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Using a UK-registered Sky box abroad

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Kopacabana

Established Member
Hi there

I haven't found an accurate, reliable answer to this question despite researching on the internet and contacting Sky directly. Twice.

I have a Sky+HD box will the full Sky pack (Entertainment+, Sports, Movies, HD etc. etc.) I am going on holiday to France in a couple of weeks. The place we're staying at has a standard Sky box installed which receives all the standard Sky FTV channels (I know it works as we've been there before).

My question is, will I get my UK Sky service if I take my box and viewing card? (I won't be connected to broadband so I know I won't get my usual service for OnDemand etc.).

The answer from Sky is a resounding 'NO'. They tell me it's illegal, and reading through the Ts and Cs there is a clause which states the viewing card is to be used only in the UK and Ireland.

Whether it's 'illegal' or not, I want to know if it's actually possible. I don't want to lug my box all the way over there if it's going to be a waste of time.

And no, the box will not be connected to a phone line (it isn't in the UK either).

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

kevkbuk

Distinguished Member
As you've already witnessed the boxes don't know where they are.... If the box that's already there gets the required channels yours will to.
 
Whether it's 'illegal' or not, I want to know if it's actually possible.

Since you've already been told by Sky that what you are proposing to do is contrary to their T & Cs (which you HAVE agreed to abide by), I'm fairly certain that asking for, or giving, any advice (other than what has been posted already - and which you should have been able to deduce for yourself !), would be likely to put yourself and any Responders (and the Forum itself) at risk of investigation for conspiracy to commit fraud !!!
 

Kopacabana

Established Member
Ever broken the speed limit? Ripped a CD to MP3?
Coveted thy neighbour's ox?

Points taken, but I'm sure Sky have bigger fish to fry.
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
Since you've already been told by Sky that what you are proposing to do is contrary to their T & Cs (which you HAVE agreed to abide by), I'm fairly certain that asking for, or giving, any advice (other than what has been posted already - and which you should have been able to deduce for yourself !), would be likely to put yourself and any Responders (and the Forum itself) at risk of investigation for conspiracy to commit fraud !!!

Eh

Being against Sky's terms and conditions does not make it illegal :eek:

Many companies impose terms and conditions, many of which are actually illegal in the terms of the law. Ever heard of the regulations re unfair terms and conditions, most of which many of us think Sky's conditions if challenged they would not succeed in any civil action.

At the very worst, Sky could simply turn off the viewing card (all they would do) and sue in a civil court . It's laughable that you suggest that in some way this is a criminal offence.

Frankly your post is pretty daft. Why you think anyone would be prosecuted for taking a legally obtained card, which clearly can't be used in the UK while the OP is on holiday to watch services he has paid for is fraud is simply stupid. Fraud infers some loss to the service provider (there is none). The OP simply is using a service he has paid for. Precisely what do you think that Sky's lawyers are going to claim damages for ?

You should also check out the EU regulations re TV without borders in the EU.

Only recently roaming charges for mobile phones have been scrapped by the EU (now soon to be illegal terms and conditions).

I await my summons for conspiracy to commit fraud, suspect it will take rather a long time to arrive :)

Kobocana, your question is yes it's possible, but every channel on the epg may not be usable, depending on the location and dish size used.

Two new satellites with very tight UK spot beams are now in service. Across much of the Iberian peninsula and the extreme South Of France many UK PSB services may require a larger dish than you may have.
 
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Ever broken the speed limit?

Yes (occasionally - and I have been caught doing so; and paid the appropriate penalties).

Ripped a CD to MP3?

Never.

Coveted thy neighbour's ox?

No ... but I've certainly contemplated my neighbour's (wife's) ass !!!

Points taken, but I'm sure Sky have bigger fish to fry.

Never heard of the RIAA pursuing home-based music/video file downloaders/sharers for $millions ?
 
haha please tell us more.

It's just a play on the words of the Biblical text previously alluded to :-

'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.'
 

Kopacabana

Established Member
Thanks for the contributions (!)

I appreciate your reasoned and down-to-earth response, Graham. Makes complete sense to me.

I just want to know if I can watch a bit of telly (that I've already paid for) while I'm out of the country for a week. I'm not planning to mastermind an evil crime empire to bring the might of BSkyB shuddering to its knees! (Yet.....)

Cheers lads!
 

davemurgatroyd2

Distinguished Member
You should also check out the EU regulations re TV without borders in the EU.
The "TV sans frontieres" directives only apply to FTA broadcasts and specifically exclude encrypted pay TV services - however the ECJ rulings last year confirm that it is not criminally illegal to use a viewing card outside its territory but specifcally did not mention the right for a provider to have exclusions about its use outside its territory which is allowed in the TV sans frontieres directive (something I believe the French cinema and TV industry pushed the EU to have included).
 

davemurgatroyd2

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the contributions (!)

I appreciate your reasoned and down-to-earth response, Graham. Makes complete sense to me.

I just want to know if I can watch a bit of telly (that I've already paid for) while I'm out of the country for a week. I'm not planning to mastermind an evil crime empire to bring the might of BSkyB shuddering to its knees! (Yet.....)

Cheers lads!
Technically speaking it is "illegal" as in a breach of civil contract law. It is physically possible providing you can receive the appropriate satellite signals - I have done so myself. By phoning Sky and asking about such use you have run the risk of having your account terminated and the viewing cards turned off as Sky are contractually obliged (with the content providers) to do for any card they suspect of being used in territories that they do not have the rights for (i.e. anywhere outside the British Isles and certain off-shore/maritime contracts) that other providers have the rights for.
 

logiciel

Moderator
I'm fairly certain that asking for, or giving, any advice (other than what has been posted already - and which you should have been able to deduce for yourself !)
That's the point. If you'd done that, or followed kevkbuk's advice, none of this would have been necessary.
 
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Graham,

Please take the time to read my Post thoroughly and you'll find that you have misinterpreted and/or misquoted most of what I've said !!

Being against Sky's terms and conditions does not make it illegal

I only said it was 'contrary to their T & Cs', and DID NOT use the word 'illegal'.

It's laughable that you suggest that in some way this is a criminal offence.

I actually said that any further discussion was likely to put the OP and any Responders (and the Forum itself) at risk of investigation for conspiracy to commit fraud.

Frankly your post is pretty daft.

Thank you for your thoughtful insight !

Why you think anyone would be prosecuted for taking a legally obtained card, which clearly can't be used in the UK while the OP is on holiday to watch services he has paid for is fraud is simply stupid

I NEVER suggested ANY of that !!!


PLEASE DON'T PUT YOUR WORDS INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S MOUTH !!!
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
Graham,

Please take the time to read my Post thoroughly and you'll find that you have misinterpreted and/or misquoted most of what I've said !!



I only said it was 'contrary to their T & Cs', and DID NOT use the word 'illegal'.



I actually said that any further discussion was likely to put the OP and any Responders (and the Forum itself) at risk of investigation for conspiracy to commit fraud.



Thank you for your thoughtful insight !



I NEVER suggested ANY of that !!!


PLEASE DON'T PUT YOUR WORDS INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S MOUTH !!!

Fraud can be criminal offence. To commit fraud you have in some way to deprive someone of their legal rights, usually involving a sum of money. Damages could be pursued in a civil court or a criminal court by the crown prosecution service.

Using a personally owned Sky box abroad and an associated Sky subscription card for a short period during a holiday defrauds no-one. It doesn't cost Sky a brass farthing. So what basis would they have for pursuing a fraud claim.

Using such a term and expressions like conspiracy to commit fraud are totally OTT. Frankly there are hundreds of thousands of ex pats living in the EU who have a sky box and use a Sky subscription card either during holidays or even permanently.

Take a caravanner who quite legally takes his Sky box and card on holiday. By your argument there's no fraud if the caravan is located in a field in Dover, take the ferry to Calais and locate the caravan in a field there, the owner of the box is somehow committing a fraud. I can imagine Sky sueing this individual, they would look completely stupid. Any damages would be derisory.

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Fraud can be criminal offence. To commit fraud you have in some way to deprive someone of their legal rights, usually involving a sum of money. Damages could be pursued in a civil court or a criminal court by the crown prosecution service.

Using a personally owned Sky box abroad and an associated Sky subscription card for a short period during a holiday defrauds no-one. It doesn't cost Sky a brass farthing. So what basis would they have for pursuing a fraud claim.

You've missed the point, yet again !

I said

'I'm fairly certain that asking for, or giving, any advice (other than what has been posted already - and which you [the OP] should have been able to deduce for yourself !), would be likely to put yourself and any Responders (and the Forum itself) at risk of investigation for conspiracy to commit fraud.'

The only crime to which I am referring is the CONSPIRACY - NOT the (potential) fraud itself !

The Forum has rules against discussing illegal activities or by-passing copyright issues.

It is the DISCUSSION which helps or assists the OP to contravene the T & Cs (which he has agreed to abide by) which is the problem !
 

Kopacabana

Established Member
I've been watching this thread from the sidelines and I think it's gone a little too far. Some of you are making mountains out of molehills.

From a legal perspective, it's one thing to have contracted terms and conditions, it's quite another to enforce them, not least when considering the cost. And in enforcing them, before taking legal advice, any savvy business (let alone a PLC or conglomerate) would carefully consider the circumstances and context within which the purported 'offence' was committed, long before seeking legal advice.

If the 'offence' was such that a person deliberately sought to use the service while overseas for a significant portion of the year, then yes, there could and should be a problem. If it's a chap popping over the Channel for a week, it's a very different story.

That said, I was merely asking the question of how would it work. Could it be done? I wasn't inviting readers to open a hornet's nest full of deceitful propositions and misdemeanour. If you feared it might be heading that way and didn't like the road it was going down then you should have abstained from the thread and not continued to stoke the supposed fire.

It's quite a while since I was a regular poster on here. This place used to be great - full of friendly types looking to help and learn, and I enjoyed many sensible, often enlightening discussions. Now it looks like this forum may well have erred the way of so many others and become merely a virtual pub for people who enjoy squabbling to score points against each other. And that's a shame.
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
:eek:

I said

'I'm fairly certain that asking for, or giving, any advice (other than what has been posted already - and which you [the OP] should have been able to deduce for yourself !), would be likely to put yourself and any Responders (and the Forum itself) at risk of investigation for conspiracy to commit fraud.'

The only crime to which I am referring is the CONSPIRACY - NOT the (potential) fraud itself !

The Forum has rules against discussing illegal activities or by-passing copyright issues.

It is the DISCUSSION which helps or assists the OP to contravene the T & Cs (which he has agreed to abide by) which is the problem ![/QUOTE]

Not quite sure if this is a wind up or you are really serious. If you are I don't think I have ever seen a post displaying such a degree of lack of common sense :eek:
The standard definition of a conspiracy to defraud was provided by Lord Dilhorne in Scott v Metropolitan Police Commissioner,[1] when he said that
it is clearly the law that an agreement by two or more by dishonesty to deprive a person of something which is his or to which he is or would be entitled and an agreement by two or more by dishonesty to injure some proprietary right of his, suffices to constitute the offence of conspiracy to defraud.[2]
Conspiracy to defraud therefore contains two key elements; that the conspiracy involved dishonesty, and that if the conspiracy was undertaken, the victim's property rights would be harmed. This does not require the defendants' actions to directly result in the fraud; in R v Hollinshead,[3] the House of Lords held that producing devices designed to alter electricity meter readings constituted conspiracy to defraud, even though the actual fraud would be carried out by members of the public rather than the conspirators. In two situations, it will not even be necessary for the actions to directly lead to any kind of financial loss for the victim; these are when the conspirators plan to deceive a person holding public office into acting counter to their duties, and when the conspirators know that their actions put the victim's property at risk, even if the risk never materialises.[4]

You cannot seriously imagine any aspect of this thread comes anywhere near the above, nor are we discussing illegal activities or copyright theft. In one post you say you never said what the OP proposed is illegal, now you say I am discussing an illegal activity.

So what you are saying is what the OP want's to do isn't illegal, discussing it is.

If anyone here is breaking the terms and conditions here, it's you.

Accusing a member of conspiracy to defraud is tantamount to libel. You and the moderators on this forum should consider your the situation in respect of your ill advised tirade.

Perhaps you may like to advise this den of conspirators at the following link, of the risk they have of facing the full wrath of the law (there's over a million of them and they have got away scot free since 2001)

Satellite for caravans. (Satellite TV at home and abroad)


There are hundred of thousands of ex pats who have a UK address or relations prepared to obtain a Sky card for use abroad, roughly the same number of posts about this in all sorts of forums including this one. That's a true breach of the T&C's.

Consider the following realities.

Sky has no way of knowing that a box isn't in the UK

If they did, they would be very very unlikely to do anything about it. If they did anything to one they would have to treat everyone in the same situation exactly the same. Think of the effect of the instant termination of hundreds of thousands of Sky subscriptions. One thing you can definitely say about Sky is the are prepared to make money in every possible way. Charging to record on a box you own is one example.

Of course if asked they will quote T&C's but in reality they make no attempt at all to enforce these, knowing full well if they did, the effect on the share price of such a large proportion of their income.
 
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logiciel

Moderator
Thread closed.
 
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