1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Video Upscaling?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by AngelEyes, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,234
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    Hi Guys,

    I've been a bit preoccupied with looking for a Receiver/Amp with video upscaling like the HK7300. Do projectors upscale the image anyway? So am I wasting my time, does a projector do a better job?

    Not sure if this should be in the projector section... any advice you can offer will be gratefully received!
     
  2. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    24,426
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The Borders
    Ratings:
    +2,592
    AngelEyes

    The Video Up-Conversion feature now becoming common on many mid to high end AV Receivers should be looked on as a convenience feature not a quality improvement (with the odd exception such as the Yamaha Z9).

    The one advantage these units have is to simplify the video connectivity between the AV Receiver and your Display device - you have multiple Video signal types (and cables) on the Inputs of the AV Receiver and only one on Signal Type (and cable) on the Output.

    If your looking for decent video quality from all of your sources you are better not doing any signal conversion in the AV Receiver - for example your projector will likely have a decent S-Video decoder on board whereas your AV Receiver will have a simple S-Video to YUV converter and once the signals converted to YUV your projector cant make a decent job of processing the underlying S-Video signal.

    Only use the Up-Conversion feature for secondary sources which are used infrequently and where your willing to sacrifice a bit of video quality for the convenience of a single video connection.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  3. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,234
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    Hi Joe,

    Thanks for the info, I kind of suspected this might be the case. I am probably going to hold out for a hdmi -> hdmi connection from DVD to projector so I would need at least 2 connections to the projector anyway.

    As I only plan to have 2 video sources (Sky+ and DVD) I don't think it will make any difference to me.

    As an asside I went to Sevenoaks in Cambs last weekend for an open day and they had a demo of the Z9. Unfortunately it seemed to be knackered as it kept dropping either the centre channel or the rear surrounds. I would have been interested in this model but now i don't really know.

    Anyone care to comment on the z9 for a setup with SVS Sub, M&K 850 fronts and 2x column rears?

    Oh and I will need a suitable hdmi ready DVD player???

    Thanks.
     
  4. RTFM

    RTFM
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,014
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Horsham, West Sussex
    Ratings:
    +17
    IMHO the Pioneer 668 & 868 are good value if you need HDMI

    Jeff
     
  5. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    Does the HK 7300 just have an upconversion (e.g. S-Video to Component) or also an upscaling feature, similar to that of the Yamaha DSP-AZ9?

    Might make a difference in answering the question ... :)
     
  6. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,234
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    To be honest I am not sure but you can find the model spec here

    I would be interested in knowing what the difference is though!

    Thanks
     
  7. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    24,426
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The Borders
    Ratings:
    +2,592
    AngelEyes

    Z9 - I must say I'd be hard pushed to want to spend so much on an Integrated box; even one this good!

    As you saw at the weekend apart from any consideration as to it being a master of all technicalities and none too flexible when you want incremental upgrades to your system if one small component goes faulty your whole system is knackered.

    Have a look in the Power Buy Forum - we have a very decent Pre/Power from Atlantic Technology for sub £2.5k and add in a Lumagen VisionHDP video processor at £1.2K (SRP) and your looking at an excellent system that will keep you very happy for a long time and can grow with your budget/requirements if and when you get a case of upgradeitis.

    Adding the Lumagen ahead of the projector is relevant for many sources and many projector - which projector do you have in mind.

    The Lumagen is not all about scaling there's much more to processing the video than just matching pixels - so whilst every projector usually has to 'scale' the incoming video signal it may not do much more work than that to Optimise the video signal to the Display; that's where the Lumagen products step in.

    It may be a while before we see kit with multiple HDMI inputs on - we already supply a range of DVI and HDMI switching and distribution products from the likes of Gefen so its easy to add multiple Digital video signals to a Display or Projector; and the Lumagen processor outlined above has two DVI Inputs already.

    Drop me a note if you want more detailed info on any of the kit we supply.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  8. HappyLad

    HappyLad
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    From what I can find it seems the 7300 has a scaler built in, details I have seen mention Faroudja DCDi processing. So the amp will scale and de-interlace.
    I can't seem to find a price for the 7300 - anyone know how much and is it available in UK?
    Can't see it on the UK Harman website but found some info on the US part of the Harman website:

    http://www.harmankardon.com/product...rCat=REC&sType=S&Prod=AVR 7300&prod_region=US
     
  9. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,234
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    It's not available yet over here but I think it is around $1500 (I have seen it for that) but the rrp is $2100
     
  10. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    The specs are not very clear on this but I can explain you the difference:

    Upconversion means the receiver will just convert an e.g. composite signal to S-Video or YUV (Component) or e.g. S-Video to YUV.
    The quality of an upconverted picture does not improve (as restricted by the source) but it simplifies cabling.

    Upscaling means the receiver can scale the picture to a different resolution, which is useful if the resolution of the source differs from the native resolution of the display.
    However often projectors and plasmas/LCD have such a scaling function already built-in.
     
  11. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    24,426
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The Borders
    Ratings:
    +2,592
    Hello all

    Just for further clarification of the marketing blurb that makes all of this so difficult to follow.

    The Yamaha DSP-Z9 can 'unconvert' Composite and S-Video to YUV 'Component' Video - further it has a Faroudja DCDi Deinterlacer to convert all Interlaced signals to Progressive.

    What it CANT do is SCALE the video signals to exactly match your Display device - unlike a Video Processor such as the Lumagen units already mentioned you cant set the Yamaha to output 1024x768 @60Hz if that happens to be the Native pixel and clock count of your Plasma or Projector.

    The HK AVR7300 looks to be the same - there is mention of scaling in the blurb but not (as far as I can see) in the User manual and worth noting too that DCDi on this model seems to only work for 480i (NTSC) input signals; maybe that will change when a UK unit is launched.

    Having a DCDi processor in your AV Receiver may be a plus for some but not everyone - I had one customer recently who had purchased a Denon DVD player (with DCDi processing), a Yamaha Z9 (with DCDi processing) and a SIM2 Projector (with DCDi processing) - that means he had paid for THREE DCDi deinterlacing chip sets of which TWO were now redundant.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  12. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    Thanks for the clarification, Joe.

    PS: Wasn't there an issue with the Yamaha DSP-Z9 that it can only deinterlace component sources but not upconverted signals? I thought I heard something like that before ...
     
  13. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    24,426
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The Borders
    Ratings:
    +2,592
    Hello Reiner

    Over to any Z9 owners on the AV Forums to answer that one - I've never actually used its Deinterlacing abilities.

    Best regards

    Joe
     

Share This Page

Loading...