VIDEO: RED Epic and REDRAY Player providing the content for 4K Ultra HD

Discussion in 'CES Consumer Electronics Show 2013' started by hodg100, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. Nevaborn

    Nevaborn
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    Never said Sky wouldn't do 4k and it will put prices up. Should I be happy ?

    You really over simplify what it will take to get 4K. But like you say we will just disagree and we will leave it. You've made your mind up that your fine and thats what matters so nothing else to say.
     
  2. Kalos Geros

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    Well, the 4K .RED bitrate is known - it' 20 mbps, so it is in no way huge...the only thing that is unknown is actual colorspace and bit-depth, but extrapolating from the scarce info, it is at least 12-bit 4:2:2 and 8-bit 4:4:4, restricted to Rec.709 at playback, but actual codec colorspace may be wider, probably XYZ DCI...

    However they managed to come up with such a low bitrate 4K codec with no artifacts is a mystery to me...it is probably a version of Redcode they tweaked from the original 28mbps to 20 mbps...
     
  3. Scooby2000

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    I get what the guys saying but IMO its not as simple as get with the times when it comes to the frame rate. I simply don't want an epic movie to look like a play, its as simple as that. It they want things to look more real then makeup and SFX people need to step up as its one of the things showing how fake content often is in movies.

    Not against 48p but don't think saying get with the times is helpful, as for games players, well I am one and sure with CGI it may be cool, but live action Im not so sure, Steve's point still stands for me.
     
  4. vaktmestern

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    Just hope red ray gets sum hollywood suport .. if not its just going to turn into a entusiast product
     
  5. zAndy1

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    If the codec red are using is as good as they say it is there's no reason a 4k movie shouldn't take up less space than a bluray I.e. say 25GB, that's literally hours to download with a half decent connection, I dont have fibre but get 13Mbps , overnight download easy
     
  6. Kalos Geros

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    Maybe you don't want it, but it's not your film :D

    Action movies, animation etc.- 48 fps may be well-suited for these...director and studio have the say, it's their handiwork...if we don't like 48 fps, we don't go see it, and maybe they get the message and it goes away eventually...
     
  7. vism

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    Gotta say, I'm in the other camp on this. Here's something I posted on the HFR thread that sums up my views.

    So, I went to see the Hobbit and here's what I found.

    I have no doubt that I have seen the future, it's not perfect but I found the HFR to be an improvement over 24 fps. It does look like TV sometimes and I'm more convinced than ever that the problem will not disappear until we have doubled the framerate again. Avatar 2 in 60 fps will be very interesting, it should show a further improvement but based on the motion blur I was seeing on The Hobbit, it won't be enough.
    I found that the live scenes, though not perfect, were better than ones with digital effects in them. For example, there was a scene where the camera panned and turned as it passed a human character (an elf I think) who must have been tweaked digitally. It looked very fake and had a plastic look to it, likewise, a lot of the effects looked like the ones in the Spiderman films (kinda bendy and plasticine), fire also looked very fake.
    From that, I conclude that the effects need to be uprated for HFR (assuming they look better at 24fps of course) and it may not be the HFR that is causing all of the problems.

    I have to say, the HFR really comes into it's own for action sequences, the scenes in the Goblin's cave were mindblowing, the 3D working with the HFR to give incredible detail, I smiled all the way through that sequence.

    Some non HFR things too.

    1) For large screens like the isense one I saw, 8k is a requirement, 4k just doesn't give enough detail
    2) I came away with a more positive view of 3D, it certainly works better with bigger screens. It really needs to cover your entire field of view to work properly though...bring on omnimax.
    3) I love the lack of film grain but I do feel that either the cameras or the projectors need improvements as the wasn't too much detail in dark areas. This tends to make things look a little flat, some of the clothing looked just black rather than having subtle highlights.

    A final thought. There were subtle colour filters used throughout the film to make it feel like a different World and they really worked. It occurred to me that that is the true art of the film maker, to transport us to a different reality and people going on about low framerate and film grain are missing the point. Technical restrictions do not make great cinema, directors, actors and the entire production team do.

    Addendum - I've found out since that the 3D HFR version is 2k not 4k so point 1 may not be valid.
     
  8. Scooby2000

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    Personally and more and more people I know don't intend to have Sky or will be/ are dropping it.

    Sure broadband is getting fast but its still very closearea dependent and capped.
    Sure if it can be compressed significantly its viable now and Im sure in a few year the infrastructure will likely be there, if we ever get out if recession.
    Im quite lucky that I can download a game of just over a gig in a night, not so long agoit would have taken a week and that's if the connection didn't cut out. Many surrounding areas to me are still on very slow connections.

    As I say in the future it my not be a problem if the will is there to connect everyone properly and caps could be lifted. As its going to be a good 5 years for 4k to be anything like mainstream there's certainly plenty of time I guess.
    Personally Id be happy if content was mainly 1080p which it still isn't. I think 1080p and 3D have a few years to become established, its more likely going to be ten years for 4k to be in UK homes in any number, most people don't buy a set every other year and there's still a significant number buying their first 1080p set.

    I think 4k is going to be very enthusiast based for at least 5 years in the UK, spreading more widely in the following 5 years.

    I personally hope to be buying OLED in about 5-6 years, if they drop enough in price for 4k OLED to be affordable to me I'll be very happy, I'll still be happy though if just 1080p OLED is affordable.

    It is quite impressive how tech can reduce in price these days, I remember paying 550 for a DVD player when they came out, a few years later the PS3 came out and I ended up with not only a bluray player but console too, all for 350, bargain!. Here's hoping this happens again.:)
     
  9. vaktmestern

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    This is a lill silly 2k vs 4k comp but it gets the point out.. 2 the dis belivers :lesson:

    4K vs 2K (Full HD) resolution comparison side...
     
  10. Kalos Geros

    Kalos Geros
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    @vism: "fake" CGI look is obvious @24fps as well (at least to me ;))...I sincerely doubt it has much to do with 48 fps...they probably usually don't take much care in detailing the CGI elements that pass fast by the camera since it's usually rather blurred, but with 48 fps, they need to make it less blurred to match the rest of the picture and the non-existent motion blur doesn't conceal the sloppy work any more...

    crushed blacks are an old problem with 3D, silver screens do help, but light that reaches the glasses is still insufficient...also the 2.6 gamma standard of digital cinema, meant to give more contrast and "pop" in the darkness of the cinema aids to the crush...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  11. stucarblne

    stucarblne
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    Don't think anyone is not believing as such.

    Just that 'realistically' it (is) going to be a good while before it becomes (truly mainstream.)

    I know the video wasn't top quality but you could see the difference - it was obvious to anyone with decent eyesight.

    But i have seen poor quality video before - with a display showing a much much stronger image than that 'effort' on the right. Me thinks someone "forgot" to set that one up for optimal performance. For maximum effect for the 4K display on the left. Which more than likley was set up at least for 95% optimal performance regardless of resolution.

    But i would expect a 4K OLED to look even more crisp than the LCD equivalent like we watched.

    Fact of strongest available black level/ANSI contrast.
     
  12. Kalos Geros

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    I automatically dismiss any "statements" that claim that one TV has better colors than the other without any knowledge about whether they were calibrated and adjusted to the standard...any derivative conclusions about 4K TVs, of course, are exponentially progressing in falseness...

    in this case, of course, 4K has nothing to do with "better" colors....
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  13. vaktmestern

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    Im exspecting even more 4k tvs n content as next year.. the next tv gen is comming
     

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