Vinyl Bargain or Rip off?

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Yep, that's what it looked like!

It had a dark wood finish, skinny legs, those sliding compartments and the record deck slid out so you could stack your records.

God, it was crap!
 

caoleuk

Standard Member
It's a rip off, pure and simple.

Why buy a Vinyl album for £20 when you can get the CD for £10?

When the two formats were side by side in the past (I didn't buy anything on cassette and MiniDisc passed me by) there wasn't such a huge discrepancy.

Supply and demand is always trotted out as an explanation as if it's a form of justification for greed. It's not. But then the music industry doesn't really care about music, just business.
If you are not able to play vinyl or you were nave around in the 70' 80' you will never understand :)
 

caoleuk

Standard Member
Ha Ha Gibbsy I sooo remember that and holding the pause button when the DJ spoke and trying to get the start of the record without missing the intro :)

Mind you I shop dob you in for that now having been a record industry employee Ha Ha
 

caoleuk

Standard Member
I'm so glad this post has taken off, so many good memories and hopefully a few younger people will be trying out vinyl for the first time due to the comments. (not the cheep record players from HMV though!)
 

gibbsy

Moderator
My 19 year old grandson has zero interest in going from his phone sourced music, likes it on the move. Give him his due he will listen to some of the vintage music in my collection even though he's never heard of half of them and appreciates the audio quality from my kit. He's just started work in Currys and his father gave him some sage advice.

'If you see your grandfather coming into the store......run'.
 

SickSquirrel

Active Member
I gave up on Vinyl years ago (RP8 & Microgroove), unless you buy Audiophile pressings you are wasting your time, my last order of 4 LP's from Amazon resulted in 3 having to go back all with QC / pressing issues.!

What is HiFi about a needle scrapping along a plastic groove, the world has moved on!

Got to love Vinyl lovers, they delude themselves into thinking vinyl is better then digital and the fact is it is not.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
I gave up on Vinyl years ago (RP8 & Microgroove), unless you buy Audiophile pressings you are wasting your time, my last order of 4 LP's from Amazon resulted in 3 having to go back all with QC / pressing issues.!

What is HiFi about a needle scrapping along a plastic groove, the world has moved on!

Got to love Vinyl lovers, they delude themselves into thinking vinyl is better then digital and the fact is it is not.
Why are Vinyl lovers deluded if they like something?

It's not either/or, or at least it doesn't have to be.

Vinyl was the first of the recorded medium you could play domestically. All the various formats have come (cassette, CD) and gone (8-track, MiniDisc, DAT) and yet it still survives. It must be doing something right.
 

simonblue

Distinguished Member
I gave up on Vinyl years ago (RP8 & Microgroove), unless you buy Audiophile pressings you are wasting your time, my last order of 4 LP's from Amazon resulted in 3 having to go back all with QC / pressing issues.!

What is HiFi about a needle scrapping along a plastic groove, the world has moved on!

Got to love Vinyl lovers, they delude themselves into thinking vinyl is better then digital and the fact is it is not.
It not better,but different i feel if people prefer the sound of Vinyl,that's fair enought,room for everybody :)
 

deantown

Distinguished Member
Aaaw! The good old days, when everything was wonderful and cheap as chips. :rotfl:

I've got vinyl LP's but not in a rush to buy a TT.
CD is the way forward, far better sound and less hassle to Play and Store. :)
 

dannnielll

Well-known Member
Why are Vinyl lovers deluded if they like something?

It's not either/or, or at least it doesn't have to be.

Vinyl was the first of the recorded medium you could play domestically. All the various formats have come (cassette, CD) and gone (8-track, MiniDisc, DAT) and yet it still survives. It must be doing something right.
They are not deluded for liking something. They are deluded if they believe it is better. As a quibble it was shellac and clay which was the first audio recorded medium in mass circulation. Vinyl was a later substrate.
CDs still vastly outnumber Vinyl by sales, and plays. DAT and Minidisc have disappeared because semiconductor memory in sd cards is superior for robustness . Digital storage on magnetic hard drives and now including recordable optical CD and DVD for capacity and longitivity.
The world has moved on. Vinyl by its inherent limitations cannot
 

shotokan101

Distinguished Member
Anyone else remember having to tape pennies/half-pennies etc. To the headshell area of the arm on the old stacking/auto-return record players to get them to play problem/warped records?

Jim
 

dannnielll

Well-known Member
Hmm.

In the sixties when I was in my early twenties, I managed a TV and electrical appliance store for a now defunct chain.

Radiogram with a cocktail cabinet?

This was the best seller. 105 guineas. Bleupunkt.
Around £2,300 now

They were very popular with the West Indians who lived in bed sits in North London. They'd come over to work on the buses and the tube. They bought them on the drip. But were always polite and good payers.

View attachment 1217118


Long demo video

Cheat... They did not have Bailey's Irish Cream back in the day!.
 

shotokan101

Distinguished Member
They are not deluded for liking something. They are deluded if they believe it is better. As a quibble it was shellac and clay which was the first audio recorded medium in mass circulation. Vinyl was a later substrate.
CDs still vastly outnumber Vinyl by sales, and plays. DAT and Minidisc have disappeared because semiconductor memory in sd cards is superior for robustness . Digital storage on magnetic hard drives and now including recordable optical CD and DVD for capacity and longitivity.
The world has moved on. Vinyl by its inherent limitations cannot
You are completely and utterly wrong :p

"Better" is an entirely subjective assessment unless there is an agreed definition and means of objectively measuring that criteria - some will simply feel that vinyl sounds "better" than Digital media and as duch who is anyone to say that they are "wrong"?

Am I "wrong" because I thing that Strawberry ice-cream tastes "better" than chocolate ice-cream?

or Volbeat's music is "better" than Bach's?

Jim
 

gibbsy

Moderator
You can't knock anyone for wanting a particular form of music, unless they listen to the Spice Girls, but that's another debate. Vinyl lovers will always press their case (pun intended). Is it nostalgia or are they right. It's their choice. I prefer SACD, sadly I simply cannot get, or indeed afford, all the titles I want. CD comes a strong second provided the mix itself has not been subjected to the dreadful loudness war.

Which is best? Does it really matter. As for kit then no doubt buying a £1800 SACD player would have vinyl lovers looking at me with some wide eyes and some amusement. I can sit back and enjoy both sides of an album, replay my favourite tracks and not worry about a build up of dust and debris on any stylus. Having to leave the comfort of my armchair to turn the disc over, take another ten minutes cleaning the other side and do it all over again. Left that behind in the early 1990s.

Or is that just me being a lazy b******.:)
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
If you want a record by let's say the Beatles chances are you will not find one under £30 (and I'm talking new press not collectible) Yet you you can find say The Band for £8.99.

My point is this.... We are being ripped off! It cost's no more to make a Beatles record than it does a record by the band,
Ive been buying music across multiple formats for decades and it has always been this way.
Certain big names always command a premium and never show up as “ nice price” editions or in bundle promotions.
I remember paying 30 quid for The wall back when it first came out on
CD, and this was when 30 quid was a lot of money.
 

Stupid61

Active Member
Anyone else remember having to tape pennies/half-pennies etc. To the headshell area of the arm on the old stacking/auto-return record players to get them to play problem/warped records?

Jim
Yeah. Buggered several records that way! I don't miss the past :)
Still got all my vinyl though.
 

dannnielll

Well-known Member
You are completely and utterly wrong :p

"Better" is an entirely subjective assessment unless there is an agreed definition and means of objectively measuring that criteria - some will simply feel that vinyl sounds "better" than Digital media and as duch who is anyone to say that they are "wrong"?

Am I "wrong" because I thing that Strawberry ice-cream tastes "better" than chocolate ice-cream?

or Volbeat's music is "better" than Bach's?

Jim
Sorry better does imply objective criteria.The word you were searching for was prefers or preferences
 
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Stupid61

Active Member
Should also have said I agree with Gibbsy about SACD. The few I have are noticeably better to listen to than the standard CD version. Shame my SACD player went bang and I couldn't afford a replacement at the time. I must rectify that.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
They are not deluded for liking something. They are deluded if they believe it is better. As a quibble it was shellac and clay which was the first audio recorded medium in mass circulation. Vinyl was a later substrate.
CDs still vastly outnumber Vinyl by sales, and plays. DAT and Minidisc have disappeared because semiconductor memory in sd cards is superior for robustness . Digital storage on magnetic hard drives and now including recordable optical CD and DVD for capacity and longitivity.
The world has moved on. Vinyl by its inherent limitations cannot
I had a feeling you would reply at some point.

First of all, I stand corrected on the origins of Vinyl in the home - apologies.

Secondly, I'm not sure what sales have to do with anything; being popular doesn't always equate to being good. CD is far more convenient than Vinyl I'll grant you that; to use, to store.

Thirdly, we keep hearing about the world "moving on". That's fine, but some of us (many of us, it seems) are happy to embrace new or current technologies without abandoning everything that came before it. I don't know how this Vinyl versus CD "war" came about, but we don't see something similar in DVD versus Blu-Ray (or 4K) so I'm not sure why this is being perpetuated?

The simple fact is, in the same way that a lot of stuff is only ever released on DVD and not Blu-Ray, a lot of stuff is/was released on Vinyl that has never seen the light of day on CD. So what are you supposed to do?

I don't really get the hatred for Vinyl. I love having a turntable AND CD player (and tape deck too!). It's all about the music, after all, and if it's only available on a particular format, then it makes perfect sense to have the means to reproduce it.
 

dannnielll

Well-known Member
I had a feeling you would reply at some point.

First of all, I stand corrected on the origins of Vinyl in the home - apologies.

Secondly, I'm not sure what sales have to do with anything; being popular doesn't always equate to being good. CD is far more convenient than Vinyl I'll grant you that; to use, to store.

Thirdly, we keep hearing about the world "moving on". That's fine, but some of us (many of us, it seems) are happy to embrace new or current technologies without abandoning everything that came before it. I don't know how this Vinyl versus CD "war" came about, but we don't see something similar in DVD versus Blu-Ray (or 4K) so I'm not sure why this is being perpetuated?

The simple fact is, in the same way that a lot of stuff is only ever released on DVD and not Blu-Ray, a lot of stuff is/was released on Vinyl that has never seen the light of day on CD. So what are you supposed to do?

I don't really get the hatred for Vinyl. I love having a turntable AND CD player (and tape deck too!). It's all about the music, after all, and if it's only available on a particular format, then it makes perfect sense to have the means to reproduce it.
We don't have that war with DVD and Blu-ray for a very good reason .. everyone and their aunt know that Blu-ray is better in every respect. And they know the reasons why. 47 Gb versus 4.7 GB versus 800 Mb on a CD. Stingy people like me will happily pay the few quid less for a DVD than a Blu-ray,knowing the quality is inferior
We can agree that better and popular are not Synonymous. MP3 and streaming downloads is much more popular than purchasing CDs .But CDs are better in sound quality at present. It is technically feasible to stream in better than CD quality, but such sources are few and far between
I don't actually wear the argument that there are albums available on vinyl unique to that medium. ..I am sure that there is plenty of such material , and indeed there is stuff on old 78s which was unique to it. But ..and it is such a simple but,that it ..Every laptop produced since 1990 has a ADC in it which will convert the warbling into digital format and every soundbaster soundcard etc will do it noiselessly. If the recordings have a uniqueness that merits their retention, it can be done at home with 192k, 24 bit accuracy utterly indistinguishable from the record.
I have said it before and repeat again. Anyone is entitled to enjoy the Vinyl experience.. The only objection I have is when they claim an untruth ..That it is better. Facts are still facts.
 

SickSquirrel

Active Member
The other issue is cost, you need to spend at least £2k on a table and phono to compete with a good £300 CD player, and you need to be in the £10k's to compete with a good £1k SACD player.

Vinyl is just not worth the hassle in the modern world, well unless you're a hipster douche bag :devil:
 

oldcootstereo

Active Member
Audio music recording/reproduction has been a technical, marketing and opinion battleground since forever. Cylindrical vs. platter, mono vs. stereo, tape vs. vinyl, 8-track vs. cassette, moving magnet vs. moving coil, etc... and the grand-daddy of them all, tube vs. semiconductors.

Given that Toole proved our ears/brain filters out the "sound" of the room, the allegiance to vinyl may derive from a similar phenomena where the ears/brain filters out the "sound" of the inevitable imperfections of vinyl reproduction. Just like tube amps are often regarded as sounding "better" because the distortion generally produced by tubes tends to be even harmonics, while semiconductor distortion is(was?) perceived as more "harsh" to the ear.

I don't "hate" vinyl, just find the interminable "debate" over which is "better" pointless.

Commonplace lossless digital is AT LEAST equal quality to all but the highest-end vinyl sourced music.

At least a vinyl aficionado gets exercise jumping up regularly to change albums or skip tracks...
 

SickSquirrel

Active Member
I am not adverse to old formats, I still use a MiniDisc recorder on a regular basis to record radio programs from my tuner, as I did with a tape deck when I was growing up in the 80's...

I also use a portable MiniDisc recorder on the train, rather then having all my songs in my pocket ala Ipod. It is nice to select a full album or mix tape (MD) before I leave for work as I have done for the last 23 years.

Interestingly, every week or so some young lad or lass comes over and says "Hey Bruv / Mate / Dude what's that?" And they are actually interested in hearing about the old tech...

My MiniDisc Deck:-

 

shotokan101

Distinguished Member
Sorry better does imply objective criteria.The word you were searching for was prefers or preferences
You better not be trying g to put words in my mouth :rolleyes:
 

shotokan101

Distinguished Member
We don't have that war with DVD and Blu-ray for a very good reason .. everyone and their aunt know that Blu-ray is better in every respect. And they know the reasons why. 47 Gb versus 4.7 GB versus 800 Mb on a CD. Stingy people like me will happily pay the few quid less for a DVD than a Blu-ray,knowing the quality is inferior
We can agree that better and popular are not Synonymous. MP3 and streaming downloads is much more popular than purchasing CDs .But CDs are better in sound quality at present. It is technically feasible to stream in better than CD quality, but such sources are few and far between
I don't actually wear the argument that there are albums available on vinyl unique to that medium. ..I am sure that there is plenty of such material , and indeed there is stuff on old 78s which was unique to it. But ..and it is such a simple but,that it ..Every laptop produced since 1990 has a ADC in it which will convert the warbling into digital format and every soundbaster soundcard etc will do it noiselessly. If the recordings have a uniqueness that merits their retention, it can be done at home with 192k, 24 bit accuracy utterly indistinguishable from the record.
I have said it before and repeat again. Anyone is entitled to enjoy the Vinyl experience.. The only objection I have is when they claim an untruth ..That it is better. Facts are still facts.

....darn it!!! - For a moment there I thought someone had mistakenly thought that this was a discussion about which digital media audio format and/or digital video format was measurably better than others and definitively sounded better than the others - and then I remembered that this discussion was actually about the cost of analogue vinyl records..... Good job I read the OP I guess....


...oh and the word I was actually looking for I now think opinionated Richard 👿

Jim
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
....darn it!!! - For a moment there I thought someone had mistakenly thought that this was a discussion about which digital media audio format and/or digital video format was measurably better than others and definitively sounded better than the others - and then I remembered that this discussion was actually about the cost of analogue vinyl records..... Good job I read the OP I guess....


...oh and the word I was actually looking for I now think opinionated Richard 👿

Jim
Oh, it nearly always gets sidetracked into that tired debate, even though not one person on here has actually said that Vinyl sounds better than CD.

Back OT: it's great that HMV seem to have embraced Vinyl and that there's still a market for new turntables, and I know that quite a few posters have pointed out the relative cost of Vinyl taking inflation into account, but the price discrepancy still seems too great for me.

I never even look at Vinyl when I'm in a shop, I just head straight to the CD's. I also buy less Vinyl than I used to online as the postage costs are just ridiculous compared to the price of receiving a CD.

I dunno. I'm glad it still exists even though I haven't added to my collection for years. I suppose it is the most vulnerable of the physical formats though, amazingly, cassette is making a comeback too, so who knows?
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
Funnily enough after reading the last post by @Derek S-H this turned up on my Google articles.


It says that cassette tapes had been only used for Police interviews but they are being used more generally again and sales are picking up. Why they used cassette tapes to interview Sting and company is beyond me.

Bri
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
Funnily enough after reading the last post by @Derek S-H this turned up on my Google articles.


It says that cassette tapes had been only used for Police interviews but they are being used more generally again and sales are picking up. Why they used cassette tapes to interview Sting and company is beyond me.

Bri
That's a step too far. More wow and flutter than a politician on the election campaign trail. Mind you it would do wonders for the sale of biros as one was always needed to wind the tape back into the cassette, especially in the car.

Talking about cars I can just imagine the advert for the new Golf Mk9. Our infotainment centre features the very latest in music cassette technology with a winding tool neatly located in the glove compartment.:thumbsup:
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
I'm a huge fan of Gil Evans. Way back in the days before CD I read a Melody Maker review of a live concert in Warsaw 1976. I'm a Gil completist so I'm always on the lookout for anything I don't already have but knowing about this meant I had to have it. I looked and looked but never found it. CD came along and I started getting a mix of his new and old albums on the the format. One day I picked up a French import CD callied Gil Evans Live 76. It was only about 6 or 7 quid so I was very happy. There was scant detail about the recording, only the track listing and the band line up.

Some time later we went on a day trip to York and I was delighted to find a vinyl copy of the Warsaw gig in a shop there. It was very expense. It was at least £10, maybe a pound or two more. As it was Gil I didn't care and bought this holy grail of an album. On the way home I started looking at it in more detail. Looking at the track listing and the band line up I started to get a funny feeling. Sure enough when I played it it was the same recording as the French CD. I've never played the second side of the vinyl. I'm not sure if I played all of side one. I always go back to the CD.

Bri
 

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