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using pre outs?

j17ykp

Standard Member
Hi all

i currently have a pioneer vsx 1017 av amp that has a set of pre outs, i want to beef up & improve to a noticable degree the stero performance of my system so i'm looking to utilise this feature.

here in lies my problem due to the pio havinf pre outs would it be worth getting a dedicated stero power amp, if im right from what ive read these maintain a linear volume in comparison to teh AV amp but imrpove stero sound if i was to go this route my conections would be

nad c515BEE --into the vsx 1017( optical ) ---the front l/r chanels to the power amp (via pre out) and one pre out to the active sub -- power amp to the Epos els 303 speakers

im hoping this is a viable option as it will leave the sound stage balance at all volumes when watching movies in a 5.1 surround sound set up but also getting better stero performance

or is a intergrated amp (in this case a NAD c326BEE) connected by the pre outs and "balancing" the speakers (something that im not sure about) teh correct way togo, this is more common apprach hence why i think the power amp option isnt viable

ive given myself a headache trying the mull this over! and would like to get ball rolling so the bits are in place before my hosue move


one final thing is i would like to buy the CD player and power or intergrated up for around £400 im fine to look at second hand or ex demo equipment


thanks

Jay
 
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dablk

Active Member
Hi there,
First off do you have the cd player yet?

You suggest that your plugging the cdplayer in to the pioneer via the optical. For a cheap and simple test. Try using the Cd players analogue outputs. Let the cdplayer do the work rather than the av amp. You might find this your cdplayer sound a host better than before.

Its just a matter of which DAC you find better.

adding a power amp is the correct way to go unless your thinking of running the cdplayer into the intergrated and therefore not using any of the av side when your listening to cds. Balancing i have always though of as a bit of a pain in the ":cool:" unless it gets set and left...in which case you effectivley have a poweramp anyway.

Good power amps unfortunately even secondhand arent ever that cheap either.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Many, but not all, integrated stereo amps have a special input known by terms such as "home theatre mode", "processor mode", "unity gain".

The idea is that you connect the pre-outs on the Pioneer to the processor mode input and configure the "unity gain" on the integrated stereo amp and/or the "speaker level trim" on the Pioneer. After this, the Pioneer takes full control of the volume and thereby ensures perfect speaker level balancing irrespective of listening level. For stereo sources you just use the stereo amp normally, of course.

Therefore you should ensure that any integrated stereo amp you purchase has a processor mode input.
 

j17ykp

Standard Member
thanks guys, thats left me with some more points to ponder on

i havnt got the CD player yet, but when i do i will try both phono and optical to see what gives me a better result

so am i right in thinking that both options are suitable and its merley what method you prefer?

also mark, im fairly new to all this could you possibly point me in the direction of any particular brands tht have this unity gain feature?

thanks
 

dablk

Active Member
thanks guys, thats left me with some more points to ponder on

i havnt got the CD player yet, but when i do i will try both phono and optical to see what gives me a better result

so am i right in thinking that both options are suitable and its merley what method you prefer?

also mark, im fairly new to all this could you possibly point me in the direction of any particular brands tht have this unity gain feature?

thanks

yeah there is no right or wrong.

a general guide would be if your using a decent dedicated cdplayer then its onboard dacs are more likely to be more musical than some av amps, so use the analogues. You might however be using a very high quality musical av amp so the reverse might be true.

Theres no hard fast rule..just depends on your own kit.

if you imagine in uber class kit the cdplayer gets split in half.

You then buy the cd transport (which is effectively what your doing if you use the optical output of a cdplayer), then a dac in a seperate box, then an amp.

Its one reason you can get good hifi results with cheap dvd players being used as transports and good musical av amps.
 

j17ykp

Standard Member
thanks!

i think the power amp combo is the way i might go (one less remote and all that) as the AV amp has all the conections that i need plus an ipod one for the misses :rotfl: in addition to it not being bad at all, but not being quite right either.

i was looking at the audiolab 8000p, & nad C515BEE combo (unless i find a decently priced used arcam p85 knocking about) will just have to save some more pennies and see whats left over after the impending house move i guess
 

old rocker

Active Member
thanks!

i think the power amp combo is the way i might go (one less remote and all that) as the AV amp has all the conections that i need plus an ipod one for the misses :rotfl: in addition to it not being bad at all, but not being quite right either.

i was looking at the audiolab 8000p, & nad C515BEE combo (unless i find a decently priced used arcam p85 knocking about) will just have to save some more pennies and see whats left over after the impending house move i guess

I upgraded from just using the Sony to the 8000P powering the fronts. Massive difference in sound, tighter bass and the mids much cleaner. Highly reccomend the AudioLab.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
also mark, im fairly new to all this could you possibly point me in the direction of any particular brands tht have this unity gain feature?
Actually, most brands have the feature in their stereo amplifiers, other than the very cheapest. It's become very much a standard feature. However, since it's not ubiquitous, verification before purchase is advisable to avoid disappointment.
 

S Bibby

Active Member
Hi,
Apologies if this message is not understood, I've spent some time rephrasing it. I'm trying to connect a Marantz PM7200 Integrated Amp to a Yamaha AV Amp via Pre-out to Processor in for Stereo. I assume that the front speakers in the AV setup will be connected to the Marantz at all times.

The issue is that this Amp uses a Quarter A switch, which means that the Amp outputs 25 watts in Class A and 95 without. What I am wondering is whether I will have to reset the levels in the AV Amp to deal with large changes in output. If the AV processing can cope with this I'm OK but I am concerned that the speakers might suffer.

Thanks,
Simon
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
What I am wondering is whether I will have to reset the levels in the AV Amp to deal with large changes in output.
A power amp has a fixed gain (figure should be in the manual), and hence the levels in the AV Amp will be correct for all volumes without alteration. The amp's maximal output power is orthogonal to its gain. Since the stereo amp's input impedance is fixed, the AV amp won't know anything. This blissful ignorance means that there is nothing with which it needs to cope. The only issue you may face is clipping, but that too is independent of the Yamaha.
 
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S Bibby

Active Member
Mark,
Since the stereo amp's input impedance is fixed, the AV amp won't know anything.
Dankeschone,
That's a good reason to buy an Amp with processor mode - fortunately my speakers are fairly efficient. Class A is relatively low-powered but I don't listen to anything too loud. I suppose I will be better off listening to music without having to set turn the volume up unnecessarily.
 
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