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Question Vive Pro or Valve Index

Gryphaea

Active Member
I've browsed the forum , but wanted to solicit any further opinions on my next upgrade. I've had the standard Vive for a couple of years. I have no issue with the controlers, the need for lighthouses and I operate in a 3x2 meet room space.

PC is
Intel Core i5 6600 s1151 3.3GH
2x8G Corsair Vengence LPX DDR4 3000 RED
Cougar QBX Pro Mini ITX case
Gigabyte GA-B150N-Phoenix-Wifi Motherboard
Gigabyte GTX 1080 Founders Edition

and a Thrustmaster T300.
I have a lot of Steam VR & ReVive games, that I flit between.

I feel it is time to upgrade something & my priority is better graphics - the 'wow' factor. So I'm thinking it is either a Vive Pro or Valve Index headset. I'll change controllers later.

Any considered options please.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
All those that own the Index will say Index all those that own Vive Pro will say Vive Pro and those that don’t own either will say RiftS.

I own 4 HMDs and Index is the best overall package imo. I’ve played over 70 hours in No Mans Sky alone and Index is so comfy and easy on the eyes you don’t feel the need to take it off even after hours of play.

The latest batch of Knuckle controllers are now devoid of issues.

Tracking on Vive Pro will be identical to Index.

I’ve never used a Vive Pro or had the chance to compare it to the Index but the main difference are these. The Vive Pro uses OLED screens so gives you deeper blacks over Index but Vive Pro also uses Pentile displays with far less sub pixels over Index which will have much reduced SDE.

Vive Pro uses the old Fresnel lenses from OG Vive which has pronounced rings where as Index has zero Fresnel rings but does have more glare in high contrast scenes. I prefer the Index lenses over Vives. (Index just had a firmware update and you can now adjust the brightness although I’ve not tried this yet.)

Vive Pro has built in headphones that were criticised at launch for lacking bass. Index has been praised highly for its off ear speakers. I like them. The Vive Pro was criticised at release for Mic popping, Index has a top quality Mic. I don’t know if the problems with the Vive Pro were eventually fixed.

Index has wider FOV than the Vive Pro but this is dependant on headsize, eye position etc. I measured Index at 115 degrees which in my case is 20 degrees more than the Vive. Vive Pro should be the same as the Vives.

You can buy Knuckles for either headset but it works out cheaper if you buy the full Index package.

Vive Pro - £799 Index - £460.
Or get Index and Knuckles for less than Vive Pro. Unless you find a good deal on the Vive Pro.

For me Index is a no brainer, it’s cheaper by far with better lenses, higher sub-pixel count, less SDE, higher refresh rates, has an extra cushion for small heads and looks great with a removable front cover and expansion slot.

Vive Pro has better blacks so if you play lots of dark games like ED then it’s this might be better.

I like to play No Mans Sky that has plenty of bright and colourful planets to explore so the lens glare is not an issue.

If you can, try both with the games you like to play because the ultimate decision maker is your own eyes.
 
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Atmos

Well-known Member
Oh I forgot to mention the edge to edge clarity on the Index is fantastic. I never notice any lens blur and once you get use to the clarity it’s hard to go back to other HMDs. This is why I prefer the Index over the Pimax 5k+ even though the Pimax has bigger FOV.
 

Gryphaea

Active Member
Thanks to both insights. Particularly good to hear that the Index controllers are fixed, as that seems the main topic in the Index forum.
 

huxley

Well-known Member
Thanks to both insights. Particularly good to hear that the Index controllers are fixed, as that seems the main topic in the Index forum.
Is that a cert? I`ve seen returned controllers this week that still have problems.
 

ArmitageShanks

Well-known Member
FWIW, I was in the same dilemma a month or two ago, coming from the Vive. I already have a Pimax 8K so that's about as good as it gets resolution and FOV wise, but the LCD panels just lack the punchiness of the Vive's OLED panels and for me at least, that was a biggie.

I ended up upgrading to a (used) Vive Pro. It's probably not quite as big of a visual upgrade as going to the Index if you're prepared to sacrifice colour depth, but it certainly has made life easier on my eyes, so I'm very happy with the Pro. The audio is a little harsh-sounding compared with the Vive's DAS - just a warning. Will pair it with some Index controllers at a later date once the issues have been resolved.
 

Gryphaea

Active Member
FWIW, I was in the same dilemma a month or two ago, coming from the Vive. I already have a Pimax 8K so that's about as good as it gets resolution and FOV wise, but the LCD panels just lack the punchiness of the Vive's OLED panels and for me at least, that was a biggie.

I ended up upgrading to a (used) Vive Pro. It's probably not quite as big of a visual upgrade as going to the Index if you're prepared to sacrifice colour depth, but it certainly has made life easier on my eyes, so I'm very happy with the Pro. Will pair it with some Index controllers at a later date once the issues have been resolved.
I'm now thinking Index, but would have gone second-hand on the Pro as well.
 

ArmitageShanks

Well-known Member
I'm now thinking Index, but would have gone second-hand on the Pro as well.
Either will give you a fantastic experience I think coming from the Vive. Most reviewers rate the Index as much better than the Pro as an overall package so you can't really go wrong either way.
 

ArmitageShanks

Well-known Member
Also if you want to go wireless, currently the Pro is the only viable option really. The Pro's single cable is actually far, far more annoying and twist-prone than the original Vive's 3-in-1 cable imo. Not sure how it compares with the Index cable, but at least in the short term it's got the only decent wireless solution available...if you have a machine to handle it and the funds of course. I'm sadly still tethered.
 

Gryphaea

Active Member
Also if you want to go wireless, currently the Pro is the only viable option really. The Pro's single cable is actually far, far more annoying and twist-prone than the original Vive's 3-in-1 cable imo. Not sure how it compares with the Index cable, but at least in the short term it's got the only decent wireless solution available...if you have a machine to handle it and the funds of course. I'm sadly still tethered.
I thought about wireless, but having opted for a micro case, I don’t believe I have the space for the dedicated card. I’d rather keep the wire and the £300 that I didn’t spend on the wireless solution
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
The index cable is a really thick heavy thing.
I wouldn’t call it thick and heavy.

Left Pimax 5k+, Middle Index, Right Vive.

upload_2019-9-13_18-23-16.jpeg


So Index is slightly thicker than the Pimax but both are far better than the Vive.
 
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huxley

Well-known Member
I only briefly owned a Vive. When you go from a CV1 to the index you notice the weight. But there is more in this cable after all. Higher quality for faster data rates etc for the higher res screens and the extra usb port and cameras.
 

ArmitageShanks

Well-known Member
The Vive cables are both certainly heavy-ish, but I had a far easier time managing the OG Vive's ribbon-like cable than the Pro. The Pro's cable likes to loop and twist and wrap around my feet.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
All those that own the Index will say Index all those that own Vive Pro will say Vive Pro and those that don’t own either will say RiftS.

I own 4 HMDs and Index is the best overall package imo. I’ve played over 70 hours in No Mans Sky alone and Index is so comfy and easy on the eyes you don’t feel the need to take it off even after hours of play.

The latest batch of Knuckle controllers are now devoid of issues.

Tracking on Vive Pro will be identical to Index.

I’ve never used a Vive Pro or had the chance to compare it to the Index but the main difference are these. The Vive Pro uses OLED screens so gives you deeper blacks over Index but Vive Pro also uses Pentile displays with far less sub pixels over Index which will have much reduced SDE.

Vive Pro uses the old Fresnel lenses from OG Vive which has pronounced rings where as Index has zero Fresnel rings but does have more glare in high contrast scenes. I prefer the Index lenses over Vives. (Index just had a firmware update and you can now adjust the brightness although I’ve not tried this yet.)

Vive Pro has built in headphones that were criticised at launch for lacking bass. Index has been praised highly for its off ear speakers. I like them. The Vive Pro was criticised at release for Mic popping, Index has a top quality Mic. I don’t know if the problems with the Vive Pro were eventually fixed.

Index has wider FOV than the Vive Pro but this is dependant on headsize, eye position etc. I measured Index at 115 degrees which in my case is 20 degrees more than the Vive. Vive Pro should be the same as the Vives.

You can buy Knuckles for either headset but it works out cheaper if you buy the full Index package.

Vive Pro - £799 Index - £460.
Or get Index and Knuckles for less than Vive Pro. Unless you find a good deal on the Vive Pro.

For me Index is a no brainer, it’s cheaper by far with better lenses, higher sub-pixel count, less SDE, higher refresh rates, has an extra cushion for small heads and looks great with a removable front cover and expansion slot.

Vive Pro has better blacks so if you play lots of dark games like ED then it’s this might be better.

I like to play No Mans Sky that has plenty of bright and colourful planets to explore so the lens glare is not an issue.

If you can, try both with the games you like to play because the ultimate decision maker is your own eyes.
I don't own either but out of those 2 surely an index is almost the no brainer?
 

ArmitageShanks

Well-known Member
I don't own either but out of those 2 surely an index is almost the no brainer?
Almost ;) As a complete package, the Index would be a nobrainer.

As a single HMD upgrade, the Index would certainly win on comfort and audio, but I don't like giving up the OLED blacks and colours. Horses for courses...I'm certainly not regretting getting the Pro over the Index :cool:
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
Almost ;) As a complete package, the Index would be a nobrainer.

As a single HMD upgrade, the Index would certainly win on comfort and audio, but I don't like giving up the OLED blacks and colours. Horses for courses...I'm certainly not regretting getting the Pro over the Index :cool:
I actually read your reply after I posted. . The loss of oled I forgot about
 

angrybird

Well-known Member
I had owned DK1, DK2, Rift, Rift S Now, here is my take

S is LCD and Rift is oled, however unless you are watching black screen, I will take the LCD any day.
the pentile display is a pain with SDE.

Vive have smaller sweet spot, while the Index have better viewing

I liked the rift S because of inside out tracking and price.

if I wanted to splurdge I would choose index over Vive any time.

however, Rift has exclusive content which is actually good, and most games are optimized for the rift.

The Rift S, while low res, it strikes good balance with min SDE (to be truthful I cannot see it unless I am looking for it in certain scenes) but the problem with the resolution, is that you cannot resolve distant objects.

goes without saying, running such high resolution at solid 80+ (and trust me you do not want to drop FPS too much)

to make matter worse, there are two view points to render.

this is why VR titles look cartoony, and not as good as mainstream monitor gaming.

add to that, that only "AAA" games for VR are first-party from Oculus, which is why I think its the better choice if you are on a budget.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
Pick:

Higher refresh rate , mild FOV boost and less SDE vs wireless functionality and superior black levels.


Best advice I can give you is try to find an Oculus Quest and a Rift S or Index and compare the black levels. If you're okay with grey instead of black, and you don't mind no wireless functionality at presence, then the Index is a no brainer. If those two are high on your list, then...


________

You can still get the knuckles on the vive pro so the controller is a non issue.The tracking is the same.

Personally I think the 120hz refresh rate for most high end games is not going to even come into play (e.g. Fully modded skyrim at 90hz is hard enough). The Index will be better for reading text, but most space games which require reading text will much prefer the black levels of a Vive Pro.

The Vive Pro was the biggest rip off in the VR industry until the Index was announced and released. Now it looks like a much better buy tbh.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
All those that own the Index will say Index all those that own Vive Pro will say Vive Pro and those that don’t own either will say RiftS.

I own 4 HMDs and Index is the best overall package imo. I’ve played over 70 hours in No Mans Sky alone and Index is so comfy and easy on the eyes you don’t feel the need to take it off even after hours of play.

The latest batch of Knuckle controllers are now devoid of issues.

Tracking on Vive Pro will be identical to Index.

I’ve never used a Vive Pro or had the chance to compare it to the Index but the main difference are these. The Vive Pro uses OLED screens so gives you deeper blacks over Index but Vive Pro also uses Pentile displays with far less sub pixels over Index which will have much reduced SDE.

Vive Pro uses the old Fresnel lenses from OG Vive which has pronounced rings where as Index has zero Fresnel rings but does have more glare in high contrast scenes. I prefer the Index lenses over Vives. (Index just had a firmware update and you can now adjust the brightness although I’ve not tried this yet.)

Vive Pro has built in headphones that were criticised at launch for lacking bass. Index has been praised highly for its off ear speakers. I like them. The Vive Pro was criticised at release for Mic popping, Index has a top quality Mic. I don’t know if the problems with the Vive Pro were eventually fixed.

Index has wider FOV than the Vive Pro but this is dependant on headsize, eye position etc. I measured Index at 115 degrees which in my case is 20 degrees more than the Vive. Vive Pro should be the same as the Vives.

You can buy Knuckles for either headset but it works out cheaper if you buy the full Index package.

Vive Pro - £799 Index - £460.
Or get Index and Knuckles for less than Vive Pro. Unless you find a good deal on the Vive Pro.

For me Index is a no brainer, it’s cheaper by far with better lenses, higher sub-pixel count, less SDE, higher refresh rates, has an extra cushion for small heads and looks great with a removable front cover and expansion slot.

Vive Pro has better blacks so if you play lots of dark games like ED then it’s this might be better.

I like to play No Mans Sky that has plenty of bright and colourful planets to explore so the lens glare is not an issue.

If you can, try both with the games you like to play because the ultimate decision maker is your own eyes.

Don't trust people on the forum giving their very big big opinions without having used the hardware.

Find a Vive Pro which you can demo and make the decision for yourself before you have these fanboys telling you black levels don't matter.

We're on an AVForums where we all spend god knows how much money chasing the perfect black levels. No doubt there is a compromise between SDE and black levels but please try out both and guide your own purchase rather than just following someone else's biased opinions.
 

ArmitageShanks

Well-known Member
For goodness sake, do not buy a Vive Pro at full retail price. There are a few knocking about on the usual auction sites at half the price since I suspect a lot of Pro owners are flogging them off to get an Index.

I'm pretty sure an Index would look clearer, but I can't fault the Pro I've got - it actually looks fantastic. The SDE is still there, but it's a very fine mesh. I wish the Vive had these displays to begin with!
 

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