VP50 Specs up

Steve Zodiac

Active Member
I rightly or wrongly assumed that this was an "all-in" deal and once you added the $250 for International customers on DVDO's website, that then was the full price with nothing else to pay.... a bit like some of the US Toshiba HD-DVD player deals - the price you pay includes everything, or so I thought.
 

madshi

Active Member
TransientWolf said:
Yeah, but that's when you directly import something from US to UK. AFAIK the VP50 will ship from DVDO to OWL. And then OWL will ship it to you. There's no VAT when OWL ships it to you, because it's inside UK. There can only be VAT when DVDO ships it to OWL. But if there's VAT during that shipment, how will *YOU* get billed for that? DVDO will not further bill you. Will OWL bill the VAT to you seperately? That would the only thing making sense to me.

But maybe the shipment from DVDO to OWL somehow works without VAT being added? Don't know how that would work, but maybe DVDO exporting things is different than a private person importing things.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
I ordered the 102 from AVS and it came well after official UK stock and wasn't any cheaper, I am holding off to see what UK 'DVDO people' here will be doing about VP50 upgrades ;) Give them a few days...
 

ailean

Member
Normally VAT would be on what you paid, so wouldn't include the refund for old iscan but would include the AVS discount (not sure about the $250 fee, vat is paid on shipping but you're getting shipping from within the uk).

However... someone has noted on AVS that when they used the same deal to upgrade to the VP30 in the UK that they were never charged any additional amount...

So fingers crossed. ;)
 

Steve Zodiac

Active Member
Nic Rhodes said:
I ordered the 102 from AVS and it came well after official UK stock and wasn't any cheaper, I am holding off to see what DVDO people here will be doing about VP50 upgrades ;) Give them a few days...
This was the reply I received from Owl Video a few days ago:

"Hi, There will be no trade-in program for newer models. The VP50 will be around £2000 retail."
 

ailean

Member
madshi said:
But maybe the shipment from DVDO to OWL somehow works without VAT being added? Don't know how that would work, but maybe DVDO exporting things is different than a private person importing things.

I think... if you are vat reg'd that you pay import duties on goods but no VAT, then when you sell those goods within the UK you charge VAT (on the sale value, i.e. including your markup/profit) which you then pay up on your yearly tax return.... :confused:

Private goods and services imported are charged VAT/Duty either direct by the seller (i.e. if you buy a license key for downloadable software now the overseas seller should charge you UK VAT, think it's an EU deal with several countries) or from Customs at point of delivery or a later invoice.
 

StooMonster

Well-known Member
Chris5 said:
it's one or tuther, but not both.
I paid both on many occasions -- ah the UK with our 38% of GDP tax burden. :(

StooMonster
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Steve Zodiac said:
This was the reply I received from Owl Video a few days ago:

"Hi, There will be no trade-in program for newer models. The VP50 will be around £2000 retail."


Give it a few days, I have heard this before.
 

Madders

Active Member
Madders said:
Am I right in thinking that if when placing the AVS upgrade order, the credit card is authorised but not then actually billed until the VP50's are ready to ship?

Thanks.

Anybody :confused:
 

Gordon @ Convergent AV

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If you are a company importing goods to UK you pay duty and vat as soon as the goods arrive in UK. Customs will not release the goods until you do. If you use professional courier companies they have accounts with Customs and will pay the duty and vat on your behalf, then bill you for it along with their admin. You can then claim back the VAT element on your quarterly vat return. When you sell the goods to a dealer or end user you charge vat and you have to pay the revenue that 17.5% every quarter....

Hope this clears up a little.

Gordon
 

StooMonster

Well-known Member
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
You can then claim back the VAT element on your quarterly vat return. When you sell the goods to a dealer or end user you charge vat and you have to pay the revenue that 17.5% every quarter....
You also claim back the VAT element of the courier's admin fee -- i.e. got to get every penny back!

StooMonster (net exporter of services from UK who is therefore paid by the revenue every quarter instead of having to pay them)
 

Chris5

Well-known Member
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
When you sell the goods to a dealer or end user you charge vat and you have to pay the revenue that 17.5% every quarter....

But OWL (UK importer) are not selling on the unit to me, they are merely passing the unit on to me. The contract / sale was made in the USA.
 

togad

Active Member
Chris5 said:
But OWL (UK importer) are not selling on the unit to me, they are merely passing the unit on to me. The contract / sale was made in the USA.
And this is the key point.

There is no transaction with Owl at any time with respect to the supply of the VP50.

We (end users) have a transaction with DVDO in the US. If DVDO ship the VP50 to Owl, and Owl pay the import duty and VAT, that's between them. Nothing to do with us.

The process is however very interesting from the VAT-man's perspective. Owl will be able to reclaim the VAT paid on importing the goods, but as there is no transaction between Owl and us, there's no VAT that can be collected.

It appears that, effectively, we get the goods VAT-free. It seems like a loophole, but I have no doubt whatsoever that it isn't in reality, and that ultimately, Owl are liable for the output VAT (i.e. the VAT on the "invisible" transaction between the them and us).
 

alwyn

Active Member
togad said:
And this is the key point.

There is no transaction with Owl at any time with respect to the supply of the VP50.

We (end users) have a transaction with DVDO in the US. If DVDO ship the VP50 to Owl, and Owl pay the import duty and VAT, that's between them. Nothing to do with us.

The process is however very interesting from the VAT-man's perspective. Owl will be able to reclaim the VAT paid on importing the goods, but as there is no transaction between Owl and us, there's no VAT that can be collected.

It appears that, effectively, we get the goods VAT-free. It seems like a loophole, but I have no doubt whatsoever that it isn't in reality, and that ultimately, Owl are liable for the output VAT (i.e. the VAT on the "invisible" transaction between the them and us).
Owl will just act as a courier.If the goods had been sent via Fed ex to you they woud pay the vat on your behalf and then they would bill you,its just the same with owl.One thing is certain you will pay vat at the point of entry.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello all

DVDO and Owl are struggling to come up with a working solution to the upgrade programme - I'm sure too no one gave the VAT issue a second thought when they came up with the Order On-Line, ship to Owl then Distribute to end user idea!

Personally I'm not convinced the International Upgrade programme is viable in the long term - 'In-Country' Upgrade programmes are the only viable option as upgrading becomes popular.

Best regards

Joe
 

liam_b

Active Member
Yes the upgrade program is excellent, the offer pricing is excellent.

But I can't believe that DVDO have done nothing to improve the lacking performance of the S-video inputs (1.5MHz colour reponse is kinda poor especially when the Iscan did much better!), the composite input could improved significantly with a new input decoder (laserdisk/cable users could benefit), the component input will still have the weird top right corner bends/banding due the old Philips chipset they use.

Before you all say 'what weird banding?' get the DVE high frequency horizontal multiburst pattern up on the screen and have a good look at it, it is very easy to see on my 1024x576 and 1280x1024 digital displays.

And finally, as I have said before I've had dealings with OWL in the past and they will NEVER get any business from me, DVDO really need to get a better outfit to handle the UK distribution.
 

togad

Active Member
madshi said:
Too bad that until now still nobody knows for sure whether VAT will be applies or not... :(
VAT most definitely does apply.

There are two things though -

1. What actually is the value of the goods being supplied?
2. Will anyone get caught.

The problem with (1) is that although through the trade-in programme some of us will be effectively getting our VP50's for $1249, that's not what we're being charged. We're being charged $2849 up front, and then shipping back our VP30s for a credit to be applied.

Strictly speaking, someone will be liable for VAT on the full whack of $2849, and there's no "legal" way of getting out of it.

From the DVDO upgrade page:

International customers: an international upgrade processing and handling fee of $250 will be added to your order. This fee will also cover shipping, customs duties and taxes for your new iScan.

If they're going to withdraw that statement, then I have to admit I'm going to reconsider. There's no way I'm paying the full VAT on the VP50 (+ international shipping and handling fee) on a trade-in.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello Togad

The folk at DVDO say you'll pay what's shown on the DVDO 'Upgrade' page + the 250 USD 'Handing fee' and that's it; no additional VAT or Import Duty.

Best regards

Joe
 

madshi

Active Member
Joe Fernand said:
Hello Togad

The folk at DVDO say you'll pay what's shown on the DVDO 'Upgrade' page + the 250 USD 'Handing fee' and that's it; no additional VAT or Import Duty.

Best regards

Joe
Hi Joe, is that new information? In the US forums Josh (from DVDO) explicitly stated that the 250 USD don't include VAT and that we have to check what the rules in our country are with VAT.
 

Chris5

Well-known Member
:smashin: :)

Lets hope that puts this issue to bed and that we can move on and look forward to our new VP.

When is it due again?

(edit: posted before seeing madshi's entry)
 

Chris5

Well-known Member
Madshi,
I believe Joe is right. Josh may have said that 'off the cuff' without checking.
the key thing is the website said 'with tax' and I dont think DVDO would risk changing their minds and risking the flack.
At least for orders already taken, things could change in the furure though.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello madshi

I asked the question of DVDO (International Sales) yesterday as someone from AVForums asked me to look at this thread and see if I could clarify the position.

I'm still not sure I understand the mechanism DVDO are using and their assertion on the VAT position - I'll see if I can get someone from DVDO to respond in this Thread.

Joe
 

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