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Video ' up-conversion' ???

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by sidicks, Apr 19, 2004.

  1. sidicks

    sidicks
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    Can someone give me an idiots guide to what this actually means, and the benefits I'll actually see ?

    I'm going to be purchasing a new a/v receiver, and have been looking at the Pioneer Ax-5i (circa £1,000) and Ax-10i (circa £2,000) as well as the Yamaha DSP-Z9 (circa £3,000).

    I'm told that the Ax-10i has significant advantages over the Ax-5i in terms of video up conversion, and similarly the Yamaha is much better than the AX-10i in this regard.

    For the record, I'll be plugging DVD player, S-VHS video, PS-2, Sky+ into it.

    Cheers

    Sidicks
     
  2. jhjerpe

    jhjerpe
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    On the Z9 you can take any video input such as s-video and output it as component. This means you can run all your video sources through the amp and use one connection to your display.

    e.g. My setup takes:

    DVD Recorder S-Video
    SKY S-video
    VCR Composite
    DVD Component

    And outputs it all via the Z9 to my Plasma via it's component input. This makes the system very easy to use, as all the audio is also routed via the amp.

    Many AV-Amps do this, but the Z9 goes once set further in that it can also apply video processing to the signal to clean it up and increase it's resolution (scaling).

    IMO the Z9 does a good job at video up conversion and the basic video enhancements (noise reduction etc) but doesn't really cut it as a scaler (increased resolution).
     
  3. sidicks

    sidicks
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    I have some good quality component leads that I currently use to connect my DVD player to my Plamsa TV, so this facility would suit me.

    Does the AX-10i not do this ?

    Sidicks
     
  4. PC Nut

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  5. jhjerpe

    jhjerpe
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    In answer to the above thread the Video bandwidth of the Z9 is 100Mhz. I've never noticed any difference with the Z9 in going directly from the DVD player to the Plasma versus routing the signal through the amp.

    Based on the kit that you have for the ultimate picture quality I would use:

    PS2 connected via Component to the Amp.
    http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?ca...96&PHPSESSID=f8859c7b20a5859a2d3a8916e5084cfe

    SKY Connected using an RGB to Component Converter
    http://www.js-technology.com/rgb-yuv/index.htm

    The DVD player using a good quality Component lead

    VCR using S-video assuming it has the connection or using the composite connector and using the amp the up convert the image.

    That leaves you with one good quality lead from the amp to the Plasma. You could use s-video from the SKY box but I’ve generally had better results using a RGB to Component converter.
     
  6. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    The AX10 will convert most video formats to component. It will not scale, de-interlace or time base correct the signal; the Yammy is unique in this respect. Bear in mind that it isn't really video upconversion, since the basic quality of the signal is unchanged. It's more acurately, video transcoding. It's just a convenience feature, not an enhancement.
     
  7. sidicks

    sidicks
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    Thanks for your reply.

    I've also got a Panasonic TH42PW5 Plasma which the amp/receiver will be connected to plus I'm considering some KEF speakers (Q7 AV range), so your input is particularly relevant and much appreciated. I'll probably stick with my current DVD player for the time being, but the Pioneer would be my upgrade choice.

    Presumably you are happy with the AX-10i, or if you were spending the same amount of money again, would you go for something different ?

    Cheers

    Sidicks
     
  8. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    sidicks

    It gets confusing doesn't it!!! especially when AV Receiver manufacturers start cramming video deinterlacing into there specifications.

    I had one customer a couple of weeks back who had purchased a new DVD player, AV Receiver and Projector and all THREE had on-board Faroudja DCDi deinterlacing - I suppose he was well covered in case one of the DCDi processors ever broke down :)

    As others have said video 'up-conversion' or transcoding is really a convenience feature that will for some destroy video images and for others have no detrimental effect on the video quality of the converted signals (and even if it is slightly detrimental its not an issue as the sources they have that are S-Video or Composite are secondary sources that don't get used too often).

    Personally I'd be comparing 1k, 2k, 3k and 4k AV Receivers/Amplifioers with my eyes closed - if you prefer the sound of one over the other fair enough but I wouldn't necessarily choose one over the other based on its video 'up conversion' or Deinterlacing capabilities (I'd also be seriously considering spending £4k on a two chassis Processor/Power amp combo rather than an Integrated chassis - makes more sense in the long run if you ever want to upgrade).

    I'd also question any dealer who's trying to 'up sell' you from a VSX-AX5i to a VSA-AX10i on the merits of video 'up conversion' - they don't understand the products.

    If you want to optimise your video signals to your Display, Projector or both I'd suggest you set aside some of your budget for a stand alone Video Processor that offers Deinterlacing and Scaling (and preferably one that's HD ready) - your looking at around £1 to 1.5K for a very high quality unit from DVDO or Lumagen; though you can spend more.

    Once you add in a video processor its more important to ensure your AV Receiver/Amplifier or AV Processor has the ability to add Digital Audio delay to your audio inputs as your going to introduce video processing time to your video signal.

    The video processor will simplify the final cabling to your PW5 and better to hook as many of your sources direct to the processor as you can - the latest video processors from DVDO and Lumagen accept direct connection of RGB sources such as SKY and Freeview.

    One option you may want to consider with a Video processor is to move to an all Digital connection to the Plasma using Progressive video over DVI - you'll need to add the TY-42TM4DB DVI card to your display.

    You may also want to consider the merits of SDI Digital Video over HDMI or DVI; you can have certain DVD players and some Digibox units modified (£350 per box) to output SDI and the Lumagen scalers can be specified with SDI inputs. This gives you an all Digital video path that's not encumbered with HDCP Copy Protection as used on HDMI.

    Pioneer are just about to release the new VSA-AX10Ai AV Amplifier so keep an eye out for that one and I'd not jump straight into the Pioneer DV-868AVi without considering the latest offering from Arcam - again keep in mind with the DV-868AVi your potentially buying some technology (the inbuilt scaler) that you wont require; though I have to admit its nigh on impossible these days to not end up with some duplication somewhere in a multi component system.

    The KEF Q7 AV Series are a good looking and sounding range and as long as they work in your room you wont go far wrong with them.

    Trust this helps.

    Joe

    PS jhjerpe - I'm pretty sure your Yamaha AV Receiver 'only' has a DCDi deinterlacer; I don't see a scaler in the spec sheet; PS where do you put the tea and coffee!!!
     
  9. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    Well my Pioneer is actually the AX10 which I've just upgraded to iLink status via Pioneer's retrofit program. Yes I am very happy with it, but don't use the video conversion feature. My main buying decision was based on the MCACC feature, in my system it makes a fantastic difference, I only wish it equalized the bass region. The audio delay feature on the upgrade is one of my reasons for updating. As Joe says Pioneer are about to release the new version, so check that out if you have the patience to wait. If I were buing now, i be auditioning the new Pioneer versus the Yammy.

    Joe I returned your kind email about this, but as I'm sure you're very busy I haven't had a reply. I am very interested in taking this route, but am unsure if it will work with the PW5/Pioneer 868 combo. What about HDCP and PAL/NTSC scan rates?
     

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