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Video upscaling on AVC-A1XV/A11XV

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Endeavour, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. Endeavour

    Endeavour
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    Does anyone know whether these amplifiers are able to upscale analogue inputs and output them at 720p or 1080i through the HDMI/DVI outputs?
     
  2. mickbarlow

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  3. Jase

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    The A11XV will do Analog to HDMI upconversion and the A1XV is supposed to be getting an upgrade to have it as well. :)

    The A1XV has Faroudja Scaling which appears to be missing from the A11XV. Just looking at the manual with regards to the analog to HDMI upconversion. It says "Signals upconverted to HDMI are output to the HDMI monitor with the resolution at which they are input. Please note that resolutions of 1080p are not handled."
     
  4. Endeavour

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    Hmmm, this creates an interesting dilemma. So it looks as if I can get the signal to a display device but the "where best to scale" question is left open. A DVDO and a 3805 will cost less than an A11XV and seems a more flexible, if less neat and muscular option.
     
  5. Jase

    Jase
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    A scaler will be far more flexible as you can create custom resolutions etc. Even the scaling in the A1XV is limited to 480p/576p/720p and 1080i. You'll be missing out on the audio side of things if the Audyssey Room EQ is as good as has been reported though.
     
  6. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
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    I enquired about the upgrade to allow analogue video to be outputted via HDMI by the AVCA1XV, and was told by Denon UK the upgrade will be available next Spring !!
     
  7. Jase

    Jase
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    Any idea if that will mean shipping the unit back or whether it can be flashed with a firmware update by the owner?
     
  8. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
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    Didn't ask them how it would be done.
     
  9. Endeavour

    Endeavour
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    I have been trying to track down a statement somewhere to confirm the A11XV's analogue to HDMI abilities but I haven't found anything. The only thing I have seen is a press release for the 4806 (US version) which talks about upscaling for component out and HDMI/DVI switching but no mention of the two combined. Does anyone have a link to something more specific from Denon themselves?
     
  10. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
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    The user manual states it can be done.
     
  11. Endeavour

    Endeavour
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    Pretty conclusive then :clap: .

    Is that downloadable somewhere Edgeyboy?
     
  12. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
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    I have a link to it somewhere - I'll post it when I get home.
     
  13. Jase

    Jase
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  14. Endeavour

    Endeavour
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    My hope was that I could hook up my analogue and digital devices through the amp. I would then have a HD feed over HDMI which I would then split between a projector and an LCD/Plasma. The extra cost of the A11XV would be offset by not needing a scaler or a new DVD player.

    I have had a read through the manual but I am still a bit confused (not for the first time with a Denon manual). Whilst I can see that it is specifically supporting "transcoding" from analogue sources to either component or HDMI. It's a little more difficult to work out what it is doing on scaling. It looks like it only digitises analogue sources as the original resolution. This means that my current DVD (a 2800) would still only arrive at the projector 576p and PS/2 at 576i.

    Should I be worrying to much about this? Is the scaler in a 7205 projector going to be that much worse than a DVDO?
     
  15. Jase

    Jase
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    It doesn't scale. It will only transcode the signal from analogue to HDMI. So if you input a 576i signal via Component it will be output at 576i via HDMI.

    A standalone scaler is usually better but performance will vary from make to make. The advantage is you can choose lots of different signal and resolution combinations as well as creating custom resolutions. :thumbsup:
     
  16. MPK

    MPK
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    I can imagine that the analog to HDMI converted signal cannot be upscaled as the HDMI connection on the TV/projector will look for an HDCP signal and there won't be one. Therefore, the component to HDMI conversion is pretty pointless as you'll get a much better signal leaving it analog but upscaling it to 720p. But interesting to know that there will be an upgrade for the A1XV. I guess it only makes sense to ship this monster back to Denon once, which should be done when the Dolby Digital Plus upgrade is available, so not before mid next year.
     
  17. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
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    It isn 't pointless to be able to convert.

    I am looking forward to the day when I can switch from SKY to DVD on my amp and the picture will follow without changing inputs on my projector.
     
  18. MPK

    MPK
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    Yes, I agree, that's the only advantage of transcoding the signal. But it's a real shame if you have a built-in scaler but you can't use it. I'd rather have a better picture than one monitor out. Alternatively, you can get an external scaler, but if you have an A1XV or A11XV you wasted quite a bit of money if you're not using the internal scaler.
     
  19. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    MPK - a non HDCP signal from a DVI or HDMI source will work with an HDMI socket.

    I can Input any number of Analogue signals into my various Video Processors and output via DVI to the HDMI Input on our demo Displays and Projectors.

    HDCP is only a factor if its invoked at the source - if an HDMI Input doesn't 'see' an HDCP signal coming at it its quite happy to pass the incoming video signal.

    Edgeboy - its pretty easy to have a Video Switcher and AV Receiver to work in tandem to give you 'seamless' Video and Audio switching; see http://www.zektor.com (just one example).

    I have to say that personally I think AV Receiver's would be better value if they stuck to audio processing and not implementing half cocked Video Processing and DVD Players should be 'transports' or at least offer you the ability to tap into any exotic Video Processing they employ.

    The 'Flagship' Denon kit is a case in point - purchase the DVD player and you have a 'benchmark' Deinterlacer and Noise Reduction system + a 10 bit DVDO scaling engine that cant be accessed by any other component.

    Purchase the AV Amplifier and your purchasing a lesser quality Deinterlacer and lower quality Scaling engine which is not fully user configurable - seems odd when you have all that processing in your DVD player sitting dormant unless your watching a DVD.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  20. MPK

    MPK
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    Joe: Thanks for clearing that up, I always thought HDMI can only accept HDCP signals. I fully agree that it's a real shame to have an average scaler in the amp and the 10 bit top-of-the-range scaler in the DVD player. Would make a lot more sense to have it in the amp for use with all sources, but that would make the amp even more unaffordable...:)
    The question is then why does Denon not allow the transcoding from analog to digital to be upscaled in the A11XV (and with the upgrade of the A1XV) if it's not an HDCP issue?
     
  21. Jase

    Jase
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    The A11XV has no scaling at all. As for whether the analogue to HDMI conversion upgrade on the A1XV will allow additional scaling to be performed, we'll have to wait and see. :)
     
  22. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I'd just like to mention that having all your video signals switched and then output down one cable to your projector is not a good solution for ultimate image quality. The signal levels, brightness, contrast, colour, y;c delay etc are more than likely to be different for your multiple sources. So unless you have a display with multiple easy to recall memories you are going to get one source looking good and the rest not optimised.

    Gordon
     
  23. Joe Fernand

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    Hello all

    I'm sure what Gordon meant to say was that a single cable is not ideal if the box that brings all the sources together doesn't have the power/capability to store per input settings and various 'output' profiles to suit various signals being processed if your Display or Projector similarly cant recognise and 'adjust' to the incoming signals.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS And of course there are 'Black Boxes' that do have the required capabilities :)
     
  24. MPK

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    Gordon & Joe: You're absolutely right. I'm actually quite glad that I have an HDMI connection for DVD and a component for all analog sources. I have quite different settings for each of the inputs and the XDE doesn't have multiple user settings per input. I would find it much more painful to adjust the settings each time I change the source as opposed to simply switch the inputs on the screen. But then I guess some professional screens and projectors have several user settings.
     
  25. Endeavour

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    Having had a couple of media center PC's in my Kids rooms I have been toying with the idea of using a HTPC as my primary source. The only "legacy" box I would need to plug in that is not covered by the HTPC's functionality would be my trusty PS/2. Would I be able to scale the PS/2 through a X800XL VIVO graphics card (or something like the Immersive cards) and display it out through DVI? Would the quality compare with a standalone scaler?
     
  26. MPK

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    Hmm...I'm not sure how you could feed a PS2 signal into the HTPC and then scale it to a level that compares with a standalone scaler. Maybe with a Sweetspot Video Capture card through its component inputs you might get a good enough picture quality.
     
  27. Endeavour

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    Had a look at the Sweetspot. Looks like a Sweetspot/Dscaler combo potentially has the capability. It then becomes a question of MCE compatibility and control. Also whether dscaler gives a processor load which would interfere with other tasks like recording from Freeview.
     
  28. Edgeyboy

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    Joe:

    Could you explain how you would integrate the type of video switcher you mention with the audio being carried by iLink as I have in my system?
     
  29. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Edgeyboy

    The Zektor switcher's (I'm assuming you mean those units) have 5 x RCA Passive sockets per Input (you can use them for YUV, RGBHV or YUV+Stereo audio) 1 x SPDIF Socket Per Input and 1 x Toslink Optical Socket per Input.

    If you only require the Zektor to switch multiple Video signals then wire your Audio sources Direct to your AV Receiver and the Video Sources to the Zektor.

    Now the Neat bit - the Zektor can 'Learn' the IR Codes your AV Receiver handset puts out when you select a new source.

    With the Video Output of the Zektor connected to your Display (HDS4) or Display + Projector (HDS4.2) you simply select a new Source to Listen to on your AV Receivers remote and the Zektor will switch in Tandem with the Audio source.

    It takes two minutes to set up the Zektor and once its installed you'll forget its in your system.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  30. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
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    That's really clever Joe. How much are these units ?
     

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