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Valve index VR headset

aoaaron

Well-known Member
Just been trying Revive for the first time with my Index and it all seems to be working very well. The Knuckles joystick and buttons are pretty close to how the Touch controllers look and you really don't need any thought translating the button prompts from the Touch to the Index. Even the TurnSignal works.

Unfortunately Lucky's Tale has disappeared from my Oculus library. I'd had it free from before so I wasn't too upset about spending a tenner on it, its wonderful. Fully playable with the Knuckles and looks beautiful at Index resolution. Not sure whether I was getting the best of the Index's fps or not though.

Gave Vader Immortal a very quick try and it appears to be working fine. Even the limited finger tracking of the Touch is emulated by the Knuckles, so I could extend my index finger to point and open and close my hand without using buttons. Looking forward to giving this some more time soon.

How is the index with games like defector? Is there a compatibility list for the index?

I’m contemplating selling my rift s and getting the index if the oculus link ends up giving me 97% of the experience of the rift s as I like the idea playing with the index controllers.

The only thing holding me back is the fact all the upcoming games I want to play are oculus exclusives and I’d hate technical issues when I’ve paid more money.
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
@aoaaron haven't tried Defector.

Where I have tried the Index with Revive it works very well. I used to be able to find all functionality of the Touch controllers emulated somehow by the Vive wands. Now, the Knuckles are a lot closer to the Touch controllers than the wands were so even prompts are instinctive and no thought required.

There are a few compatibility lists out there, here's one from the Revive GitHub: LibreVR/Revive. It claims Defector is working.

Oculus exclusives are of most interest but even the non-exclusives being supported by Revive is useful. Obviously Steam is my first choice for buying games but I can see why someone coming from an Oculus HMD may not want to rebuy games from Steam and prefer to Revive their way back into the Oculus store.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
@aoaaron haven't tried Defector.

Where I have tried the Index with Revive it works very well. I used to be able to find all functionality of the Touch controllers emulated somehow by the Vive wands. Now, the Knuckles are a lot closer to the Touch controllers than the wands were so even prompts are instinctive and no thought required.

There are a few compatibility lists out there, here's one from the Revive GitHub: LibreVR/Revive. It claims Defector is working.

Oculus exclusives are of most interest but even the non-exclusives being supported by Revive is useful. Obviously Steam is my first choice for buying games but I can see why someone coming from an Oculus HMD may not want to rebuy games from Steam and prefer to Revive their way back into the Oculus store.

I’ve bought all my games I possibly can on the steam store.

Sadly games like lone echo, storm land, robo recall, Asgard’s wrath, lone echo 2, defector, Vader immortal, chronos are my most wanted to play games and aren’t available on steam.

My plan is it the oculus link is good, I’ll get rid for the rift s and play with an index for a week or so. That way I think people get the best of both worlds. A native oculus headset with amazing black levels and the most technologically advanced headset for pcvr.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
Btw guys,

How are
1. Fov increase
2. The black levels (say compared to a rift s)

Those are my two major selling points for an index.
 

IRobot

Well-known Member
Done enough research into which headset to get.
Just pulled the trigger on an Index and one base station as only going to use it for sim racing.
Can always expand if some awesome game comes out in the future.
 

huxley

Well-known Member
Done enough research into which headset to get.
Just pulled the trigger on an Index and one base station as only going to use it for sim racing.
Can always expand if some awesome game comes out in the future.
The index is excellent for extended play as it so comfortable on the head.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
Does anyone live in BIRMINGHAM or near who has an index I can have a play with?
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
@aoaaron here are my thoughts on the FOV of the Index.


I talk about sweet spot, black levels and colours in some subsequent posts...

And here is where me release day verbal diarrhea started...

 
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aoaaron

Well-known Member
Thanks I'll give it a read.

Does anyone have an Index and an afternoon or evening free where I could demo one?

I might just need to buy one and check it out but its such an issue buying then returning.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
I hinted my thoughts on MS supporting OpenXR and allowing ANY HMD to be supported on XBOX. Maybe Sony is going the same way. Consoles support any TV, Wheel, etc so why not any HMD?

I just don’t know why any console would want or need an exclusive HMD. And if MS and Sony feel the heat with Google Stadia then they need to nullify the competition.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
I hinted my thoughts on MS supporting OpenXR and allowing ANY HMD to be supported on XBOX. Maybe Sony is going the same way. Consoles support any TV, Wheel, etc so why not any HMD?

I just don’t know why any console would want or need an exclusive HMD. And if MS and Sony feel the heat with Google Stadia then they need to nullify the competition.
Money. Exclusivity on VR is huge in the casual space where your average joe probably only knows about the PSVR.

If you know everyone who wants to play vr has to buy your console and your headset and your controllers and buy games from your store, you’re printing money. An open standard makes things less profitable.

With a technology that already isn’t very popular, with lower profit margins, it’s more worthwhile if that’s all maximised. Likewise Sony are pouring money into exclusivity deals and making their own games. They will want to recoup that investment in more ways than just software sales.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
...but you don’t need an exclusive HMD to have exclusive games. Which is why Valve support all headsets. But hey ho maybe I’m talking rubbish and GabeN got it all wrong.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
...but you don’t need an exclusive HMD to have exclusive games. Which is why Valve support all headsets. But hey ho maybe I’m talking rubbish and GabeN got it all wrong.
It helps with generating money. Sony make money off of their headsets, their PS Move controllers (god knows how much money they've made from those) and the headsets. Combined with releasing a refresh of the headset which I'm sure a lot of PSVR lovers bought again just for the HDMI pass through box.. why would they give up all that profit?

Of course Gabe and Valve want an open platform. Once again, they're aiming to make their money on software sales as they have since the dawn of time. Its easy for someone with the BIGGEST online platform for PC gaming to buy games say that everything should be open. Everyone in their right mind knows we'll buy games on steam if they're available there over other competitors because their infrastructure is so strong.

GabeN didn't get it wrong.. for himself and for steam's best interests. But other companies.. you know.. care about their own interests too. Valve'a whole business model has been very clear. Minimise any loss on headsets by passing all the cost onto the consumer, and make money from software sales whilst developing the minimum ammount of software required to have a presence in VR.

Sony aren't doing that. They're advertising, paying for TV ads, making it accessible to casuals, shipping their headsets out to every single store in town from tescos, to amazon to game, developing first party games, giving third parties buckets full of cash for exclusivity rights etc.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
...but Sony release Grand Tourismo and they don’t sell the wheel, they let other companies make that hardware so people can choose from multiple vendors and different price points. VR can go the same way.

If XBOX gets OpenXR support and you have the choice of RiftS, Pimax, WMR and Index and Sony only supports PSVR I know which console I’ll be buying next.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
...but Sony release Grand Tourismo and they don’t sell the wheel, they let other companies make that hardware so people can choose from multiple vendors and different price points. VR can go the same way.

If XBOX gets OpenXR support and you have the choice of RiftS, Pimax, WMR and Index and Sony only supports PSVR I know which console I’ll be buying next.

Yup, I agree but I think Sony are pumping a lot more money into VR and making it mainstream for a smaller audience than they are for Grand Turismo,

Up until the Quest's release (and even now) most people in the world when they think of VR think of PSVR.

Why would Sony want to say goodbye to that?

I agree, that would be awesome for a casual! Personally my issue with buying an Xbox is its just a crap gaming PC. haha. whilst sony have them juicy beautiful exclusives. heck i bought a ps4 pro for re7 VR like a chump and it was AMAZING.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
...but Sony release Grand Tourismo and they don’t sell the wheel, they let other companies make that hardware so people can choose from multiple vendors and different price points. VR can go the same way.

If XBOX gets OpenXR support and you have the choice of RiftS, Pimax, WMR and Index and Sony only supports PSVR I know which console I’ll be buying next.
BTW Atmos, I'm contemplating getting an Index! Just trying to find one to demo.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
I wonder how Valve would take it if Oculus opened the store officially to all headsets?
Tbh at this stage with Revive, I don't know why Oculus don't. Keep their games exclusive to the store but let all headsets use the store. Limit the operating system so they can't use the Oculus home environment and virtual desktop features and leave them stuck with SteamVR.

Have a warning which states we only officially support Oculus headsets and no other ones, but let people chance it and try.

If Occy are clever, next gen they'll release additional features on their controllers which the Index controllers can't mimic, release a slew of awesome games and then watch as revive users try to re-program them into their setups. I wouldn't totally mind if Oculus now went in a totally different direction with PCVR by offering things which the Index physically can't but I'm not holding my breath, given there are a few questions on what they're really going to even release next gen.

There are so many directions Oculus can go, and I completely understand why they want to keep their exclusive games on their store, but closing the store off to other users just seems like a bit much.

I guess then it would open up the whole of the internet to crying about how their vive doesn't work properly in lone echo 2 *insert new game here* which is bad press, for them in a system they can't be arsed to support.

I just think that by having a walled garden, its actually stopping other users seeing how awesome some of their exclusive titles are.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
Also don't get me wrong, I much prefer valve's solution of having an open platform for everyone to buy their games form whichever store they like best. And valve's forum support is excellent and their modding workshops aren't bad.

My issue with valve is when the f*** are the going to start contributing consistently in quality and quantity to the VR gaming space?
And my fear with Valve is as nice as an online gaming store they are, they really don't care what their gaming consumers want. We wanted portal 3, we wanted half life 3.. and they've just gotten away with being lazy and offering nothing. Instead we just get fun cute memes everywhere whilst any other game developer would have been slaughtered for it.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
...but lol, Valve have made their money and Steam is open to anyone who wants to release their games. No ones stoped from releasing new and exciting content. Valve havestood back for 3 years and allowed Devs to evolve and grow so now we see games like Onward, Pavlov, BeatSaber, Call of Starseed etc. If Valve released HL, Counter Strike, Portal early on then other smaller companies might as well throw in the towel. For example Vanishing Realms got breathing space before SkyrimVR came along. Stress Level Zero will released Hover Junkers and now about to release Boneworks.

Oculus are investing in VR not because they want to spend billions on non profit games but because they want to own the VR platform for their endgame - Social Media domination.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
...but lol, Valve have made their money and Steam is open to anyone who wants to release their games. No ones stoped from releasing new and exciting content. Valve havestood back for 3 years and allowed Devs to evolve and grow so now we see games like Onward, Pavlov, BeatSaber, Call of Starseed etc. If Valve released HL, Counter Strike, Portal early on then other smaller companies might as well throw in the towel. For example Vanishing Realms got breathing space before SkyrimVR came along. Stress Level Zero will released Hover Junkers and now about to release Boneworks.

Oculus are investing in VR not because they want to spend billions on non profit games but because they want to own the VR platform for their endgame - Social Media domination.

Yup, Valve always make their money but why should first party big developers like Sony or Oculus give valve 20% or whatever % commission steam take on a software sale when they've put all the investment into development?

Lol.. I love how you've spun Valve not making any games as a good thing. You should go into politics. And if they had released 10 or 20 exclusive games, you'd be bigging them up just the same.

I really like your enthusiasm for VR and for the Index but you're borderline a meme sometimes. hahaha.

I see it differently, as in that Valve have only now become more arsed about making VR games because they have their own headset. If a big name like Valve had started making games earlier, I think more big AAA developers would have taken note and contributed. Again this is all ifs and buts.
 

huxley

Well-known Member
If Oculus didn't natively open Home and Dash to other HMDs I would get another Index in an instant. Multitasking on the Oculus dash, pinned windows, web browsing etc is a dream to use. On SteamVR its a mare.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
If Oculus didn't natively open Home and Dash to other HMDs I would get another Index in an instant. Multitasking on the Oculus dash, pinned windows, web browsing etc is a dream to use. On SteamVR its a mare.

I've only stepped in Steam Home to open up fallout VR but its fudgeing horrid and terrible experience. It just feels so janky and unrefined, slow and feels like pushing it to do more than one thing is just asking it to lock up. The menu options are huge and unrefined too.

In comparison, Oculus home is smooth as butter, has huge level of customisation, mini games within ur home, virtual desktop and screens galore which seemingly no lag whatsoever and easy to open up any titles which run via oculus (or just open them via desktop).

Does revive allow you to use oculus home?



BTW I found a VR arcade which will let me play with the hindex for a play session (I think 30 minutes or an hour).

Can someone tell me exactly what I should use with the Index to test it straight away?
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
@aoaaron Aperture Hand Labs is a great introduction to the Knuckles capabilities. After that, you can't go wrong with the games in The Lab.

If black levels are a concern I'd suggest the Little Shop and Solar System experiences in The Lab. They are very dark but real experiences as opposed to some sort of stress test that will obviously prove the black levels aren't as good as OLED. Should give you a feel for whether the black levels are actually likely to bother you or not.
 

huxley

Well-known Member
I've just got myself an index (sim racing only), to me its a significant upgrade on the Pimax 5k that I came from, which was already a significant jump from the Oculus CV1.

The index seems pretty ideal for sim racing, cant comment on other forms of VR.
Like I stated in one of the other threads, the Index is such a comfy fit (for me) the fit and the off ear speakers are great for extended play. But prop not porn (so I`m told)
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
Like I stated in one of the other threads, the Index is such a comfy fit (for me) the fit and the off ear speakers are great for extended play. But prop not porn (so I`m told)
thats ok. quest is for porn as i like to watch porn in bed.
ive booked in for 8:15pm today so i will report back with my verdict on an hour long demo with one.
im quite fair with VR stuff and tech.. if i like it and its good, i buy it.

if i do, then my christmas presents to myself will be a 65'' OLED TV and a valve index.
 

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