Vivitek H6080FD 1080p LED DLP Projector - the beginning of the end for bulbs!

Welwynnick

Distinguished Member
Chi Lin, Delta, Projection Design and Projection Technology have for some time been making announcements and holding demonstrations of my own holy grail in projectors - solid state lamps - but it looks like Vivitek that have got their H6080HD to the market first. (BTW, they are often referred to Vivatek or Vivitech)

They showed the HC7500A at CES in January, but the production model looks the same, but has greater contrast (100k vs 35k) and brightness (800 vs 700 lm). The Vivitek H9080HD costs £10,995 and is available in the UK now through distributor Rapesco AV. Its very big and expensive, and the light output is modest, but if the claims to kill rainbows are realised, and headline specs are met when calibrated, then it might be competitive against the better three-chip DLPs.

I can't wait to hear what Phil Hinton will make of it - I think he's requested a review sample. There are a few reviews starting to come in, and the most interesting is certainly the fascinating series of three tests by cine4home.
In this first part of our Vivitek LED specials we have a first overview of the fundamental innovations of the new technology where. Already here is the enormous potential in terms of color, contrast and artifact reduction. Indeed, we are with the results of this first model is so surprised that we are convinced that it is in the 3-LED lighting technology to the variant of the future.

With cooling lighter, less wear, longer life, higher Farbreinheit, compact dimensions, less power consumption etc, etc, they offer to the UHP lamp technology key advantages of the weaknesses of the last large projection removed. But all this does not mean that it is already at the destination would be. While proof of Vivitek H6080HD that LEDs become a good brightness for home theater reach, but really light cannons are still not possible. Also, the adaptive light control, and cooling further optimized until all the technical possibilities effectively exploited.

In the next part (II) of this special series we will detail the technical design of the projector company and show how the three separate LEDs for lighting provide the necessary.
There's also a very positive review here by John Archer on trusted reviews:
Any doubts I may have had about LED's potential as a true home cinema technology have been comprehensively trounced by the H9080FD. It's a truly spectacular projector that can produce the sort of picture quality you never want to turn off. In fact, so good is this LED lighting debut that it's hard to imagine how the technology could be improved for its next generation. Perhaps the best way I can convey just how good the H9080FD is, though, is by saying that even though it costs £10,995, in my book it's actually something of a bargain.
It sounds like they've got gamut, gamma and greyscale licked, and when source modulation is developed a bit further, there simply might not be any issues with on-off contrast any more. The technical stuff is fascinating, as it sounds like Vivitek have taken advantage of all the flexibilty that LEDs offer (not just the fast refresh rate). The LEDs can illuminated in any order, and for variable duration. They can be switched on one at a time, two at a time (for secondary colours) or none at all for all-black. They can be illuminated in any sequence thats needed - not just the order they come in the colour wheel - and the duty cycle can be controlled to give D65 from the light source, without needing to use colour controls that lose you half the brightness and contrast. This is great stuff.

Specs:
MSRP (USD) : $19,999
Brightness (Lumens) : 800 ANSI
Contrast (Full On/Off) : 100000:1
Variable Iris: Yes
High Brightness:
ANSI Lumens: **
Contrast Ratio: **
High Contrast:
ANSI Lumens: **
Contrast Ratio: 100000:1
Audible Noise: 28.0 dB
Weight: 20.0 kg
Size (cm) (HxWxD) : 24 x 52 x 56
Std. Lens: Focus:
Manual
Zoom: Manual, 1.30:1
Throw Dist (m) : 3.2 - 6.1
Image Size (cm) : 152 - 381
Optional Lenses: No
Digital Zoom: **
Digital Keystone: No
Lens Shift: Horz & Vert
Warranty: **
Performance:
H-Sync Range: **
V-Sync Range: **
Compatibility:
HDTV: 720p, 1080i, 1080p/60
EDTV/480p: Yes
SDTV/480i: Yes
Component Video: Yes
Video: Yes
Digital Input: HDMI (HDCP)
Computers: Yes
Display: Type:
2 cm DLP (1)
Color Wheel Segs: **
Color Wheel Speed: **
Native: 1920x1080 Pixels
Maximum: 1920x1080 Pixels
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (HD)
Lamp: Type:
LED
Life: 20000 hours
Quantity: 1
Speakers: No
Max Power: 175W
Voltage: 100V - 240V
FCC Class: B
Special: RS232 Port

Status: Announced
First Ship: Pending

This is a very interesting brochure, and here's the manufacturer's pretty useless web-site:

Vivitek
P R E S S R E L E A S E

VIVITEK SHOWS FIRST 1080p LED HOME CINEMA PROJECTOR AT CES

First LED Product from New Company on Display in Booth #26047
LAS VEGAS, January 8, 2009 – Vivitek Corporation, a leader in the environmentally responsible manufacture of today's most innovative visual display and presentation products, will be showing the industry's first 1080p, LED projector at the 2009 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) this week in Las Vegas. The quiet, new H6080FD, breakthrough projector, provides the growing HD home theater market with the industry's brightest, pure-color, video to-date.

“This new projector brings a powerful, clean, and pure signal for non-distorted, high-quality performance,” said David Chiu, president of Vivitek. "The brightness and HD imaging are unmatched by any of the other LED units I have seen. It should be a must-see while at the show.”

The new H6080FD DLP projector blasts in full 800-lumen brightness, with a precise imaging 100,000:1 contrast ratio. With full HD (1920x1080) resolution and wide-screen capabilities, Vivitek's new projector is a complete home cinema experience. The unit is a new curved design with centered lens for easy installation and screen adjustments.

True to Vivitek's corporate agenda of responsible environmental sensibilities, the new projector has a full slate of low-energy and low-power consumption features, which also translate into low cost of ownership starting with the lamp-free, LED light source estimated at more than 20,000 hours. Completely Mercury-free, the DLP dust- and filter-free design eliminates filter disposal and cleaning, and the non-motion interior of the projector affords the quietest and coolest running.

For all applications, Vivitek's new projector has a wide variety of ports including dual, all-digital HDMI connections. The new H6080FD 1080p projector from Vivitek has an MSRP of $19,999 and will be available in early June.

About Vivitek Corporation
Headquartered in Southern California, Vivitek Corporation markets an extensive line of visual display and presentation products, including high-value projectors and digital signage monitors. Products are sold through authorized dealers, distribution, resellers, select retailers, and system integrators nationwide. The green rainbow-shaped umbrella over the Vivitek name in the company's logo speaks to its corporate culture, representing an active responsibility for global resource care in both its manufacturing and business processes and programs. For more information, please visit Vivitek.
 
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Welwynnick

Distinguished Member
Apparently there are some downsides, too:

- Too high noise level
- Convergence issues (presumably with the lens)
- Adaptive light control / bad side effects
- Bugs with colour management system
- Halo effects
- Light loss without BC

though they sound like generic first-generation projector problems, rather than what might be attributable to the light source.

Nick
 

binbag

Active Member
HCC are 'reviewing' it in their next issue. Can't see how LEDs are noisier to cool than a lamp. :confused:
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
I have it confirmed that we will be getting a review sample in the next few weeks. As always it will get the full review treatment.
 

anibap

Well-known Member
From Trusted Review by J Archer
Basically, the H9080FD delivers the most sensational contrast performance I've seen from any projector aside from - perhaps! - SIM2's C3X 1080. And that projector costs more than 20 grand…

At one end of the contrast 'spectrum', the H9080FD delivers stunning black levels deep enough to at least rival and possibly outgun the class-leading black levels of JVC's top-level D-ILA projectors. What's more, these rich, deep, yet also natural and detail-packed blacks can be delivered without calling in the optional Dynamic Iris system, ensuring that the image looks perfectly stable at all times.

At the bright end of the contrast spectrum, meanwhile, the projector proves it can produce some remarkably pure, clean and bright peak whites. And it can do this even within the same frame as the pitch blacks we've already mentioned.

Again, this facility to deliver high bright points right next to deep black points reminds us of JVC's D-ILA technology. But crucially the H9080FD manages to deliver this cinematic treat with much more apparent brightness than the JVC models. This means that a) the image looks more dynamic, and b) the H9080FD should be able to drive a considerably larger screen than JVC's still-outstanding efforts.

Phil,

I know you will be reviewing the unit soon. But Can you throw some comments on the J Archer's review?

The review says JVC like blacks with equally impressive whites and a more dynamic picture. - Is it becuase of the LED engine or something else?

If LED can really do awesome blacks and whites together, why other DLP manufactureres are still developing new lamp based PJs?

Look forward to your indepth review...
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Phil,

I know you will be reviewing the unit soon. But Can you throw some comments on the J Archer's review?

The review says JVC like blacks with equally impressive whites and a more dynamic picture. - Is it becuase of the LED engine or something else?

If LED can really do awesome blacks and whites together, why other DLP manufactureres are still developing new lamp based PJs?

Look forward to your indepth review...
I have yet to see the unit, so cannot throw any comments on what someone else has said (as their conclusions seem pretty subjective with no test results).
However, I do have a JVC HD750 as a reference point in our review room and every projector is assessed side by side with that, as will the Vivitek. Hope that helps, I am interested to see just what the technology is capable of.
 

cyberheater

Well-known Member
cinehome.de have a multipage preview write up on the performance and technology. Well worth a read via google translation.
Parts 1 & 2 are online and part 3 should be there soonish.
 

jacko5

Active Member
I look forward to someone reviewing this technolgy who is highly sensitive to colour wheel rainbows to see if this wheel free technology eliminates rainbows. I certainly hope it does and perhaps as a consequence also eliminates headaches and eyestrain.
 

anibap

Well-known Member
On my way home today popped into PC world and Currys to chek out the TV sizes for a different issue I am having.

The LED models from Samsung were there and they looked great for a TV. Strikingly different from the rest in terms of black level and peak whites. Awesome quality. The picture is so good that you can't turn your eye from it to see the rest. The rest of the LCD and plasmas looked quite inferior.

If the same quality can be achieved with LED based projectors, I guess other technologies will die soon or need to innovate.
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
Apparently there are some downsides, too:

- Too high noise level
- Convergence issues (presumably with the lens)
- Adaptive light control / bad side effects
- Bugs with colour management system
- Halo effects
- Light loss without BC

though they sound like generic first-generation projector problems, rather than what might be attributable to the light source.

Nick


What exactly is the noise level in db ?
 

stainless-steel

Active Member
There's a detailed review of the 9080 by Art over at Projector Reviews.

Looks like a great start for a production PJ, but certainly not game over for the lamp based competition.
At the current price it makes the likes of the JVC 350/750 look even better value for money IMHO.
In a generation or two though???

It still uses a DI though, and a much as I love my HW10 one thing it's taught me it that my next pj won't rely on an iris to boost contrast.

EDIT: Or does it? Cine4Home talk about adaptive light control and Projector reviews "As is normal for dynamic iris projectors, there's a price to pay for the better blacks, and that falls into two categories. The first, is some compression of the image, the second, iris action is sometimes noticeable (and annoying)."

Dynamic iris, or dynamic brightness? Or am i just confused!!??

Are the 60 and 90 different models?
 
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howieeb

Active Member
LED looks promising from that review. Perhaps not now, but like you said in a generation or two. I'm planning on buying a projector next year and am hoping it'll be my last bulb machine.
 

darinp2

Active Member
There's also a very positive review here by John Archer on trusted reviews:
I realize that the site is called trustedreviews, but I don't put a lot of trust in something that says:
At one end of the contrast 'spectrum', the H9080FD delivers stunning black levels deep enough to at least rival and possibly outgun the class-leading black levels of JVC's top-level D-ILA projectors. What's more, these rich, deep, yet also natural and detail-packed blacks can be delivered without calling in the optional Dynamic Iris system, ensuring that the image looks perfectly stable at all times.
and
In fact, so good is this LED lighting debut that it's hard to imagine how the technology could be improved for its next generation.
with a projector that probably has around 3k:1 native on/off CR (around the same as the Planar 8150 according to Ekkehart from Cine4home). I know that numbers don't tell the whole story, but I look for measurements partially because I've heard too many times that the blacks were the best, couldn't get any better, etc., with projectors that were definitely lacking in absolute black level performance compared to the best that could be had and definitely compared to what is possible.

In this case I'll trust Cine4home and actual measurements more. If the native on/off CR is only 3000:1 without the DynamicBlack enabled then that tells me the lowest that black can go in that mode for a given white level off the screen.
Dynamic iris, or dynamic brightness? Or am i just confused!!??
I think some others have gotten confused and thought that TI's DynamicBlack meant a dynamic iris when TI's DynamicBlack is just a dynamic system that can use an iris for the dimming but can also use other things. Despite some (like Vivitek) continuing to claim that they have a dynamic iris I think it is just that they have a dynamic system using the LEDs to dim things for TI's DynamicBlack feature. One of the documents from Vivitek even refers to TI's DynamicIris (although maybe with a space) even though the feature is trademarked as DynamicBlack. Technology can be difficult enough and then different languages come in, so I can understand how they could have made a mistake like this.

Since Ekkehart takes the projectors apart and is scoping some things, he would be the one I would trust most on what they use to dim the light for the dynamic system.

--Darin
 
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Pecker

Distinguished Member
The positive thing here is the price.

That review quotes $15k vs $10k for the JVC HD750 - that's half as much again. You can buy a 750 in the UK for c.£4,600 so 150% of that price - if that's how it translates - is £6,900.

Okay, that's a lot of money, but a lot of the spec for this PJ usually only comes on pretty high-end models (lens shift on a DLP, anyone?). Also, this appears to be the world's first home cinema PJ with an LED light source, and you'd expect prices to fall pretty quickly.

That suggests that it's not cost them an awful lot for the LED part of the projector. By this time next year we could potentially be looking at something like the Optoma HD20/200X for the price they are now + a couple of hundred quid.

But with no RBE.

That really does lay down the gauntlet.

Steve W
 

binbag

Active Member
I'm wondering how the increased longetivity of this technology will actually sit in the current FP world. The only technology with comparable lifespan (CRT) is practically no more as far as HC is concerned and whilst we might complain at having to replace bulbs (and the associated costs) the reality often is that it provides an excuse for us to buy a new PJ and as such generates PJ sales.

Allied to the loss in replacement bulb sales, is LED actually a good move for PJ manufacturers? Will it lead to less choice and more expensive units if it does take over as manufacturers are not going to happily give up their profit margins.
 
D

dovercat

Guest
LED technology has the potential to deliver alot.

Enables micro dlp projectors to be made, included in mobile phones etc... More dlp chip sales equals cheaper chips in the long term and more money for R&D.

Removes the fear of seeing dlp rainbow effect, so increasing dlp sales over lcd.

The benefit of longer product life and removes the worry of blubs flickering or dimming or dying premature, so increasing projector sales. Projector lamps cost almost as much as the projector but since projector manufactures do not make their own lamps I doubt they will be heavily impacted by loss of revenue. I expect most projector manufactures are in fact little more than brand names doing bulk ordering, the design and manufacturing being done by others.

The benefit of better colour accuracy out of the box and no colour shifting overtime. Calibrators might lose out a bit.

The benefit of extra contrast due to no spoke time.

Increased secondhand value, and when they eventually die no option but to buy a new projector. Unless they make led light sources user replaceable.


Currently this model is just way too expensive, and performance wise it does not appear to justify the price, so you are paying a premimum for the led technology. I expect led projectors to rapidly drop in price and improve in performance. I would sooner wait and buy a projector with higher performance for a fraction of the price in a few years.

The main drawback of led projectors I think will be a price crash in the second hand value of traditional lamp based projectors.
 
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anibap

Well-known Member
PJ Central review is up

Vivitek H9080FD 1080p LED DLP Projector

From review + points
1. Excellent blacks - better than most DLPs and many Lcos based products but no mention of models :confused:
2. Awesome ANSI - 844:1 :eek:
3. No rainbows at all nearly 20x colour wheel spped equiv :thumbsup:
4. 20000 hrs lamp life :smashin:

- points
1. Heavy at around 15 kg :eek:
2. Price :thumbsdow
3. Some noise :rolleyes:

The PJC review and Trusted review looks similar and very promising but the review from Art suggests this a new breakthrough technology but PQ is not as good as what the other reviews are suggesting.

Phil, are you planning a review of this unit?

It lools like LED will be the technology for future and more advancements will be made in this area. Sim2 is coming up with a model of their own...Hope other DLP manufacturers soon follow and the price comes down.

For me the big question is will DLP PJs with LED light engine be able to match the blacks of the JVC?

Cheers

Ani
 

cyberheater

Well-known Member
@ anibap. When they get this technology with this level of performance in a smaller package, quieter and around the £1500/£2000 mark then it's game over for LCD/DLP standard bulb projectors.

I can't wait. Hopefully with a year.
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Phil, are you planning a review of this unit?
will DLP PJs with LED light engine be able to match the blacks of the JVC?
Ani

Look what turned up today.

20090909165233.jpg


And it will be put up against our reference JVC HD750 in a comparison. Review will take me about a week.
 

anibap

Well-known Member
@ anibap. When they get this technology with this level of performance in a smaller package, quieter and around the £1500/£2000 mark then it's game over for LCD/DLP standard bulb projectors.
I can't wait. Hopefully with a year.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Hope this happens soon.

Look what turned up today.
And it will be put up against our reference JVC HD750 in a comparison. Review will take me about a week.

What a coincidence....:D Can't wait Phil. Please give us something in between like first impressions and comparisons....:) I am sure you can do that...let the AVforce be with you....
 

Pulse1

Well-known Member
:smashin: Phil :) Looking forward to a very indepth review from you as we've all come to expect now and will be interesting to see the pros and cons against the reference HD750 :D
 

Bogget

Standard Member
Hmm, i think you will struggle to find a DLP projector in 5 years all will be gone and i think you miss quote 844:1 ANSI? i think you might mean contrast ratio and with some of the new Epsons having 200,000:1 Contrast Ratio
@1600 ANSI it makes that look very poor.

I think i know which i would prefere with is almost silent operation and solid black. Oh and did i mention the £1499 price?

Oh and support they come to your house of course so sort any problems you might have included in the normal warranty, if you want more info PM me.

Bogget





PJ Central review is up

Vivitek H9080FD 1080p LED DLP Projector

From review + points
1. Excellent blacks - better than most DLPs and many Lcos based products but no mention of models :confused:
2. Awesome ANSI - 844:1 :eek:
3. No rainbows at all nearly 20x colour wheel spped equiv :thumbsup:
4. 20000 hrs lamp life :smashin:

- points
1. Heavy at around 15 kg :eek:
2. Price :thumbsdow
3. Some noise :rolleyes:

The PJC review and Trusted review looks similar and very promising but the review from Art suggests this a new breakthrough technology but PQ is not as good as what the other reviews are suggesting.

Phil, are you planning a review of this unit?

It lools like LED will be the technology for future and more advancements will be made in this area. Sim2 is coming up with a model of their own...Hope other DLP manufacturers soon follow and the price comes down.

For me the big question is will DLP PJs with LED light engine be able to match the blacks of the JVC?

Cheers

Ani
 
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Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
First update: This thing is huge and heavy. It dwarfs the HD750 in size. Plus you have to take the thing to bits to set it up, no 10 minute set up here. Unscrew back cover to get to the connections and then remove top cover to get to the lens shift. Build like a tank and is well designed for a custom install (where this is likely to be bought and fitted), once you put it together again all the cable runs are well hidden. Connections are nice with pro BNC for component, nice touch even if its going to be unused apart from quick testing with a generator.
 

anibap

Well-known Member
Hmm, i think you will struggle to find a DLP projector in 5 years all will be gone and i think you miss quote 844:1 ANSI? i think you might mean contrast ratio and with some of the new Epsons having 200,000:1 Contrast Ratio
@1600 ANSI it makes that look very poor.

Bogget

I meant 844:1 ANSI CR and that is reported by PJC. and the Epson's contrast ratio is 200,000 On/Off in dynamic mode and not ANSI CR. I would assume teh Epsons ANSI CR to be around 300-400 only.
 

PioFreak

Standard Member
I am interested to see if they fixed the issues found by Cine4home. Unless these issues are fixed it is a no go. But of it is essentially a JVC750 type PQ (touch less on off, more ansi) and no lamp replacement...we could have a great first gen LED PJ where you wont be a beta tester. Phil does superb reviews, so I eagerly await the verdict!
 

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