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Valve index VR headset

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
And no QC issues yet which is good after both Oculus and HP managed to fudge up their headset launches!

Oculus appear to have sorted out the tracking for the Rift S when the controllers are close to the headset with the 1.29 PTC release that I installed last night, white flashes are still happening though.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
Congrats. I'm sure you'll love it coming from the OG Vive.

A few other interesting bits about Index. When you wipe the lenses they actually move. Yes its like they're on springs.

The A and B buttons on the Knuckles are also capsense so when you rest your fingers on them your thumb in VR goes down into a fist pose which is different to when you put your finger on the pill trackpad, the thumb is bent.

I stuggled getting the Knuckles finger tracking towork propperly but after resetting my PC it became near on perfect.

The external cameras work like they did for the OG Vive you have a Tron mode and a window pass through attached to the controller. The video quality looks good.

I had to re-install Revive to try a few Oculus games like the Climb which still uses trigger for grip, Echo VR which works really well will the grip buttons and Dream Deck. The T-Rex in Dream looked so solid and so real it was uncanny.

For Onward the Knuckles no longer fit into my DIY tube stock and the control sticks didn't seem to let me move at full speed. That game needs a few Knuckles tweeks I think.

When it comes to YouTube the Index lenses give you a full focused view and it slightly easier on the eye than the Pimax but there is still a Razor shaprness about the Pimax I like. The glare issue on the Index does affect video too sadly.

The Pimax has the ability to adjust contrast and brightness while the Index does not (yet) which means the Index looks a bit more washed out. This could be fixed.

If you have the Pimax with the DAS already the Index is not a upgrade imo. If you are picky about distortions you might be AS pickly about the Index glare or the Index FOV. Coming from the OG Vive - Index is a good upgrade all round and you will be happy.

I've not tried the Reverb but the small FOV is not for me.
I've not tried the Rift S the inside out tracking is not for me.
I've not tried the Samsung O+ the controllers are not for me.

So Pimax and Index are FOR ME the two best headsets to own in 2019 - so far.
Sounds a pretty decent summation. Hopefully by the time index is on general sale and not back order, pimax will also have got their stuff together and also offer a complete package (and will have finished twiddling with their design). (And maybe a price cut)
The thing which interests me about index is it feels (to me) like the 1st full vr package since the rift cv1 actually 1) be complete package ticking all boxes and 2) seem like an actual release package and not some dev kit.

Once pimax stop tweaking their design and actually offer a full product I may have an interesting decision to make. Rift s and the windows MR devices just ain't cutting it for me so if I want to upgrade CV1 my options are limited
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
I've just completed Vadar Immortals.

Knuckles worked like a charm and the game even took advantage of it's grip function so climbing ladders was a pleasure.

It's not cheap for the length of play time but its quality from start to finish. A bit dark for LCD HMDS and the black on white showed the glare effect on the Index pretty bad.

I did have to turn the graphics setting down to low as high gave a strobbing effect. It still looked great on low though, I couldn't tell the difference.
.
Hmmm interesting that VI an oculus store exclusive supports features the touch doesn't. I really hope this is forward planning with an idea that sometime in the near future other devices are gonna get proper support on the store.
Maybe reading too much into your post.
 

NM20

Well-known Member
Rift s and the windows MR devices just ain't cutting it for me so if I want to upgrade CV1 my options are limited
I’m in the same boat. I have considered picking up an ‘S’ just to check on the visual fidelity, it wouldn’t be a huge loss of money and possibly could return to amazon if the ipd was an issue.

I have also toyed with the idea of getting a valve pro off eBay. However it is the purchase of the lighthouses that is putting me off. I would feel like I was throwing good money after bad.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Hmmm, I can't believe I'm going to say this but I thinking of returning the Index.

My Knuckles are suffering from the stick click defect on the right controller as reported on Reddit.
In SteamVR when you push the stick forward to teleport the green pad appears but will release on its own accord. The Left stick stays forward and doesn't release - this is how it should work. The clicking on the sticks does not feels good either.

@Nivek TT I don't know if you get the same thing with yours?

The glare is always there and I just don't get that wow factor like I do with the Pimax. The Index colours seem more muted than on the Pimax.

So I might just send the whole thing back and get a refund, keep the 5k+ with the hope for more bug fixes. Then wait until the Knuckles to gets fixed and a price drop in a few months.
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
Looks like the talk of god rays a few weeks before it launched were true then. :(

I've seen a few people reporting issues with the middle finger for the finger tracking too.

You might be better off waiting a week or two to see what Valve can manage to fix with software updates before getting a refund.

I can't see the price dropping in a couple of months though, GabeN likes his doughnuts too much :laugh::D:laugh:

They will definitely see a sharp drop off in sales in a few months though but I can't see them dropping the price that soon, and even if they do they won't drop the price down to what it SHOULD have been at launch (£720).

I still can't believe that every single one of Oculus, HP and now Valve have released their headsets with such poor quality control. :eek:
 

ArmitageShanks

Well-known Member
This is why I won't be buying anything until after release since my 2080Ti fiasco. There are nearly always first day defects :( The god rays are expected, but defective controllers are a no-no.
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
God rays aren't bothering me and are a huge improvement over the Vive.

Finger tracking has the occasional wobble but it soon seems to recalibrate itself.

Sticks seem fine to me. I've not fully appreciated what people's complaints are.

Colours are fine to my eye. Blacks aren't as good as the Vive and finishing the hand demo app with a blue light in the dark wasn't a great idea.

I'm loving it. I'm keeping mine and I've sold my Vive.
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
I've been measuring the FOV using this environment, Steam Workshop :: ROV Test FOV & Resolution. Using 6mm foam with my original Vive I measured 100 degrees horizontal and just under 90 degrees vertical.

With the Index I get 112 degrees horizontal and 100 degrees vertical (60 degrees up and 40 degrees down). So a fair improvement.

This combined with the edge to edge clarity gives such a larger window into the world. I'm happy :D
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
There are always issues when headsets are first released, most of the time the issues can be sorted out by software updates.

I'm expecting software updates to sort out the dodgy finger tracking but I reckon the problems with the sticks will have to be sorted out with an RMA, they're likely to be hardware issues instead of software issues.
 

bilbosmeggins

Distinguished Member
I always tend to trust this guy’s opinion, and there is enough in the review to confirm that I don’t really want one. Certainly not at the price point they are peddling it at.

 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
Long video but just enjoyed the audio while in work.

Yes the sound is good but no one buys a VR headset for the audio. Its the easiest thing to fix yourself if you're unhappy with onboard audio. Its not the best thing about the headset and not the positive to open with. Surprised he didn't spend the first 20 minutes gushing over the f:censored:king box like many other reviewers.

His eye box / sweet spot comments do not align with my experiences at all. You do need to get your eyes into the perfect spot but with the adjustments on offer this isn't difficult and only needs to be done once. This could be a problem if you intend to share it frequently but that's not my use case. I'm not convinced its as stable as the welder's head gear mod I had for my Vive but its very close and feels very stable on my head. Only issue I've experienced is it has a tendency to tilt upwards on occasion, the bottom lifts away from my face, due to the pull of the overhead strap but this is very infrequent and a very quick fix.

Agree with black levels though; however, in terms of trade off I'll take all the other positives. When playing Gorn I found the colours to be noticeably punchier than I recall from my original Vive, though this was in a bright environment.

This environment Steam Workshop :: ROV Test FOV & Resolution comes with a glare stress test. The original Vive failed it spectacularly and the Index does so much better. You see a smear around the outer third of the FOV but its so much better than the original Vive and hasn't distracted me in any real world game situations.

He loved it for driving games, really appreciated the higher framerate. @bilbosmeggins that's what you're looking for I think I recall? Good suggestion of buying just the HMD and a single lighthouse, circa £600, for simmers.

For the Knuckles, he's right about the thumb tracking. There's four spots your thumb can be and it flicks between them. Seems a little strange when compared to the full analogue tracking of the fingers. Though even finger tracking is in one direction, they curl but they don't move side to side, e.g. a Vulcan salute isn't possible as some have claimed (though this may be just the way a game interprets the skeletal info). The buttons, trackpad and thumbstick are too crowded but I'm getting used to them. They're too expensive and if its the finger tracking driving the high price its not justified as a benefit to the experience yet... but they do feel magical! Apparently all the calculations of the sensor info is done onboard the controller, so they've got some smarts in them. I've still not experienced this thumbstick issue but I've not used the thumbstick much in what I've done with the Index so far.
 
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Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
UploadVR's final review, though its short and mostly just summarises their earlier 'hands on'...

https://uploadvr.com/valve-index-review/

They've also kindly listed all games that support Index Controllers (really disappointed RecRoom isn't there yet)...

https://uploadvr.com/index-controller-games/

Not on the list but Gorn plays well with the Index controllers. No on screen finger tracking but you simply open/close your hand around the controller to drop/pickup weapons.
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
So all three headset manufacturers have managed to fudge up their launches. Unbelievable. :eek:

Two (HP and Valve) have hardware issues mainly and one (Oculus) have mainly software issues.

Looks like Valve are going to have a good few RMAs to get through by the sounds of it :(
 

huxley

Well-known Member
Thing is with the hardware stuff, they can sort out the next batch or delay shipment.
The VR landscape isn't looking so appealing at the moment.
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
Thing is with the hardware stuff, they can sort out the next batch or delay shipment.
The VR landscape isn't looking so appealing at the moment.
Yup, but it's not going to be cheap to do though I don't think. Plus they have to RMA all of those faulty controllers.

I wonder how widespread the problem is though? A bit weird how some controllers work and some don't work.
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
No controller issues here!

There have been some brave souls who have had their Knuckles apart and theorise the shafts are a touch short to actuate the depress at the very edges of play. Someone claims to have fixed it with a 2mm blob of solder, which was brave.

Been playing The Gallery Ep 2, which is a dark game and it had me missing the deep blacks my original Vive :(

Arkham VR fared much better, not sure why. As did VR Paradise... if you like that sorta thing :D
 
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thesnowdog

Well-known Member
You'll soon get used to the black levels though if they're anything like the Rift S.

I suspect that Valve are also using BOE panels because the panels in both headsets are fast-switch LCDs.

I wish that iFixit would get off their arses and take these things apart. I don't think they've taken a headset apart since the Vive and Rift.
 

bilbosmeggins

Distinguished Member
He loved it for driving games, really appreciated the higher framerate. @bilbosmeggins that's what you're looking for I think I recall? Good suggestion of buying just the HMD and a single lighthouse, circa £600, for simmers.
Flight sims really, but similar requirements. I’m going to take a step back until the dust settles. See where Pimax end up, and also the HP Reverb. Then see who sits at the top of the pile for sims. There doesn’t seem to be a HMD on the market without issues at present.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Anyone playing Vader Immortal should do this gamma mod to up the black level a bit.

Go into this INI file:

%username%\appdata\local\WKND\saved\config\WindowsNoEditor\Engine.ini

and add this string of code:

[/Script/Engine.Engine]
DisplayGamma=3.0

Looks a lot betterbut if you want it even brighter go for 3.5
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
@Atmos what's the default value? Is this just for Vader Immortal or does this affect all games?

Been ages since I used Revive. I tried to play Luckey's Tale with my Index but received and entitlement check error. Looks like something needs tweaking.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
It’s the same on the Rift S too. Overly dark.

This mod is for Vader Immortal only so works for both Index and Rift S.

Revive works great with Index I even bought Lone Echo which plays fantastic with Knuckles.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
@Nivek TTI don’t think there is a default valve you just cut and past the text at the end of the file with notepad.

2.5 seems too dark
3.5 seems too bright
But 3.0 to me seems just right.
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
VRFocus' review. You can skip the first few paragraphs, they're all about the f:censored:king box...

Valve Index – The Review

I remember loads of excitement about the original Rift's box... No one gives a s:censored:t.

No-one ever said:
Ooh, I do like the optics, fov and frame rate of such and such a headset but t'other headset has a much nicer box, I'm gonna buy that.
And no-one ever said:
I know this headset seems quite expensive but the price is more than justified by the stunning box!
 

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