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vpl w12ht vs lhs10

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by dpc, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. dpc

    dpc
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    new to this need sad person needs some advice. am looking to buy my first projector and considering these sony models HS10 or VPL-VW12HT. can anyone advise comparing these machines good, bad, indifferent. don,t want to make a major boo boo. The machine will be used to watch everything dvds, vhs sky and TV.

    Finally just to confuse myself further from reading WHC, the themescene H55. what about this compared to above. What to do, can someone please help me make up my mind!!

    What size picture do u think I could get from a distance of about 14ft from screen to projector.

    Need to get this right otherwise sleeping in spare bedroom!!!
     
  2. museumsteve

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    I have an HS-10 and think it's great, but I wouldn't have thought they were really to be compared. The price difference alone should tell you that these two are not the same..
    Seems funny to choose between two PJs with such a difference in price..if I had the cash when I bought the HS-10 I would have bought a 12HT without question..
     
  3. petrolhead

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    I un
    I dissagree. The HS10 maybe just as good so why pay the extra


    Why?
     
  4. museumsteve

    museumsteve
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    my understanding:-

    Brighter
    Better set of inputs
    Better blacks
    Better scaler

    I'll have a nose around..I@;m sure I've read that the overall optics on the 12ht are superior to most LCDs (especially at a lower price)
     
  5. jaybeegee

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    I had both demoed on monday - while i was waiting for the hs10 to come in from the dealers other shop , had a good look at the 12ht and also toshiba mt5. 12ht better by mile then mt5. The hs10 came in 15 mins before closing time so ....
    as a total novice i dont even know the lingo involved . all i can say is that i bought the hs10 because the same pictures were brighter. in the dark scenes the 12ht shows more detail . i couldn't justify the price difference. i will be using it in my lounge with not a dedicated dark room so the brightness is crucial. home cinema choice gave an excellent review to the 12ht.
    jaybeegee
     
  6. cine king

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    The HS10 is VERY good-for the money its brilliant.-nothing will touch it in that price range..

    The difference with the 12HT is more apparent via p.c. and with high quality mastered dvd`s -a little more detail-and better blacks.

    I also think the 12HT smoother.

    Another great projector is the Nec HT1000 -which isnt far off the Sony 12ht.

    ..Not as smooth though..
    CK.
     
  7. joe davis

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  8. spiderv6

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    I read on avsforum that Sony has officially(?) dropped the price of the vw12ht.

    If you look around you will see the prices are staring to fall to around £3K. There are still HUGE variations but I think (guess) that's because it's a recent announcement and the others haven't caught up yet. The price falls seem to be reflected across Europe if you search.

    Seems weird that Sony would drop the price to only a few hundred pounds from the HS10. Either the vw13ht is around the corner or they over priced it to start with.
     
  9. John_N

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    The £3000 for the 12HT sounds like good value.

    The only other unit that comes to mind is the updated Epson TW-100 which I understand is a better unit than both the HS10 and the VW-12HT from the review in projectorcentral.

    J
     
  10. Tibbsy

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  11. spiderv6

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    I just bought one for £2,660 inc. dead pixel check, delivery and 10m component cable.

    It was just too hard to resist at that price.......

    The next option on my list was a HT200DMF but that's more than double the price. Now I can buy a very nice PS DVD player and still be quids in.



    :laugh:
     
  12. John_N

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    SpiderV6

    Did you get the VPL-Vw12HT for that price? and if so - from which supplier?

    J
     
  13. spiderv6

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    John_N

    Yep, 3,990 Eu's (@1.5=£2,660) from www.big-screen.de who are a reputable bricks and mortar company in Berlin. They ship Europe wide and I had no problem emailing them in English.

    They don't accept credit cards (which is extremely common in Germany - not a sign that they are dodgy!) so you have to transfer cash - or grab a cheap flight and buy it in person if you are worried.

    I'll post once I receive my unit (only ordered late yesterday) and let you know how it works out.
     
  14. Cornelius

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    Fantastic bargain!
    Might be tempted to take short trip myself. ;)

    CKA.
     
  15. John_N

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    The HS10 does have one advantage of the 12HT... A DVI port on the back panel.

    I understand that after calibration the 12HT is about the same brightness as the HS10. Where the 12Ht has the edge is in contrast, black level and shadow detail, where it is an improvement.

    However. That said, with a budget of say £3000, I personally would be looking at the NEC HT1000 and the Epson TW100 as competitors to the Sony 12HT.

    John
     
  16. Tibbsy

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    I'm thinking of buying a projector at that price range (£3,000) so would be interested to hear views on how the Sony matches the NEC machine.

    Regards, Tibbsy
     
  17. John_N

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    The NEC is a DLP based machine and has the edge when it comes to contrast & black level over the sony. It also has a significantly quieter fan.

    The sony has a higher resolution panel.

    When producing a 16:9 image, the NEC will use 1024 * 576 pixels. (The NEC is a 4:3 panel natively)

    The sony will use 1368 * 768 so many more pixels since it is a 16:9 panel.

    That being said, there are only 576 active lines in a PAL DVD or PAL broadcast so technically there should not be too much difference between them. However, the reality of the situation is that more pixels = more latitude for the de-interlacer/scaler and so probably results in a slightly more detailed image.

    The NEC is DLP based with a 2* 6 segment colour wheel. This equates to a 4* refresh rate.

    The Sony is LCD based.

    Some people prefer one technology rather than the other. They both have good and bad points.

    I would be interesting in seeing a side-by-side comparison of the new Epson TW100, NEC HT1000 and Sony VPL-Vw12HT.
     
  18. Tibbsy

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    Thanks John.

    I think that a DLP projector would better suit my needs as I'm going to be using the projector in a fairly small dedicated basement room, with no ambient light problems. My viewing postion will be less than 3m from the screen and close to the projector. Fan noise and the potental screendoor effect from being close to the screen had put me off looking at LCD projectors.

    Thing is, the more I find out the more undecided I become. I'm now considering LCD projectors even though I had previously dismissed them because of the reasons given above.

    I have been looking at NEC's HT1000, but after reading what Messiah had to say I think I'll keep my powder dry and wait for some feed back on Optoma's H56.
     
  19. John_N

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    I would ignore the screendoor issue with the WXGA class LCD projectors such as the Sony HS10, VW12HT and the Epson TW100. For all practical purposes, they look the same.

    I use a sony HS10 in my small viewing room. The room is about 330cm from screen to projector and about 400cm wide. The screen is 180cm wide and is 280cm from my eyes when sitting on the settee. The projector is 150cm directly above my head, on a shelf above the settee, firing at the screen which is 290cm from the lens.

    In this position, I can see no pixel structure on the screen. I can only see pixels if I stand literally about 2 feet from the screen. I wouldn't worry about that.

    LCD projectors tend to be brighter and more efficient than DLP. Most high output projectors above 2500 ANSI tend to be LCD. It is also not true to say that LCD units tend to have noisier fans - this is not true either.

    The fan noise on the HS10 is louder than I would want it to be.

    If my HS10 goes faulty again, I will seriously consider swapping it out for an alternative model (but more expensive).

    The model I would choose would be:

    Sony VPL Vw!2HT (LCD, quieter fan than HS10, better black level and contrast)
    Epson TW100 (ditto)
    NEC HT1000 (DLP but rainbow effect problems. Quiet fan)

    I don't know much about the Optoma H56. I was the H50 and there were rainbows everywhere (it only has a 2* colour wheel). For me it was unwatchable. For a DLP unit, you want to be very careful to make sure you can watch it without getting rainbows.
     
  20. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Just to add that when I had the HT1000 on demo I saw not one rainbow - and that was not for the lack of trying. When I first saw DLP pjs I viewed the SIM2 HT200 and Yamaha DXP1 amongst others and they were plagued with the dreaded effect but no matter what I did (blinking, moving, shaking my head on all sorts of material - DVD, Sky, end film credits etc) I did not see one on the HT.

    So, whilst I recognise this is very subjective I would certainly recommend you do not discount it without seeing it on this effect alone. Now, sharpness on the HT1000 is another thing altogether :(
     
  21. John_N

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    I've just read my previous post and its a bit mis-leading.

    Let me edit my remark to:

    NEC HT1000 (DLP and therefore the possibility of rainbow effects).

    From the rave reviews, I think the HT1000 is a definite contender. If you don't get headache and strain etc then the HT1000 is probably one of the better units out there.

    The HT1000 has a 2 * 6 segment wheel so this is 4 * refresh on the colours. Not as fast as the sharp DLP (sharp 9000?) that has a 3 * 2 segment = 6 * refresh but still impressive.

    If the HT1000 was available with a 1368 * 768 DLP then that would be a real giant killer....

    J
     
  22. calscot

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    Projector central gave a great review for the updates TW100 - 800:1 contrast ratio and price cut. They now sell for under $4.5K in the states.

    It says that all the specs are conservative and after calibration it's 50% brighter than both the Sony's and has better shaddow detail.

    They reckon it's one of the best pj's on the market and to get a better one you have to pay a lot, lot more.

    Try the reviews at www.projectorcentral.com.

    I wish I could justify the cost for one but I think I'm probably going for the Z1 as there will probably be a better, cheaper upgrade in a year or two.

    Cheers,
    C.
     
  23. spiderv6

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    Just received it - boy is it HUGE!! :eek:

    Unfortunately, I'm still in the office with a million things to do.....:rolleyes:

    I'll post later tonight after I've fired her up.

    No idea how I will concentrate on anything today..........:rotfl:
     
  24. Tibbsy

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  25. spiderv6

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    :clap: Why didn't I get one of these before? Simply stunning!

    My picture is about a 110" diagonal, directly onto a wall (screen is next....). I'm using component connections and my DVD player is about 3 years old and although top of the range when I bought it, it's now very old in technology terms. Nonetheless, the quality is absolutely stunning.

    Screendoor - what's that?!

    The picture is SO much better than my 36" 100Hz Panny - miles better.

    Took me 5 minutes to get it up and running. So far I haven't changed any of the settings. Flicked through Start Wars II, Gladiator.

    It's huge, it's bright......off to play more. Gonna be a late night.:laugh:
     
  26. Messiah

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    Hi spiderv6

    I've been thinking about a Vw12 for ages and what with the lower price it is soooo tempting. As I too have a 110" diagonal screen (8ft horizontal) could you please tell me the distance between the screen and the lens of the pj. That will tell me if I can fit it in.

    Thanks loads and enjoy your new baby :D
     
  27. spiderv6

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    my room is 18´feet so I guess the PJ is about 17 feet or so from the screen.

    Still can´t believe how good this is for such a small amount of money.......sooooo much better than when I demo`d the HS10 (sorry all you HS10 owners!!)
     
  28. gwbailey

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    Hi spiderv6,

    Could you please tell me how much you paid for the 12ht in total? eg;PJ,customs,tax,shiping etc,etc,

    Regards,
     
  29. Messiah

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    I think he stated earlier in the thread that he paid £2660 from a german retailer. As they are in the EU there won't be any tax, vat, customs etc, just delivery. Sure spider will confirm though.
     
  30. John_N

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    Spiderv6:

    What sort of fan noise do you get from the VPL-VW12HT? How does it compare to the sony HS10 that you looked at?
     

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