USA - racism

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ono

Well-known Member
Whether its always been there or stoked up further by a President who many people consider to be a racist, this month has not been a good one for racial harmony in the US.
  • Ahmaud Arbery being killed in a modern day lynching in the deep south;
  • Amy Cooper attempting to weaponise stereotypes against a black man in Central Park, and, of course
  • George Floyd being killed by a white policeman in Minneapolis - and the rioting after.
I've seen the video footage that exists for all of the above and everyone is sickening.
 

aVdub

Distinguished Member
From memory I believe it has always been a problem in the States.
 

Ono

Well-known Member
From memory I believe it has always been a problem in the States.
Yes. It is but it is still horrific to see it.

We don't know what Derek Chauvin's mindset was. It may have been that he was a controlling bully at home so it may not have been racially motivated (but I tend to think it was to some extent as he felt he could treat a black man how he wanted). Who knows. It doesn't excuse him for killing another man in such a cruel and heartless way.

But we do know that Amy Cooper is a racist (even if only subconciously) as she used that difference in colour and the deep rooted stereotype that a black man is bound to be seen as a danger to a white woman.

 

blicky_1

Well-known Member
From memory I believe it has always been a problem in the States.
My first and only visit to the states (for three months medical treatment in Jacksonville, 2014) and I could not believe how bad it was, as an example some days we popped into fast food places (McDonalds/KFC etc) most of the workers in these places are black and obviously lower paid workers. Being in the queue and seeing how white American's speak to them is atrocious (witnessed on many occasions) one even throwing their drink at them as they got the order wrong, I had to try hard not to intervene but when you know someone might have a gun it's just not worth it.

We got to know a few people in one particular Burger King and and they noticed our 'British' accent (they loved it and just keep asking us to speak!) and they loved the fact that we spoke to them as 'normal people'

For all things that maybe great in America this is not one of them and i'm not surprised at the reactions.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I read the other day Chauvin and Floyd should have known each other as they both worked in the same bar/club as security. Chauvin legally moonlighting as their official police security and Floyd as a regular staff member.

The owner of the club said Chauvin had a short temper, seemed scared when confronted and went for his mace/pepper spray at the merest provocation which begs the question, why keep him on?



My first and only visit to the states (for three months medical treatment in Jacksonville, 2014) and I could not believe how bad it was, as an example some days we popped into fast food places (McDonalds/KFC etc) most of the workers in these places are black and obviously lower paid workers.
Not the same thing, but I was staying with a friend in LA years ago, in a quite poor predominantly non-white neighbourhood. We went into KFC and I was utterly shocked.

You got served your food through a 2-way safe. All the staff were behind thick, I presume bullet-proof glass. I felt fine up until that point.
 

Ono

Well-known Member
I've only ever been to NYC and Chicago - both places use to seeing non-whites so never personally felt unsafe (as a Chinese person) but I would definitely be reluctant to visit inner southern states like Kentucky and Arkansas.
 

blicky_1

Well-known Member
For any of you that watch 9-1-1 on Sky there will be an upcoming episode in which the police pull over an unarmed black man with kids in the car (the ex husband of the lead female Police officer in the show) TV show I know but watch this and you will see what I mean by the way they are treated.

(Rage: Series 3. Episode 5 for anyone who is interested!)

Buck continues to move forward with his lawsuit against the LAFD and the city but is worried about how it will affect his former teammates. Buck's lawyer also throws the team under the bus during the hearing. Buck is determined to get his job back and fights with the lawyer. Meanwhile, Michael, May, and Harry experience a traumatic traffic stop with an officer using excessive force prompting Athena to take matters into her own hands. Also, after being arrested for assault, Lena takes Eddie to a fighting ring to take out his anger. The 118 also deals with a protest at a duck farm, a woman who is trapped in a "rage room" with her husband's mistress, and a road rage incident that occurs in the parking lot of a grocery store that the team is shopping at. At the end of the episode, Bobby tells Buck that he is reinstating him back to the 118 due to the potential backlash the city might face. Also, Hen and Karen's plan to have more children takes a turn for the worse.
 
Last edited:

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
Check the stats. More white men are killed by the police in America than Black's.

Not for one minute am I justifying the murder, far from it. But the media likes to pull the wool...
 

blicky_1

Well-known Member
Check the stats. More white men are killed by the police in America than Black's.

Not for one minute am I justifying the murder, far from it. But the media likes to pull the wool...
I get what you are saying but what is the ratio of whites vs. blacks in the US?

Also there are some crazy white Americans out there, I went to switch tills when queuing up in a Walmart and got in someones way that was going to jump in first, a clear lift of his jacket showing a concealed gun was enough for me to stand back and let him through!
 

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
I get what you are saying but what is the ratio of whites vs. blacks in the US?

Also there are some crazy white Americans out there, I went to switch tills when queuing up in a Walmart and got in someones way that was going to jump in first, a clear lift of his jacket showing a concealed gun was enough for me to stand back and let him through!
Thats including the population stats.

I'm not saying America doesn't have issues, I mean Jesus H, what a backwards country it is.

Should have stayed British, but like HK.
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
Check the stats. More white men are killed by the police in America than Black's.

Not for one minute am I justifying the murder, far from it. But the media likes to pull the wool...
Can you provide the link to your stats.

Everything I see online is the opposite. Black deaths are disproportionate to their population size
Eg
BCD98F58-2AED-4786-A3A9-EE351BFC455B.png

3D245804-8E15-48A7-9BDA-090111472920.jpeg

Can post more charts, but they all show the same.

Say (theoretically speaking) if every single white person in China was shot dead by the police this very second.
I’m still pretty confident I could make the declaration that ‘More Chinese people are killed by police than White people in China’, despite the fact that they’ve killed every White person in the country.
 
Last edited:

tonyamh

Active Member
Something odd about this whole thing in my opinion
it felt more like an execution rather than just an arrest
so many unanswered questions at the moment
why when he was already in handcuffs wouldn't you just pick him up and put him in the back of a police car
Knowing you're being filmed why would two police officers continue to do what they've done with no contact between them that's really strange
It does make me wonder what else will come out as there's more to it imo
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
Check the stats. More white men are killed by the police in America than Black's.

Not for one minute am I justifying the murder, far from it. But the media likes to pull the wool...
I'd like to see your sources for this too as I've just had the quickest of looks and can't find anything that doesn't say the complete opposite.
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
Something odd about this whole thing in my opinion
it felt more like an execution rather than just an arrest
so many unanswered questions at the moment
why when he was already in handcuffs wouldn't you just pick him up and put him in the back of a police car
Knowing you're being filmed why would two police officers continue to do what they've done with no contact between them that's really strange
It does make me wonder what else will come out as there's more to it imo
Given they were apparently already acquaintances and worked security at a club, the rest of the script could write itself.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Can you provide the link to your stats.

Everything I see online is the opposite. Black deaths are disproportionate to their population size
Eg
View attachment 1309337
View attachment 1309338
Can post more charts, but they all show the same.

Say (theoretically speaking) if every single white person in China was shot dead by the police this very second.
I’m still pretty confident I could make the declaration that ‘More Chinese people are killed by police than White people in China’, despite the fact that they’ve killed every White person in the country.
I’m not saying that these charts are wrong, and I not saying that there isn’t a racism but I always prefer to see a complete set of statistics so that I am not making a one-sided judgement.

In this case there should be accompanying charts showing the number of crimes committed by race, particularly the number of crimes which involve carrying weapons.

It might be that the statistics match and it is disproportionate.

We see the same in the UK, “the number of eastern europeans in prison is disproportionate” suggesting that the police and legal system discriminate against them or “the number of BAME people dying of Covid is disproportionate” suggesting what, that the NHS discriminates against them.

More likely there are underlying reasons for these, but usually the people publishing these statistics are trying to score an agenda point and it suits their cause not to disclose all information.

As I said, I do think the US has a racism issue but if I am to look at statistics I want them all not just one side of the story. And I’m not saying that I expect to see a different conclusion, I just think a better statistic would be number of shootings vs number of violent crimes rather than number of shootings vs population.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
In this case there should be accompanying charts showing the number of crimes committed by race, particularly the number of crimes which involve carrying weapons.
But even then, how do we know we can trust those figures?
How often in these cases (in the US) does the initial police report initially say something like, suspect resisted arrest/assaulted an officer etc (thus this would be recorded in the stats as a crime), then only later video footage comes out that contradicts the police report?

That’s only cases where there’s video footage to contradict the police report. How often is a ‘crime’ recorded to justify an officer treating someone poorly (not necessarily resulting in death)?

UK I would trust those crime figures more, US not so much.
 

Steve N

Distinguished Member
Maybe this is less to do with racism but more to do with trigger happy, macho mentality cops?
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
But even then, how do we know we can trust those figures?
How often in these cases (in the US) does the initial police report initially say something like, suspect resisted arrest/assaulted an officer etc (thus this would be recorded in the stats as a crime), then only later video footage comes out that contradicts the police report?

That’s only cases where there’s video footage to contradict the police report. How often is a ‘crime’ recorded to justify an officer treating someone poorly (not necessarily resulting in death)?

UK I would trust those crime figures more, US not so much.
Personally, I don’t doubt these figures, I’m sure shootings are probably recorded and the data available.

I would just like to see other supporting data, not just a selective set chosen by the person making the point.

You need to look at cause and effect. For example, take this nonsense - data has found that 95% of those convicted in the UK on racial incitement charges had a TV Licence. Undeniable proof that people that have a TV Licence are racists. The underlying stats are accurate and fact, it is the link that is BS.


Cheers,

Nigel
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
You need to look at cause and effect. For example, take this nonsense - data has found that 95% of those convicted in the UK on racial incitement charges had a TV Licence. Undeniable proof that people that have a TV Licence are racists. The underlying stats are accurate and fact, it is the link that is BS.
Stats around whether someone has a TV licence are undeniable though. Someone either has one or they don’t.

What I’m saying is if I was a racist cop & I saw a black guy for example litter, & I stop him & he gives me lip, I could easily rough him up & say he was trying to run away & resist arrest/assaulting an officer & book him for that. +1 on the crime stats.
It’s not the same as whether someone has a TV licence or not.
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
Here’s some figures anyway

Looks like it’d be a lot of work to do a proper analysis (which I wouldn’t want to do).

Your specific stat re: Weapons
White- 55.9%
Black- 41.8%

Just at a quick glance, for most crimes, the white figures are much higher, but I would put that down to the population size like my China example above.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Stats around whether someone has a TV licence are undeniable though. Someone either has one or they don’t.

What I’m saying is if I was a racist cop & I saw a black guy for example litter, & I stop him & he gives me lip, I could easily rough him up & say he was trying to run away & resist arrest & book him for that. +1 on the crime stats.
It’s not the same as whether someone has a TV licence or not.
Yeah, but these stats are for police shootings, you can’t cover those up so easily. Even in the US I suspect that shootings by police have to be meticulously recorded. So in this particular case, I am happy to believe the numbers are accurate.

And on the wider subject I spent a fair amount of time working in the US over a period of 5 years. I wasn’t there ling term but in total the trips amounted to over 500 days in country. The Americans I met whilst working and during my leisure time were all pretty reasonable. I never saw any behaviour that I thought was untoward.

I fully accept that there is a rotten element, as there is in most countries and some of those join the Police (just like in the UK) and I’m sure the police try to cover it up (just like in the UK) but please don’t generalise and say the whole country is like that - for the large majority it isn’t.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
Yeah, but these stats are for police shootings, you can’t cover those up so easily. Even in the US I suspect that shootings by police have to be meticulously recorded. So in this particular case, I am happy to believe the numbers are accurate.
Yes, but what I’m saying is that if they’ve shot an innocent person, for self preservation they might trump up some charges to justify the shooting.
We know this happens only due to the ones caught on camera. We have no idea how often this happens where there is no video footage.

As others said above, your experiences in America may vary greatly depending on Ethnicity, & also on exactly where in the US you are travelling in.

Found some stats for you above anyway. I’m sure there are stats for other years via that FBI website as well if you want to check them :)
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Yes, but what I’m saying is that if they’ve shot an innocent person, for self preservation they might trump up some charges to justify the shooting.
We know this happens only due to the ones caught on camera. We have no idea how often this happens where there is no video footage.

As others said above, your experiences in America may vary greatly depending on Ethnicity, & also on exactly where in the US you are travelling in.

Found some stats for you above anyway. I’m sure there are stats for other years via that FBI website as well if you want to check them :)
But the data doesn't say why the shootings occurred just that they occurred.

And this is the very reason why I said this is a one sided set of stats - number of shootings and proportion of population - you need more information than that to draw any tangible conclusions.

As you say, some would be 'why were they shot', 'were they carrying weapons', 'what were they doing', 'did they follow Police instructions'.

I've no doubt that some of those are unjustified, some might be down to racism, some might be simply too gung ho, and some might just be scared. The problem in the US is that every police office is issued with a firearm but I doubt there is much psychological testing to determine if each officer can use it responsibly.

We have to remember that in the US practically anyone can carry a firearm, so every interaction with criminal activity has a potential for that police officer to end up wounded or dead, not a nice workplace, I can imagine that many are scared and nervous.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
Last edited:

hippo99

Distinguished Member
^ Yes I can agree with most of that.

This is actually the stat that I think stands out though rather than the ‘number of deaths’ headline figure
F950D2FA-F1CE-4E33-B1C7-9EF029162050.jpeg

*Why are people being killed at all if they’re not attacking (whether Black or White)?
*Why the (relative) high skew for Blacks?

Can’t find the data behind it though to see the actual numbers of people killed. It says supplementary homicide data from FBI, but can’t see anything re: police killings, so will be on that website somewhere. Probably somewhere here
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Samsung HW-Q950T Soundbar Review, Filmmaker Mode, Disney+ $30 for Mulan, AV news and more

Latest News

Tron 3 lands star and director for Disney
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Kef announces KW1 Wireless Subwoofer Adapter
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 9th August 2020
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Linn announces Majik DSM digital streamer upgrade
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Sony announces WH-1000XM4 noise cancelling headphones
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Top Bottom