Vista and the 360...

OldAndSenile

Active Member
... For "Premium", read "More expensive"? :thumbsdow

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4754462.stm

Somehow, I'm not surprised, but having to buy a more expensive version of an operating system to get something we were told Vista would do anyway, seems a bit cheeky to me!

Six versions of Vista is going to cause an awful lot of confusion, surely?
 

Steve-L

Well-known Member
I don't think it should cause too much confusion, like it says we already have XP Home, Pro, Tablet PC, MCE. I'm sure many home users would rather not pay a premium for features they will likely never use... personally I'd rather have the choice... mind you a lot will depend on their pricing structure :rolleyes:
 

ParmMann

Active Member
I'm really looking forward to Vista, as I do all new OS releases. Vista looks like it'll be a great OS, and I'm eagerly anticipating any new functionality for the 360 :)
 

Noggin1980

Distinguished Member
One of the reasons there are so many versions of Vista is because of the EU and their anti competative rules. MS have to release versions of their operating system that lack certain things so that people that want to use programmes provided by companies other than microsoft don't have to have microsofts programmes too ie no windows media player 11.

I don't really understand it personally, as long as microsoft bundling software with the OS doesn't prevent 3rd party programmes running I don't see the problem.

We seem to see alot of protection for companies from the EU but a real lack of any consumer protection

These EU friendly editions though arn't actually counted in your list. There is a total of 9 versions of vista.

One version of vista is also for developing countries.

Here is full in depth discription and comparision of the different versions

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_editions.asp

I belive that if you buy one of the "lesser" versions you can just pay a small fee to "unlock" the other things you don't have. Rather than have to go and buy a new version and reinstall. I'm not 100% certain on that though.
 

WelshBluebird

Well-known Member
I wouldn't really moan about having to pay a little more for premium.
In reality, premium is more of an equal to XP home than Vista home basic is anyway.
From the bbc link
The Home Basic version is intended for those who only want to use their PC to browse the net, use e-mail and create and edit basic documents

So even if home basic did have media centre, I would get premium anyway, as it's more suited to what I use my computer for - ie - media etc.
Also orginally, it did seem that MS was only going to have media centre in ultimate, so i'm glad they've changed their minds

edit - just wondering, from that link given by Noggin1980, it says the ultimate edition is aimed at students? How they hell do they expect students to be able to afford the most expensive version?
 

Noggin1980

Distinguished Member
edit - just wondering, from that link given by Noggin1980, it says the ultimate edition is aimed at students? How they hell do they expect students to be able to afford the most expensive version?

When at uni a few years ago we could buy student licences of products like office that were fully featured but cost a fraction of the price. Ie 40 pounds ish instead of a couple of hundred. No idea if that will be the case here or not.

There is also the fact they could be talking about the version they think would be best for universitys to put on their own machines rather than talking about the individual students computers.

I don't think its aimed at students particually though, its just going to be the best and most expensive version so they will simply want as many people as possible to take it up.

I think its likely I'll be going with home premium but I guess I'll see when the prices are released and depending on what OS is bundled with most new PCs. As I'm waiting for Vista and HDCP ready things to upgrade myself.

Sounds like its going to be a great operating system, there are some good reviews about it on the site I linked too and the guy is very unbiased (ie he uses firefox browser instead of IE and is quite happy to say its better). Though if you plan to read the reviews its probably best to wait a week or so for him to review the Febuary version of windows Vista.
 
D

Deleted member 92943

Guest
When sthis new version of windows meant to be out. Windows XP Home looks so dated and as Windows 64 XP never made it to these shores by 64 bit processor wants a new OS to take advantage of what i have
 

OldAndSenile

Active Member
Thing is, looking at the specs for the "Home" versions, the Aero windows effects is only available on the "Premium" version.. I hope that doesn't mean that other things that require the higher-end graphics things for Vista also force you to have Premium - for example, the next release of Halo on the PC, which is already being touted as Vista only?

I suppose until the prices come out, it's all a case of "wait and see" - for all we know, Billy G may have decided he's got enough money now, and he's going to sell Windows Vista Ultimate installs for 9-99 each :smashin:
 

stu.artd

Well-known Member
I'm running a beta version of vista alongside win XP. Initial impression is that it definitely looks nicer, but the added security features are a pain and at this stage they severely limit the usability of the OS.

As far as 64 bit goes, I have a full version of that as well, but there is very limited driver support for it. It's really not worth bothering with in my opinion.

In case anyone wonders where I obtained the software, I have a MS Technet Plus subscription.

There are still student and teacher versions of Office available, they retail at around £120 or so.
 

Munkey Boy

Distinguished Member
Noggin1980 said:
One of the reasons there are so many versions of Vista is because of the EU and their anti competative rules. MS have to release versions of their operating system that lack certain things so that people that want to use programmes provided by companies other than microsoft don't have to have microsofts programmes too ie no windows media player 11.

I don't really understand it personally, as long as microsoft bundling software with the OS doesn't prevent 3rd party programmes running I don't see the problem.

We seem to see alot of protection for companies from the EU but a real lack of any consumer protection
It's funny you say that Noggin, because the reason the EU made MS take out Media Centre was to promote competition. The theory goes that by ensuring that when you install your OS you haven't immediately got a Media Player too, you then have to choose which one you want. This makes Windows Media Player have less of a monopoly (again, in theory) and allows greater competition.

So the reason they did it is for consumer protection, not company protection. The US is very much the other way around, where companies can get away with murder as the US government is very protective of the right for companies to do what they see fit.
 

Noggin1980

Distinguished Member
It's funny you say that Noggin, because the reason the EU made MS take out Media Centre was to promote competition. The theory goes that by ensuring that when you install your OS you haven't immediately got a Media Player too, you then have to choose which one you want. This makes Windows Media Player have less of a monopoly (again, in theory) and allows greater competition.

So the reason they did it is for consumer protection, not company protection. The US is very much the other way around, where companies can get away with murder as the US government is very protective of the right for companies to do what they see fit.

I realise its for competition purposes (though anti competitive rules was the wrong way to describe it, I should have said anti trust laws). I don't see how getting a free media player that doesn't prevent you useing other media players is bad for the consumer. I feel the anti trust laws are to protect other companies rather than meaning much for us the consumer. Although of course competition generally is good for us. So I feel its for company protection although doesn't do us any harm.

To be honest though I don't really see why Microsoft should have to produce a substandard product in order to make it easier for other companies to compete. I think a company should produce the best they can and if someone is able to make something better then great. If microsoft was preventing other media software working with windows then they would be doing something wrong in my eyes, but as far as I'm aware that isn't the case.

My comments about them being about company protection and not consumer protection are about the fact they challenge anything that they belive is preventing competition such as bundleing media player but don't challenge the things that prevent us using content we have paid for such as HDCP and AACS and DRM, in fact the laws are to protect the companys and not us.

I'm not convinced I've put my point accross very well, but I'm required in bed.
 

Steve-L

Well-known Member
I realise its for competition purposes (though anti competitive rules was the wrong way to describe it, I should have said anti trust laws). I don't see how getting a free media player that doesn't prevent you useing other media players is bad for the consumer. I feel the anti trust laws are to protect other companies rather than meaning much for us the consumer. Although of course competition generally is good for us. So I feel its for company protection although doesn't do us any harm.

Think back to the Netscape vs Internet Explorer war... Microsoft wouldn't let PC makers include an icon to any other browser on "their" desktop... so most end users just used IE... result: Netscape went from being a market leader to a bit part player... so I would agree that it is primarily for company protection... but I guess a knock-on effect could be a lack of choice for the consumer... who knows how things might have developed if IE hadn't dominated the browser market for so long...

To be honest though I don't really see why Microsoft should have to produce a substandard product in order to make it easier for other companies to compete. I think a company should produce the best they can and if someone is able to make something better then great. If microsoft was preventing other media software working with windows then they would be doing something wrong in my eyes, but as far as I'm aware that isn't the case.

Well imagine what would happen if Micrsoft included a full featured "free" anti-virus package with windows... what would that do to the likes of Symantec, etc. The problem is 99% of PC's come with Windows (and thus "free" software") pre-installed so your typical end user isn't going to go out and buy another AV package when they already have one... and yes some come bundled with Symantec AV... but OEM's wouldn't bother doing that if there was already a free MS one on there...

My comments about them being about company protection and not consumer protection are about the fact they challenge anything that they belive is preventing competition such as bundleing media player but don't challenge the things that prevent us using content we have paid for such as HDCP and AACS and DRM, in fact the laws are to protect the companys and not us.

Have to agree with that - I hate Microsofts DRM... and I will never buy anything that is protected in this way until they sort out some fairer useage policy for users :thumbsdow
 

Noggin1980

Distinguished Member
Microsoft wouldn't let PC makers include an icon to any other browser on "their" desktop...

I certainly agree that is anti competative, If microsoft perposefully try to stop other peoples products then I agree with the EU calling them out on it. But I don't think that MS shouldn't be allowed to bundle to bundle their software with windows to provide the best deal for the consumer.

Well imagine what would happen if Micrsoft included a full featured "free" anti-virus package with windows... what would that do to the likes of Symantec, etc. The problem is 99% of PC's come with Windows (and thus "free" software") pre-installed so your typical end user isn't going to go out and buy another AV package when they already have one... and yes some come bundled with Symantec AV... but OEM's wouldn't bother doing that if there was already a free MS one on there...

It's a good point but we already have plenty of examples of it happening. Microsoft already include Internet explorer and its a huge competative advantage but does that mean they should have to make a version of windows without it? Vista includes a full anti spywear programme called windows defender which is meant to be very impressive (although I don't know if its in all versions of vista) what will that do to the current anti spywear programmes? I'm not sure I understand why some companies get EU's protection ie no windows media player in certain versions so the likes of Real player can compete but the same isn't true of internet explorer which makes it harder for firefox. We have all sorts of software bundled with windows, little games, a calculator, a firewall, system tools. I'm just not sure I undertand why the rules are so selective.

Have to agree with that - I hate Microsofts DRM... and I will never buy anything that is protected in this way until they sort out some fairer useage policy for users

There are even examples of DRM being (imo at least) stoping competition. Take itunes drm for example. If you spend years building a library of music from itunes and then decide you want a new player you are stuck with apple, you can't legally play your purchased music on anything else (I'm aware its easy to buypass). What about if you want an mp3 player for your car, again it has to be apple or you can't play your library of music (do apple even do car mp3 players?). I think that tying people into one brand of product (especially since the majority don't even realise) far more prevents competition than bundleing software with your operating system.

Sorry I didn't mean to take this off topic. Vista after a shaky start really seems to be shaping up to be a fantastic and very beutiful operating system. I hope it arrives quickly because the Jet engine I call a computer now really needs to go.

The guy who writes the site I linked too is back from vacation yesturday so hopefully we should get a review in the next couple of day of the Febuary CTP of vista which is hopefully going to be the first version with all features in tact.
 

Steve-L

Well-known Member
Yes, it's sooo easy to go off-topic/on a tangent... So in a nutshell:

Enforcement of rules: I agree is selective and probably directly correlates to those competitors that have enough clout to cause MS some trouble. It should be enforced across the board...

Anti-Spyware: MS Anti-Spyware (now known as Defender) isn't too great. I was going to make a contraception anology but to keep it clean I will just say don't rely on that alone to keep you safe ;)

DRM: Agree again - it actually encourages users to infringe the copy-protection in order to use tracks "normally". Don't know if there is a dedicated iTunes ICE head unit but there are loads of gadgets for using an iPod in your car :)

Oh and I can't wait for Vista to come out :)
 

Noggin1980

Distinguished Member
Sounds like a pretty good summary :thumbsup:

The defender I was talking about was the one for vista that is still in beta but has had very good reviews so far. It will work with xp but really comes into its own when on a vista system aparantly.

I guess we won't truely know till its released weather or not it can do the job on its own.
 

mark.carline

Active Member
Noggin1980 said:
I belive that if you buy one of the "lesser" versions you can just pay a small fee to "unlock" the other things you don't have. Rather than have to go and buy a new version and reinstall. I'm not 100% certain on that though.

Yep - I think you may find that there will be ONE disk for Vista for all versions and you basically choose a version when you install it and if you want to upgrade to a higher version then you can simply just unlock to a higher version.

A great way to get MCE without all the fuss of reinstalls etc.

Wonder how long it will be before VistaCrack.exe or VistaKeyGen.exe is released.....Hmmmm.
 

colinwheeler

Active Member
lee_c00per said:
When sthis new version of windows meant to be out. Windows XP Home looks so dated and as Windows 64 XP never made it to these shores by 64 bit processor wants a new OS to take advantage of what i have

I have a copy of Windows XP 64 bit at home that came in my Action Pack subscription. I am sure you should be able to get it here?
 

colinwheeler

Active Member
....Other than that, roll on Vista :thumbsup: and to be honest I hope it is a great success for MS. As a company they are a bit victimised (NO, I don't want to start a flame war) due to the competition like Real being able to generate these massive suits against them and the EU taking the whole thing to the n-th degree to make it seem like they are protecting the innocent consumer.

I personally think thier software does the job (better than most the alternative I believe) and makes my life (for 1) a hell of a lot easier so keep up the great work.
 
D

Deleted member 92943

Guest
colinwheeler said:
I have a copy of Windows XP 64 bit at home that came in my Action Pack subscription. I am sure you should be able to get it here?

How do i go about this?
 

colinwheeler

Active Member
You can get a trial here (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/trial.mspx) I think and I would suggest this is a good idea as most 99% off apps that you would run under windows won't be optimized to get any benefit. I don't think you would see any benefit really to loading this OS but give it a try and let us know if it does improve things.

If you can't get a trail from there contact MS UK and ask them or join up the Action Pack subscription for IT professionals that want to evaluation MS software. If you search for Action Pack on the UK site you should find it or let me know.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Star Wars Andor, Woman King, more Star Trek 4K, Rings of Power & the latest TV, movies & 4K releases
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Sky set to launch its plug-and-play Sky Stream solution
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Movies Podcast: 26th September 2022
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
AV Podcast: 26th September 2022
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
REL Acoustics announces new Serie HT subwoofer trio
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Marantz set to launch new Cinema Series of AV receivers
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom