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VIDEO: RED Epic and REDRAY Player providing the content for 4K Ultra HD

hodg100

Distinguished Member
Stand and deliver

The Pioneers of 4K Digital cinema, Red Digital Cinema, claim that 4K content delivery is coming quicker than most imagine. Ted Schilowitz explains how the RED Epic cinema camera is leading the way for 4K capture and how the REDRAY 4K player can deliver that content today.

 

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Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
Awesome video and exciting stuff. Presumably movies will be available to buy on 2TB hard drives which you connect via the USB connector?
Just guessing. Because there is no way UK internet will be fast enough to download them, and there isn't a disk technology available.
 

golden phoenix

Distinguished Member
very interesting, watching the avforum videos and getting all this information, i have genuinely felt, we are starting to see the next big leap in home cinema tech for the home. glad Steve stuck to his guns with good old fashioned 24 fps. the jury is still out for me until i see 48 fps..maybe on a second viewing of the hobbit.

keep up the good work my beloved avforums.

only downside is, upgrading again..the av geeks penance to access all this ultra HD goodness.
 
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vaktmestern

Banned
Just wondering if this really is a true 4k system as the movies seems compressed? even think i read they will ship on usb sticks on red ray site a while back.. :lesson:
 
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Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
Just wondering if this really is a true 4k system as the movies seems compressed? even think i read they will ship on usb sticks on red ray site a while back.. :lesson:
Can you get 2TB USB sticks? I'm not aware that you can, hence my HDD comment.
 

witchdrash

Active Member
There's an esata port on the back, as well as 2 network ports, I'm pretty sure you could stream from a NAS, or just plug a hard drive straight in.

Out of curiosity Vakt, what is your obsession with the :lesson: emoticon?
 

vaktmestern

Banned
There's an esata port on the back, as well as 2 network ports, I'm pretty sure you could stream from a NAS, or just plug a hard drive straight in.

Out of curiosity Vakt, what is your obsession with the :lesson: emoticon?
:lesson: Havent notice it myself
 

AdrianMills

Well-known Member
Awesome video and exciting stuff. Presumably movies will be available to buy on 2TB hard drives which you connect via the USB connector?
Just guessing. Because there is no way UK internet will be fast enough to download them, and there isn't a disk technology available.
He was talking of the Redplayer streaming to the TV at 2.4MBps - a 25Mb dedicated broadband connection could handle that with a bit of buffering as long as it could manage to sustain 25Mb.
 
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witchdrash

Active Member
Just a quote from red rays site..

Advanced RED codec technology generates feature length 4K files small enough to fit on a USB flash drive.

Not shure how large the usb sticks are.
Unreleased 2tb ones probably
 

vaktmestern

Banned
Is hollywood suporting this or is it a indy platform?
 

Workflow Wizard

Standard Member
Just a quote from red rays site..

Advanced RED codec technology generates feature length 4K files small enough to fit on a USB flash drive.

Not shure how large the usb sticks are.
At that data rate that's 9GB/hour so a 16GB USB flash drive or SD Card would be fine for most movies, a 32GB capacity USB flash drive or SD Card would pretty much cover any run time you might imagine.

The player also supports non-real time network download, then play operation.
 

zAndy1

Distinguished Member
Gotta love the blurry as hell 1080p picture next to the 4K one on the redray overview page, don't know how they get away with stuff like that I mean it looks worse than DVD when in reality 1080p is a damn sight better than that image makes out..
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
Shame it's only Rec.709...probably constrained by the fact that 4K displays in this initial stage operate in rec.709 universe, regardless of their native gamut...

good news is RED are talking to DCI guys...
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
Great video. Perhaps if this takes off, it might hasten the appearance of some sort of 4k Blu Ray.
 

vism

Well-known Member
I'm really not sure why everyone is talking hard disks and slow internet.

2/3 of the UK will have fibre by spring 2014. mine runs at 21-32Mb/s, easily enough for a 4k p60 stream using HEVC at 11Mb/s.
At that compression rate, a movie will fit on an existing 1 or 2 layer Blu-ray (if they introduced an upgraded standard to add HEVC). New players required obviously(but not new types of disk).
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
Can't find what compression format they're using? Propritary or it is undercover HEVC? Anyone?

P.S. think I found it, it may be a variant of REDCODE, what RED cameras record...

another P.S...it seems it's not quite...it's something undocumented, but could still be .R3D at lower bitrate...one can convert .R3D RED camera files to .RED using REDCINE...so it is proprietary after all...
 
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Nevaborn

Well-known Member
Stuart Wright said:
Awesome video and exciting stuff. Presumably movies will be available to buy on 2TB hard drives which you connect via the USB connector?
Just guessing. Because there is no way UK internet will be fast enough to download them, and there isn't a disk technology available.
The Kingston DT HyperX Predator 1TB usb stick was unveiled at CES. Its chunky but were getting there.


vaktmestern said:
Just wondering if this really is a true 4k system as the movies seems compressed? even think i read they will ship on usb sticks on red ray site a while back.. :lesson:
Seeing the numbers of uncompressed 4k and 8k data this will be quite compressed. But guess its how far can you go before visibly effecting the image.






AdrianMills said:
He was talking of the Redplayer streaming to the TV at 2.4MBps - a 25Mb dedicated broadband connection could handle that with a bit of buffering as long as it could manage to sustain 25Mb.
Thats a lot for many and sustaining it probably the the harder part, with traffic, peak hours throttling and usage limits

vaktmestern said:
Just a quote from red rays site..

Advanced RED codec technology generates feature length 4K files small enough to fit on a USB flash drive.

Not shure how large the usb sticks are.

http://www.red.com/products/redray
Will be interesting to see that.

vism said:
I'm really not sure why everyone is talking hard disks and slow internet.

2/3 of the UK will have fibre by spring 2014. mine runs at 21-32Mb/s, easily enough for a 4k p60 stream using HEVC at 11Mb/s.
At that compression rate, a movie will fit on an existing 1 or 2 layer Blu-ray (if they introduced an upgraded standard to add HEVC). New players required obviously(but not new types of disk).
2/3 may have access but nowhere near will have fibre optic or the speeds they should. Fibre is expensive to many, data limits, throttling and fair usage limits will all limit people.
 

Workflow Wizard

Standard Member
2/3 may have access but nowhere near will have fibre optic or the speeds they should. Fibre is expensive to many, data limits, throttling and fair usage limits will all limit people.
It doesn't need to stream video for operation, so network speed is not relevent to getting the 4K content, the RED data files can be downloaded in non-real time and cached the internal HDD prior to playback.
 
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Nevaborn

Well-known Member
Workflow Wizard said:
It doesn't need to stream video for operation, so network speed is not relevent to getting the 4K content, the RED data files can be downloaded in non-real time and cached the internal HDD prior to playback.
Hows speed not involved if your downloading it to a HDD ? And what the jellybean is non-real time ?

That just means its going to tale ages to download so go to work or the pub or on holiday and when you get home it might be ready.

Unless your isp has throttled your connection for excessive load or even worse terminated your service for continued breach of fair usage policy.

Also if you have data caps like many still do some like 10-40gb you go over that and you pay big. With 4k your going so far beyond that.
 
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vism

Well-known Member
Nev, you really seem to be in a different World to me. I simply do not agree with anything you are saying regards internet speeds, fibre, costs, fair usage and caps.

I have everything I need (right now) to watch 4k through the internet.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
I don't see this as VOD but rather as keepers, I see it aimed more at film enthusiasts who want to have their favs in 4K to enjoy again and again, ...so, it does require some waiting, but you also wait for blu-rays to ship from Amazon, no? You start the download before going to bed, and it's on the Redray the next morning...:) faster than any courier IMHO
 

Nevaborn

Well-known Member
vism said:
Nev, you really seem to be in a different World to me. I simply do not agree with anything you are saying regards internet speeds, fibre, costs, fair usage and caps.

I have everything I need (right now) to watch 4k through the internet.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
The country goes beyond you though. But if your sorted then enjoy.


Kalos Geros said:
I don't see this as VOD but rather as keepers, I see it aimed more at film enthusiasts who want to have their favs in 4K to enjoy again and again, ...so, it does require some waiting, but you also wait for blu-rays to ship from Amazon, no? You start the download before going to bed, and it's on the Redray the next morning...:) faster than any courier IMHO
They cant aim just at enthusiasts then to only have a few fav films. Thats got to be a failing business strategy. Also the size of these files is massive, will take longer than overnight in all possibility to download.

The argument is a bit off about Amazon for example. If pre-ordered like many titles arrive on release or will soon or after. If red ray is designed for few films only then buying from say Amazon you can have a higher number of films at the ready. Also Redray you can download 1 film buying Physically you can have many movies at once.

Also just go to the super market or store if you want it on release and speed is an issue.

Its like the Sony rep said in the video about their delivery service the stream/download side is aimed at the US market as large proportions of it uses Fibre.

We will see later in the year but there are certainly limitations currently.
 

vism

Well-known Member
The country goes beyond you though. But if your sorted then enjoy.
And 10 million other households who have access to it.
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
T
...Also the size of these files is massive, will take longer than overnight in all possibility to download.
Errr...how did you add that up?

if it were VOD it would require, say, 25 mbps broadband (overhead included) for real-time, and a movie needs to "download" in say 2hrs to be real-time...if connection were much less than 25 mbps, it would still download within 12 hours time.frame, but most likely 8 hours would be an average for most...
 

vism

Well-known Member
Nev has decided that 4k is not going to happen and keeps coming with bizarre reasons to justify his position.
 

Nevaborn

Well-known Member
Kalos Geros said:
Errr...how did you add that up?

if it were VOD it would require, say, 25 mbps broadband (overhead included) for real-time, and a movie needs to "download" in say 2hrs to be real-time...if connection were much less than 25 mbps, it would still download within 12 hours time.frame, but most likely 8 hours would be an average for most...
4k files are huge if you keep a 25mbps connection if my calculation is right you'll get 2.9TB

All depends on the compression but thats about half the size of raw 4k file I believe.
 

Nevaborn

Well-known Member
vism said:
Nev has decided that 4k is not going to happen and keeps coming with bizarre reasons to justify his position.
How is what i say bizarre ?
 

vism

Well-known Member
You don't seem to get that the HEVC codec will do 4k in 11-15mb/s (less if you're working at p24)

You don't seem to get that internet speeds are already fast enough to handle 4k, fibre is around £10 extra per Month and is available to 10 million homes).

You don't accept that Sky will be going a 4k channel in 2014 (and you just complain about the price if they do).

You should read this, particularly the bit at the top detailing exactly how good the codec is.
For example, a 25-50% bitrate reduction on existing HD with no extra performance requirement.
 

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