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Visiting engineer- EEK!

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Nyquil Driver, Mar 12, 2002.

  1. Nyquil Driver

    Nyquil Driver
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    I contacted Hi-Spek about my JVC AV28S2EK and they said an engineer will have to inspect it prior to any kind of replacement/exchange. That's fair enough in theory, but I believe Hi-Spek use Endeva (gasp!) and several people on this forum have described them as clueless and incompetent. So, understandbly, I'm really dreading some moron turning up with an unhelpful "Looks allright to me" attitude.

    The problem with the set is relatively esoteric and that's what's worrying me the most. I've mentioned it before, but basically:- When watching anamorphic R2 DVD's you can see a pattern of lines at both edges of the picture. They're most noticeable when someone walks into frame at the side of the picture, or when 2 people are having a conversation in a widescreen film (because both are situated at either corner of the image). The lines aren't especially intrusive on their own, but they make whatever they're on top of look bitty/degraded. With NTSC material (and normal TV), you can only see tolerable dots where the lines would be and I'm prepared to live with those. If you watch R2 DVD's in 4:3 letterbox mode and then zoom-in on the picture, you only get the dots. Obviously that's no solution in the long-term though and one of the major benefits of a WS TV (costing £750 in this case!) is anamorphic display of 16:9 images.

    So, what's the best way to deal with the engineer?. Can I insist he takes it away even if he seems reluctant to do so? (not sure of my rights or his responsibilities). Just wondered... Do you think I'd be better off lousing up the geometry in the service menu and complain about that aswell/instead?. That wouldn't be particularly dishonest because the geometry actually was god-awful when I received it and things scrolling up/down still look a bit 'wibbly' even now (in the same way left/right scrolling looks slightly awry on some widescreen TV's). I guess I'm just scared that he'll dismiss the fault as "within spec" or something.

    Anyway, it's my first time in this situation so I'll be thankful for any kind of input whatsoever....
     
  2. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Find a bit in some or several DVD which illustrates the problem and play them to him.
     
  3. js

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    As i've had the misfortune of Endeva coming to my house and agreeing there were problem/s with my set, they then warned me it would have to be taken to a workshop - errr no thanks.
    Had loads of trouble trying to swap the set with Debenhams (they insisted no one had complained about Endeva before- funny that I could have sworn someone on this forum had a very nasty experience with them, I mentioned this to Debenhams who eventually agreed I could swap the set).
    After all that pollava (spelt wrong but nevermind :) ) Endeva had the cheek to tell Debenhams the set was fixed by the engineer when he came round, he did nothing apart from offer to wave his degaussing wand around the TV to fix the convergence problems - how that would fix it nobody knows. This is the sort of company you will have to deal with, as I said before one other forum member had a very unpleasant experience with them.
    All you can do is get the DVDs that show up the problem in the worst way possible, oh and offer them a cup of tea/coffee, when I did this the engineer had to take a step back in surprise saying no one ever offered him a drink :D
     
  4. Nyquil Driver

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    Thanks for the advice guys.

    I've started going though my DVD collection trying to find the best (or worst) examples of the fault. I tried e-mailing JVC directly to begin with (in the false hope they'd step-in themselves), but I just got the stock "We've never heard of any such fault before". When I e-mailed them with more specific details (and links to sites with other peoples comments), they stopped replying altogether.

    Going by what you say js, the engineer will probably just try de-gaussing the set (to absolutely no effect) and then call it a day. I desperately wish I'd bought it from somewhere else now though...

    Note to anyone buying a TV these days:- Good after-sales service should be a priority when choosing a retailer. A cheaper price (or quick delivery) count for nothing in the long-run.
     
  5. M.Joshi

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    With most manufacturers, you don't have to use the repair company that is designated to your retailer. If you contact the manufacturer, they should be able to supply you with a local repair company or even send their own engineers.
     
  6. Nyquil Driver

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    Well, I guess wheels are in motion now..

    I don't know if it was Endeva or not TBH. The card I was left says "MTV Service Centre" on it and I didn't hear the name 'Endeva' used by the guy who came (or when I rang the number given to me by Hi-Spek for that matter).

    In any case, the engineer inspected my S2 on Thursday morning and all things considered, it went fairly well. I offered him a drink, but he said he wouldn't have time (it's the thought that counts though!). When I showed him the lines on DVD playback he agreed straight away that it was a fault and he asked what normal TV was like. I said it was okay but I showed him some tuner images anyway and pointed out the bearable dots. I explained that they're the same problem, just to a lesser extent. To my amazement, he agreed again and added "The picture's a bit grainy aswell"(!).

    Obviously, this was music to my ears and when he said he'd need the serial N.O because he was going to ring JVC, I was overjoyed!. He did take a chunk out of my wooden stand when he turned the set round though and I wasn't too impressed when he knocked one of my Mission speakers to the floor either (clutz!). Still, I'll be using the S2's stand if I can get a replacement and the speaker (thankfully) wasn't damaged. so I'll let him off.

    That's what happened anyway.... he came, he saw, he buggered off. He was suspiciously swift actually and I haven't heard anything from him since (surely he could have rang to let me know what the plan is?). I hope he wasn't just fobbing me off with false promises in order to leave more quickly. I did draw the curtains before he arrived because the lines are MUCH more intrusive in low-light conditions. Hopefully that was what made his visit such a "no-brainer" and he knows what he's doing.
     
  7. John Jennings

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    Doesn't sound like endeva. The service sheets they leave are green A4 and have the words ENDEVA in big letters at the top.

    My tale of woe with them is that when they once 'repaired' my TV it came back with the lower right bowing in by 3cm! 3cm! The guy told me screen edges are never perfectly straight and that it was tolerable! I demanded they take it away and get it put right. After this the 'engineer' had a sulk and wouldn't speak to me again, he just packed it up, ignored any further questions and took it away! Never even replied to my 'goodbye' It was like he was having a tantrum! The set came back slightly better, but not acceptably (the guy who returned it could see the problem) so I ended up getting a replacement...

    Good luck with your repair anyway Nyquil. At least this guy has acknowledged the problem so at least he'll have a go at repairing it. Hope it goes well!
     
  8. Guest

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    Hi,

    When Hi-Spek sent engineers to my house - they selected a local dealer that certainly was not Endeva. So I would guess that Endeva just happen to the local engineer for some ... :0)

    Cheers
    Daz
     
  9. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    First time round with me Unbeatable sent a local guy. He had a look, scratched his head and then said he'd have to take it the repair depot in Northampton. This turned out to be Endeva. I guess they use local guys for the initial lookover and then send it off to Endeva if it's more than something simple that the local guy can correct in his garage...
     
  10. Nyquil Driver

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    Ah! thanks for that info John/daz. That might explain why he was unusually co-operative and hurried then?. If JVC say the fix is a complicated procedure then he can just pass the responsibility onto Endeva. If they say it's something mind-numbingly simple to rectify, then he'll have no qualms about doing it (so, in effect, he can't lose)...

    John- your dealings with Endeva were obviously very unpleasant and I take your comments as a warning. You have to wonder exactly why the guy would be so obstructive and unhelpful though, I mean, it's not like he's losing out personally or anything (and I'll bet his TV doesn't have 3cm of bowing either!). I'm fairly worried that I'll eventually be told the problem is a "characteristic" of the set and that it's a bearable one. If so, I'm more than willing to endure snubbing/aggrevation if it means I can have a fault-free set afterwards.

    The local engineer STILL hasn't got back to me BTW (how long does it take to make one phone call? he's had 4 working days already!). If he doesn't contact me tomorrow then I'll ring the service centre and ask what's happening....
     
  11. John Jennings

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    Any update Nyquil? Just curious to see what happened...
     
  12. Nyquil Driver

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    Well, I got a call the day after my previous post on this thread and the guy asked "What DVD player do you have?" (/SIGH!!/). I explained that it wouldn't make any difference if I used a £1500 Arcam because the fault was with the set itself (and it's present on every mode/input anyway). It obviously wasn't the same guy who came to my house because the information he had on my complaint was quite sketchy. He informed me that "We've contacted JVC about the problem with and so far we've drawn a blank".

    I then described the the dotty lines to him in the same amount of detail as I have on these forums and he did seem to take my comments on board. He said that he's got more to go on now and that he'll get back to me. I was pleased that he seemed helpful and interested in my complaint at the time, but that was nearly a week ago now (the silence is deafening!).

    I'm getting nervous that too much time is passing and that Hi-Spek will use it against me when I speak to them again. No doubt they'll say "Well, you've had it a month now! We can't really help you...". As I've mentioned elsewhere, I no longer have the box/packaging for the set itself, so I'm not in a strong bargaining position really. I do have the stand in its original box and the manual/warranty etc, but the longer this goes on, the more I feel like I'm stuck with it....

    If they ring back and say they'll need to take it away for repair, can I refuse and insist on a credit-note instead? (I'm not sure what my rights are). I don't think there's any point getting a new S2 because (after reading the current JVC threads) it looks like they all have this quirk in one form or another.
     
  13. John Jennings

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    Did you REPORT the fault to them the 28 days? If so, I believe you can ask for a replacement and just tell them to forget the repair. However, IIRC, once the magical 28 days are up you can't ask for a refund :(

    If the fault is 'unrepairable' though then I believe you can get a replacement or a credit note. Getting them to agree that it's 'unrepairable' could be difficult though. If they're like Unbeatable I believe it's got to be sent to an engineer's three times, or you've got to get the engineer to agree that the set is unrepairable.

    Good luck,
    John
     
  14. Nyquil Driver

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    That's why it's such a tricky situation though as the problem is BOTH 'unrepairable' and potentially tolerable at the same time. I reported the fault 8 days after delivery, but whether this particular flaw is serious enough for a money-back return is probably debatable.

    When I first noticed the lines, I assumed that swapping the set for a new S2 would be the answer, but I don't think that will make any difference actually (going by other recent threads and what I've seen in showrooms). So a credit-note or a different model is the only real solution.

    It doesn't sound like I've got much of a case in all honesty, as if EVERY set does it, then it's technically not a fault is it?. I'd argue that at this price-point it's totally unacceptable, but I have to say I'm not too hopeful now. They've not rang me back yet either BTW! (what is the big hold-up?!!).

    I'll phone them myself tomorrow and see if I can speed things up a bit. If I do have to keep this set then I want to know ASAP because then at least I can look into ways of selling it on. I could probably sell it for more than I need for a Philips 6006 (maybe even making a 'profit'!), so it wouldn't be a complete disaster. I've thought about offering to pay Hi-Spek the difference for a new Philips pixel-plus 9617, but I don't know if they'd go for it or not. I can't really do anything until these engineers stop pratting me about anyway....
     
  15. GETanner

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    As you made the first complaint 8 days after delivery you are entitled to a full refund in cash or what ever method of payment you made under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, as amended 1994 and 1995.

    Have a look at http://www.consumer.gov.uk/CACP/ca/advice/saleofgoods/unsatis.htm for a good laymans piece on the Act.

    A useful standard letter can be found at http://www.adviceline.org.uk/pages/subpages/letter1.htm

    A useful site on How to Complain can be found at http://www.consumers.gov.uk/consumer_web/complain.htm

    Another good advice site is http://www.adviceline.org.uk/pages/rights.htm

    The DTI have a good consumer advice page here http://www.dti.gov.uk/CACP/ca/advice/saleofgoods/unsatis.htm

    And if you want a copy of the Act's amendments (1979 Act is not available electronically), take a look at

    Sale of Goods (Amendment) Act 1994
    http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/Ukpga_19940032_en_1.htm

    Sale of Goods (Amendment) Act 1995 (c. 28)
    http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1995/Ukpga_19950028_en_1.htm

    Good luck.

    Guy
     
  16. GETanner

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  17. Nyquil Driver

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    Guy (GETanner):- BIG thanks!!.

    After reading those links (and psyching myself up!) I rang Hi-Spek and said I wanted to return the TV. I said an engineer has confirmed the fault but I'm (categorically!) not interested in a repair or a replacement.....

    To my utter amazement, they agreed without an argument and were apologetic that the earliest pick-up date isn't until after the weekend (Wed the 3rd). So, as you can imagine, I was thrilled at this point in the conversation!. A rather ominous condition was then mentioned though- They have to check the set for a fault at their end BEFORE coughing-up a refund/alternative (I don't like the sound of that at all!!). I can envisage the phone-call now "We couldn't find anything wrong with it, so it's winging its way back to you now and we've deducted the cost of delivery from your account aswell"!!. Still, I may aswell be optimistic until that actually happens.

    BTW- the 'packaging' issue proved inconsequential as the pick-up guys just wrap it in bubble-wrap anyway (and as someone else said.. you don't pay extra for the box, so you have no obligation). I think it helped that I asked for a more expensive set in return (the Philips 28PW9617), so it's not as if I'm robbing them or anything. I didn't expect to get very far with the phone call actually, so when asked what set I wanted instead I just sort of blurted it out (I even had to check it was the right model N.O afterwards!), it would be just my luck to ask for the wrong one, meaning I'd have to call them back later and stir it all up again!.

    The Philips is an expensive model, but it doesn't seem very expensive to me right now (because I'm just paying the difference obviously). I'd never have dreamt of spending SO much on a TV set a few months ago, but it feels like a necessity right now (I'll just be relieved to get rid of this S2 in all honesty). An unsatisfactory TV is one thing, but an unsatisfactory £700+ TV is quite another!....

    Anyway, so far, so good (thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread). I'm not going to get TOO excited though as I'm not out of the woods just yet....
     
  18. Jon Weaver

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    Good luck. I had exactly the same situation with my first Sony KV36FS70 from Empire Direct.

    That was diagnosed to be faulty.. Empire Direct agreed to replace it.. BUT.. They wanted to confirm the fault themselves.

    I spent ages writing a length report describing all the problems in detail.

    The couriers came.. Picked up the TV.. No box.. They didn't mind, as they had a bit (and I mean a bit) of polystyrene and a washing line..

    They tied it to the side of the van and left.......

    When I rang Empire Direct a week later to find out what was going on, they adivsed that when the set arrived "it didn't work".. They opened up the back and "the insides fell out"

    Fortuantly, that was THEIR problem and I got a new TV.

    So, fingers crossed.. The TV won't make it to the other end safely anyway and you will get your wish!
     
  19. GETanner

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    Glad to help, and it seems like the outcome will be the one you want.

    As jon mentioned in his post.

    There is nothing more helpful than an indepth report on the fault, how to replicate the fault, what the fault looks like etc.

    Don't forget to mention in the report that their engineer who initially examined the set in your house also found the set to be faulty.

    Hope it is resolved quickly for you.

    Guy
     
  20. shez316

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    I noticed you said you were getting the Philips 28 9617. I thought this set was only available at 32 or above. How much does it cost? And good luck with the swap!
     
  21. Nyquil Driver

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    Maybe I should tamper with the van's breaks while they're in the house? (is that going too far?).

    Hmmn, that would be for the best though wouldn't it (a broken TV I mean, not killing delivery men!), at least that way there'd be no judgement call involved. I'm really worried about what Hi-Spek's interpretation of 'faulty' might be and I'm petrified that I'll have to take the set back in the end (with the addition of a few scratches/dents of course).

    I've already given them an in-depth description of the problem (it's stored on their database), but if they say they can't see anything then I'll have to try and convince them over the phone. Their engineer has already said it's faulty, so if they choose to dispute that fact now then they're basically saying their own engineer is wrong!. I'm clinging to the "fit for use" part of the Sale of Goods Act anyway as the TV isn't fit for use as regards DVD's, therefore I'm entitled to a replacement. If they truly think it's fault-free then it shouldn't be a problem for them to sell it to someone else.

    You never know though, they might stick to the trend of being surprisingly helpful (I'll let you know what happens after the 5th)....

    shez- Yes, you can get a 66cm version aswell. Empire Direct have had a 28PW9617C on their site for a week or two now (supposedly 'in stock' aswell). They have it priced at £960, but I think the retail price is £1200ish. I didn't get quoted a specific amount from Hi-Spek (I never asked!), but no doubt it will be somewhere inbetween those two figures.
     
  22. Jon Weaver

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    I totally understand your concerns.

    When I saw my TV get 'slid' into the van, my heart sunk. All the little bits of grit on the floor of the van would have made a lovely mess of the bottom of the TV.

    As soon as they took it away, I rang my supplier to tell them that I wasn't happy with the fact that the TV had not been packed correctly.

    In you case, assuming that they don't find the fault and you do get the same TV back... If you find a SINGLE flaw in it, I would say that you have grounds for refund.

    If I were you, I would let things take their course and see what happens.

    When the TV comes back, you could easily find a mark or scratch that wasn't there before.. I don't believe for a mintues that large TV can make it there and back without ANY damage at all!!
     
  23. GETanner

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    If you have easy access to a digital camera, go nuts with it and photograph every inch of the TV, top and bottom, sides, front and back.

    May seem paranoid, but if the worst does happen, you get the set back. You have something to back up any claim.

    (Of course you could, "cough", scratch the set should you get it back and make a claim. But you wouldn;t do that, would you).

    Guy
     
  24. Guest

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    Those lines in the JVC are totally unacceptable - I returned my JVC immediately. All TV's have them to some extent apart from a Panasonic PL1's - at least the ones Ive seen in shops - its just that the JVC's leap right out at you.

    What makes you think the Pixel Plus will be any good? Have you seen one working?

    Im moving towards the whole digital processing on 100hz tv's and the like is a load of crap for the amount of money you pay over a 50hz tv. I bet theres like a hundred quid electronics at most in these £1600 tv's :)
     
  25. Nyquil Driver

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    Jon/Guy- Yes, if the JVC is sent back then Hi-Spek will certainly be hearing from me again...

    I've decided that I will include a written report with the set because that way I can mention one or two other areas of concern (like the squiffy geometry). I'll make it clear that I don't want it back even if they can repair it and I can also mention that the set was already partly tuned-in when I got it (which suggests that someone else had it before me). I wasn't going to bother writing anything down, but I think the more they've got to look for the more chance there is of them finding something wrong....

    XboxJunkie- I haven't seen one myself because the showrooms near me don't have any in stock yet, but the specs for the TV speak for themselves. The new issue of Home Entertainment has a review of the 32PW9617 which describes the set as "The best CRT, bar none" and they awarded it five stars out of five. Every other magazine article and comment I've seen echoes those sentiments.

    As you can probably understand though, my main requirement in a TV right now is that it can display images WITHOUT a pattern of lines at either side. So the jaw-dropping excellence of the Pixel-Plus range is really just a bonus!.
     
  26. Nyquil Driver

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    Okay- This is what happened.....

    Some delivery guys came on Wed 3rd (as promised) and I have to say they were very helpful and professional. When I expressed concern that my 'report' might get lost, they said they'd bubble-wrap the TV with the envelope on the INSIDE. They didn't just protect part of the set either, they used loads of (very thick) wrap and covered it completely.

    So that went well....

    I rang Hi-Spek on Friday to see what was happening and I was told that they hadn't received the TV yet(?). I found that hard to believe (this was two full days later!), but apparently it can take 48hrs+ for pick-ups to get back to them. The customer services assistant didn't waste the opportunity to remind me about 'confirming the fault' again though....

    About an hour after that I got a phone-call which began with the line "About your JVC sir.." which was said in a very 'You are the owner of a JVC S2, get used to it' tone (I didn't like that!). Anyway, I replied "...yes" and the guy at the other end said "We've spoken to JVC again and they haven't got any idea what might be causing lines on one of their TV's, so they're going to have to pick up the set and inspect it for themselves".

    ?!!... There was a LONG pause while I tried to gather my thoughts (and work out which swear words to use!) but I thought I'd better start off with the tactful "but I've already made it clear that I don't want the set back!". Well.. then there was an even longer pause at the other end, so long that I even had to fire-off a couple of "hello?, HELLO??" style prompts before getting a response.

    I'll spare you the rest of the sitcom-esque misunderstandings, but basically the guy at the other end was actually an engineer from the service centre who'd FINALLY decided to contact me with a 'solution' to the problem! (don't they communicate with the companies they're contracted to?!). The (surreal) phone conversation ended with me telling him that I'd already returned the set to the retailer and that I wouldn't be needing any further assistance with the matter. So, after the initial scare, this wasn't bad news after all and it wasn't even Hi-Spek on the other end of the phone (big phew on that one!).
    Saturday came and went, still no contact....

    I waited until about 11.00a.m today and then decided I couldn't hang-on any longer, so phoned Hi-Spek myself (again). After confirming who I was they said "Ah yes, we've checked the JVC and in our opinion it's....

    5
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    4
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    3
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    1
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    "FAULTY!!" !! (Woohoo!!).

    I can't tell you what a relief it was to hear them say that!. Apparently the guy who organises purchases was on holiday last week, so they don't know when they'll be getting any 28" 9617's in stock (that's why they didn't contact me). They said they'll ring me tomorrow with further details though....
     
  27. GETanner

    GETanner
    Active Member

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    NQ.

    That's great news to hear you were the proud owner of a faulty set.

    A happy outcome.

    Hopefully your replacement set will the one you want and it arrives ASAP.

    Regards,

    Guy
     
  28. Nyquil Driver

    Nyquil Driver
    Standard Member

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    Too right!. I'm absolutely beaming with joy about it TBH. Hi-Spek rang me today to say they've got some 28" 9617's coming in on Friday and all being well, I'll get mine early next week....

    So, I'm proud to say the situation has been succesfully resolved and (at the risk of turning this into an 'oscar' speech!) Many Thanks to:-

    Spectre, js, M.joshi, John Jennings, daz, Jon Weaver, shez316, XboxJunkie and Guy for the much-needed moral support and all the valuable information. I think it's fair to say that I'd still be stuck with a duff set if you guys hadn't bothered to post and hopefully others will have found this thread helpful too.

    Basically though (and gushing aside!), all's well that ends well and I'm very happy with the outcome. I'll probably start a new thread when I get my Pixel-Plus replacement (which, I warn you, may well contain further gushing!)....
     
  29. js

    js
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    Excellent news!!
    Hope your new TV is a goodun, I'm well chuffed with my new Loewe Xelos - geometry is spot on, picture is great and sound is actually very good for a TV, doesn't compare to my amp/speakers but still pretty good.
    Let us know how you get on with the new TV.
     

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