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Very confused

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by themmings, Nov 21, 2002.

  1. themmings

    themmings
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    OK folks, after prowling the board I'm even more confused....

    I'm upgrading my current kit: Panny TX36PF10, Pioneer 636 DVD , Yammy DSPA5 amp, Quadral 1240 Sub/Sat Spkr package.

    I've £4.5 k to spend on a plasma; I had my mind set on the Pioneer PDP-433HDE, yet I can't see anyone mentioning the HDE model - only the MXE model....why is this?

    Secondly, throwing another plasma into my shortlist - same sort of price bracket - what are acknowledged as the best on todays market? Max size 42/43"

    Thanks. A confused consumer not looking to make the wrong descision :confused:

    Tim
     
  2. ferdyg

    ferdyg
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    Without a doubt the Panny...

    spent the last 3 months looking...

    now have the Panny, simply fantastic quality
     
  3. themmings

    themmings
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    Thanks for your response.

    Which Panny model do you recommend I look at?

    Thanks,

    Tim
     
  4. d_devani

    d_devani
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    PANASONIC - TH42PW5B - £3300, though i here there is a higher resolution or HD (high definition one on its way, this would fall under your £4500 bracket):)
     
  5. PVR

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    I can feel another PANASONIC <-> PIONEER war brewing again ...:devil:

    PVR
     
  6. PVR

    PVR
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    I have been looking at both units for the last two months now, and swung between the two forward / backward, but have now finally settled on the Pioneer.

    Reason? Upgradebility! The Panny also had a reported compatibility problem with the ISCAN unit (see Uncle Eric's thread) which convinced me NOT to get the Panasonic.

    ;)

    The choices are difficult. The reason I only consider MXE and not HDE is that I do not need the TV tuner with a SKY box available which does all of it anyway. Also a lot cheaper.

    PVR
     
  7. themmings

    themmings
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    Just looking through these threads on this forum in more detail - and I kinda feel a bit nervous about it....

    Screen burn, dead pixels, limited shelf life, buzzing noises - I had that issue with my TX36PF10 CRT set!!

    Is it fare to say that this technology is still very new, and that these are all symptons that us early adopters will have to put up with?

    £4.5k (to me) is a lot of money - I'll be very annoyed if I had any of the above issues.....

    Perhaps I should wait for the technology to mature a little??
     
  8. PVR

    PVR
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    Sorry, can't agree. You can wait forever then.

    The same applies to cars, but you still buy them ...:p

    PVR
     
  9. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    themmings

    As you say much to confuse you - but its not too difficult to narrow down your choice of 'screens' to shortlist the main contenders for your cash.

    Your first choice to make is between the PlasmaTV models, such as the Pioneer PDP-433HDE you mentioned, and the Plasma Display models.

    The PlasmaTV models have more user features and normally an external tuner/media box where all of your kit plugs into along with a terrestrial TV aerial.

    Unfortunately the tuner/media box switch centres generally let the side down on video quality and for those looking to get the absolute best picture quality on a plasma screen these systems run second best to the Plasma Display models.

    Plasma Display model are no frills affairs with fairly alien looking video input connections and strange wording in the brochures and instructions manuals (YPbPr, Gamma Correction, Black Level Adjust etc) and the main user 'features' on the display are intended to allow you to adjust the picture parameters of the display to best suit your source equipment and room lighting.

    In the PlasmaTV market the Pioneer HDE models are the ones to beat and so far I've not seen anything to better them - and an awful lot of models based on outdated 2nd or 3rd generation plasma technology that look pretty poor. If the features on the HDE and the picture quality match up to your expectations then go get one.

    In the Plasma Display market the favoured display for the Home Cinema market has been the Panasonic 4 Series for the last twelve months and the new 5 Series carries on pretty much where the 4 Series left of.

    New to the 42/43" Display market is the Pioneer PDP-433MXE and these have convinced quiet a few potential Panasonic owners to switch allegiance due to a higher resolution screen and better connectivity - as you will see on the forums there is much to be said for both the Pioneer and the Panasonic Displays and both are very good; its a matter of looking at which one best suits your requirements and your eyes.

    To muddy the waters a little the Panasonic display is available with an external tuner/media box (PT-TU600B) - and initial reports of this combination is that it is better than the old tuner box. BUT and its a big BUT the use of the Panasonic tuner precludes the use of a PC with the Display (bit of a technical c**k-up I feel) which rather limits this combinations appeal to many potential owners.

    The issue's you mentioned are all very real:
    Screen burn - the Display models have far better systems for minimising the risks than the TV models.

    Dead or Stuck pixels - no manufacturer guarantees a 100% defect free panel; though in practice we dont get too many issue these days.

    Limited Shelf Life - how long are you planning on keeping it? you'll want something new long before it wears out.

    Buzzing noises - Panasonic do seem to have resolved this issue with the 5 Series displays.

    Trust this helps.

    Joe
     
  10. lumpsucker

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    Joe's comments.....

    "To muddy the waters a little the Panasonic display is available with an external tuner/media box (PT-TU600B) - and initial reports of this combination is that it is better than the old tuner box. BUT and its a big BUT the use of the Panasonic tuner precludes the use of a PC with the Display (bit of a technical c**k-up I feel) which rather limits this combinations appeal to many potential owners. "..............

    ..........Is about the only thing stopping me going for the Panny 50. If anyone gets any news on Panny fixing this problem (which they surely will) then please, please let me know. Also whether the new tuner has Picture-in-Picture facility.

    I have seen a demo of the Pioneer PDP-503HDE but only on DVD. I am arranging for a demo of it with a digital sattellite source (my panel will get a lot of this type of input !).

    My worry about the Pioneer is that the dealer keeps telling me that it only outputs video in a 'progressive' format if it is recieved via the input 3 component ports. My instinct tells me they are confusing progressive scan output from a DVD fed in through component as opposed to the inbuilt capabilities of the Plasma panel to reproduce all input sources in a progressive format. But they are supposed to be the experts so my money is still in my pocket.

    Comments welcomed.

    Regards

    Simon
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Simon,

    Your dealer is VERY confused. The Pioneer works in a progressive mode with signals on any input. Of course, how good it's de-interlacing has to be seen. An external de-interlacing or scaler usually gives a better image quality than those inside the plasma itself.

    Gordon
     
  12. installer09

    installer09
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    The pioneer mxe wins hands down over the Panasonic imo, higher resoulution , an inch bigger , better conectivity and future upgrades , no buzzing , and the most impoortant a better picture.
     
  13. themmings

    themmings
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    Joe, your response is very much appreciated ;-)

    Things are starting to get a little clearer now - and the good news is that I'm still gagging for one :), and the even better news is that the wife is cool with it too (as it means freeing up space in the living room where that huge Panny TX36PF10 sits).

    I have a couple of questions though:

    I'm not so fussed about the HDE model as I have sky via my pace digibox. But whats all this about progressive scan?? And what cables do I need and how will the configuration work.

    I'm looking to run sky box, DVD and PS2 to the display.

    Chances are I'll be sticking with my Pioneer 636DVD player for a little longer yet and I don't think this has progressive scan - if not will this give me a below par image as I've read on other posts on this board.

    Subject to viewing I have to say - I'm hedging towards the Pioneer.. an extra inch is an extra inch. Plus it seems to be cheaper than the Panny; this mean I can save my extra pennys for the DVD/Speaker/Amp upgrade :)

    Responses appreciated.

    Tim :D
     
  14. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Lumpsucker

    Gordon beat me to it - you do indeed have a confused dealer; maybe point them at the 'Progressive Scan' forum for a bit of homework :)

    One important point to note on the HDE models is that they do NOT work with PAL progressive signals - they do work with NTSC progressive scan signals.

    I wonder if you should not be looking at a Pioneer MXE Display as an option to the Panasonic Display.

    There are only two work around to the PC input issue when using the Panasonic Display with its 'matching' tuner:
    01. Break into the umbilical cable and fit a switch on one of the lines; bit of a hassle and pretty ugly.

    02. AND WE DONT RECOMMEND THIS ONE.
    Get inside the tuner box and fit a VGA connector to the appropriate holes in the PCB and punch a hole in the front panel behind the drop down flap - rather drastic and not for the non technical amongst us (me included).

    themmings

    Plenty of options to connect up your kit to an MXE (or Panasonic for that matter) - maybe a bit of discussion on how an AV amp may eventually work within your system and if you want to have a PC connected is appropriate before you settle on the best configuration at this stage.

    Your DVD player will work fine with an MXE display - dont worry about it not being a Progressive scan model; you can always add one of those in at a later date given a bit more cash; as Gordon points out what you are trying to achieve with a progressive scan DVD player is that it has a significantly better deinterlacer than the one on-board the display so you have to look to spend a fair few quid (£600+) to see a significant step-up in picture quality.

    The extra inch on the Pioneer display does make quite a difference - though it also makes the unit that big bigger in your room!

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  15. themmings

    themmings
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    Thanks all, the fog is clearing.... and my decision is being narrowed.

    Although as you can see from my other post - the screen burn issue concerns me. Just how bad is it?
     
  16. danny-p

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    Themmings, ive had the panasonic-th42pw4b for over a year now and have my ps2 connected (s-video) prog dvd player (component imp) and sky+(s-video) and had no problems such as screen burn, screen buzzing?? etc.
    All you need to do is avoid having the plasma's screen being on pause ( via dvd, console etc) for a long period of time or watching sky in 4:3 mode/with big borders etc.
    As nearly every dvd/ broadcast is in 16:9 format there is no worry at all and dont forget if you were to put on a dvd and the screen was a different format of widescreen you just go to "zoom" or "manually" adjust the screen to fill the whole screen.
    As long as you abide by the above then theres nothing to worry about.
    Id go for the panasonic as you pick up any home cinema mag and they all give it full marks and state its the one to beat and at a low price.
    3000:1 contrast, real blacks (quite alot of plasmas shades of black are more like a dark shade of grey)
    hope this helps.........................
    Danny-p
     
  17. The Huss

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    themmings

    Can only speak for my Pioneer and the HDE version at that.

    I have a PC connected to my screen and will surf and work, document writing, presentation etc. for many hours at a time when working from home - up to 8 hours often (honest boss).

    As you know most PC applications come with fixed frames of one description or another and so this was an initial worry of mine.

    The Pioneer manual advises ways in which to avoid burn e.g playing a moving image TV / DVD for a period of time following static images and I try to follow their advise most of the time.

    Having clocked up many many hours working in this way in my 6 month's of ownership I have yet to experience any issues at all, and believe me I do look.:eek:

    There is sometimes an imprint of the screen left on white backgrounds but this quickly disappears once moving images are applied.

    I scan these threads regularly looking for 'real' instances of screen burn and rarely come across many apart from those reported by the few 'lads' in the trade.

    No offense 'lads';)


    regards

    huss
     
  18. themmings

    themmings
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    Excellent - thanks for your responses..

    I wonder if I could get my company to pay for it for when I'm working from home:D :D
     

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