertising driver assist software as an auto pilot.

 

[Trollslayer]

I also looked at second hand electric cars - an eUP (the Yorkshire car) at £13k!

 

[Spooksta]

Exactly, and yet the PR material will have you believe in a few months VW will sell you an ID with 4 times the range and for less money....

“In September 2016, Volkswagen presented the first I.D. study at the Paris Salon. 24 months later, the all-electric Volkswagen is approaching production readiness at high speed. With scalable ranges at the level of today's petrol engines and the price level of current diesel, the ID. has the potential to initiate the breakthrough for environmentally friendly electric mobility and thus a new drive era.”

You never know. Have a bit of faith

 

[Trollslayer]

Forgive my cynicism.