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urgent question regarding 36" TVs - opinions wanted!

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by jones721, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. jones721

    jones721
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    This is probably a question asked many times, but I would like to hear people's views on

    (i) Philips 36PW9607
    (ii) Sony KV-36FS76
    (iii)Toshiba 36ZP38

    We purchased the 36" Philips in May and alternate between thinking "What a wonderful picture " to "What an awful picture". At times we have shimmmering/haloing around people's heads and moving objects which really spoils the enjoyment of the TV. After spending a lot of money on Monster scarts/compatible Philips video and Sky+ we were told by the Sky engineer that this is a common problem on the Philips Pixel Plus models. I wrote to Philips and the retailer (on-line company- don't know whether I am allowed to mention them by name?). Had a simple reply from Philips (turn the Active Control button on (already on!!) but then got a phone call from the retailer. Told them I had done some research on the TV and knew there was a problem with Pixel Plus. Had this instant response from them. . .

    "As long as the TV is as new they will send a courier to pick it up and we can choose a different TV" !!!!!!!!!!!!


    Hadn't even asked for a refund - just for advice as to how to fix the problem!! Then I found this forum and discovered how many other people are upset with the Pixel Plus and realise how lucky I am to be offered a replacement without having to fight for it!!

    The on-line retailer have been very reasonable. I would certainly use them again.

    Anyway . . the TV is being picked up next week and we have to choose a new TV. I am interested in the other two models above, probably swaying towards the Sony as I do not like the look of the Toshiba picture frame model. I have to buy something from the same company and they do not stock numerous models.

    We have been into our local Sony Centre and viewed the 36" Sony and liked it very much. I have to admit though that the picture on the Philips (when good) is truly excellent and I did not think the Sony matched up to it. Apart from the pixelisation problem, I have no complaints about Philips. Am I going to be disappointed with the Sony or the Toshiba? Any feedback would be gratefully received - especially from someone who has knowledge of the Philips model and then changed to Sony or Toshiba. Haven't got long to make up my mind as they pick the old TV up in soon.

    Thank you in advance,

    Tracey

    PS Have the Sony DAVS880 home cinema (am thrilled with it) so another reason for choosing the Sony TV and do not have to be too fussy about sound as we will play through the HC. Toshiba is a DD so will be better sound I know.
     
  2. lynx

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    I'd be wary of 36'' crt's - though i stress this is only my personal opinion - as large screens are not without their issues at this size.All of the models you mention will have their supporters as well as their detractors. I quite like the FS76, however i don't know how much money you have spent on it but be aware you can pick up graded units for £799 with a warranty.
     
  3. chilpillphil

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    well my auntie has a panasonic 36" and from argos they payed £2000 for it 6 months ago,

    just got the tv and 3 extra speakers, i feel they were ripped off, but its a nice set :)
     
  4. jones721

    jones721
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    We paid £1359 back in May for the Philips - at the time it was around the £2,000 mark in Argos and not much cheaper in Currys and Comet, etc. The alternatives we are considering (Sony and the Toshiba) are both currently £1299 with the same company. Or the new Philips (Dolby Digital) is another £250 but I don't want to go any higher - plus same Pixel Plus problems??!! Does that help? I have not been offered a refund - only an exchange with no money refunded if I choose a cheaper model - so I have to stick to the same company.
    Tracey
     
  5. lynx

    lynx
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    I'd be inclined to push for a refund, then make a new purchase and pocket the considerable difference.
     
  6. jones721

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    Don't think they would let me do that. I did ask what would happen if we chose a TV cheaper than the original price and was told that we would then be charged a "usage charge" for the old set - ie no refund of the difference!

    I hope it is not the retailer who will lose out as I think it should be sent back to Philips and they bear the loss. Maybe the retailer will not bother with Philips and just offer it for resale as a reconditioned TV?

    Any comments on the Sony or the Toshiba?

    Thank you
    Tracey
     
  7. lynx

    lynx
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    The goods should be of ''satisfactory quality'', clearly they are not meeting your reasonable expectations. Inform the retailer that you are rejecting the set and wish a refund.Gauge their reaction to this before deciding your course of action. In the meantime use the search button to learn from others experiences in a similar situation...there is a wealth of threads to read on this subject.

    Here are a few threads to get you started http://www.avforums.com/forums/sear...=1076187&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
     
  8. eagle

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    I have the Sony, the first that came was Knackered, as the colour bled terribly. I had it exchanged and it seems a lot better. There is a little bit of colour diference in solid balck screens but not to an extent that it is a problem, otherwise its fine. I paid £1150 for mine and £160 for a five year warranty.
    Cheers Lee
     
  9. boyspen

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    hi, I have the Philips 36pw9618,had it for about 5 months now,not found a fault on it yet,wonderful picture etc,the dvd playback is out of this world,and the digital surround is amazing,only not all programes in this though but give it time,I did alot of research before I bought the set spent a age in comet etc finding out everthing and comparing it against the other's then bought it online and saved £580.
    The biggest problem I have found about these sites is no matter what set you get someone on here wil tell you its crap,so my advise to anyone who is thinking of buying a new TV is go and veiw them at the big shops find one YOU like then buy it online and now the important bit,plug it in AND enjoy it,stop looking for faults and reasons to send it back.
    ps on the subject of expensive scarts I improved mine no ends by just making sure the digital box was sending out the signal in rgb and making sure the scart was plugged into the rgb on the TV.
    I am not plugging the Philips just saying whatever you chose enjoy it.
     
  10. chilpillphil

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    i think people who spend £80 or more on SCARTS are completely mad, not that theres anything wrong with that :)
     
  11. jones721

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    Boyspen
    I am glad that you like your Philips TV because we went looking today at the alternatives and the picures are just not as sharp on the Toshiba or the Sony. I love the Philips 9618 - the same as yours - and it is interesting to hear from someone who is pleased with it. Don't you have a shimmering/haloing effect when things move? Some of the time, all of the time, none of the time?? Our 9607 is very unpredictable, sometimes the picture is fantastic and then on the next programme it is awful. I had already written to the retailer and Philips before I found this newsgroup and the retailer offered me an exchange without me even asking. Then I found this newsgroup and the thread on problems with Pixel PLus and realised that it must be a bigger problem than just my TV.

    I am very confused though. I wonder if I have a rogue Tv or whether it is representative of the 9607? I wonder if Philips recified this pixelisation problem on the new 9618 model? I need to do some more research before I commit to a new TV. I don't want to choose another Philips one and have the same problems but also I don't want to swap brands, have similar problems and not as good a picture!

    So, you are very happy with the 9618 then? Are the two external speakers wireless? Do you watch through Pixel Plus or 100HZ - I get the shimmering through 100hz as well although not as bad as through Pixel Plus. I found that watching DVDs was the worst picture of all - I sometimes get a better picture on the small TV in the bedroom so it is interesting to read your comments.

    I will check the connections like you suggested. We have recently had Sky+ installed and the engineer said everything was fine and we had connected it properly.

    Let me know your views,
    Thanks
    Tracey

    PS
    On the subjuect of scarts, I thought it was our connections that was producing the poor picture and Comet suggested the Monster scarts. We also purchased the Monster cable for the speakers of the Sony DAVs880 home cinema and I think it does improve the sound - but probably not by as much as we paid for the cables!! Having spent that much on the TV and then being so disappointed with the haloing, I was willing to try anything. Wish I had found this newsgroup first though!! But at least I didn't pay £2000 for the TV from Comet or Currys and saved myself £600 that way though!
     
  12. jones721

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    Lynx
    I think I will pay a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau and find out my rights because this particular retailer seems to be quite expensive for other models at the moment. Am I allowed to name them? I originally chose them because they were the cheapest, but I am now stuck for choice as the Philips Dolby Digital is £200 dearer than another retailer - do I want to choose Philips again, that is another debate. I know they price match but whether or not they would on an exchange I don't know. But if I knew my rights and was able to ask for a refund (or a price match) then that would save me a lot of money.
    Tracey
     
  13. boyspen

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    Hello,you say dvd worst picture perhaps depends on what player you have we did have a philps combi but didnt like it not the picture just the controls so now have the sony combi picture brill,yes the 9618 has the wireless rear speakers and they work for me 100% if you do get problems just change the settings from channel 1 to 2 to 3 etc or they can even be wired so no problems .I watch just about all the prog on pixal plus,some prog if you look hard enough do show a very slight shim but my ex is only about 1-2% and it must be remembered that not all prog are modern that is made /filmed recently,you show me an original Beverly Hillbilles that is spot on?
    It has 4 scarts 2 of which are rgb,if you have a ps2 play that on it then go back to the portable,plus it looks great in the corner of the lounge the pan looks are not up to it and the sony needs up dating I know its the picture you watch.
    We had a philips 32" before this one but it was only 50 refresh rate and that did shimmer alot so it went back and I must admit I did say not a philips again then when we went to veiw we saw this ,and now it sits in the lounge certainly has the wow factor about it.
    Its up to you
    good luck
     
  14. jones721

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    Boyspen
    Our DVD/home cinema was bought at the same time as the tv and was £550, so isn't a cheap one. I am 100% pleased with it and the sound (Sony DAVs880). Wouldn't swap that model. That was one of the reasons we were looking at the Sony 36" tv as we were happy with the Sony DVD.
    As for the TV, I did not feel the Sony picture in Currys was as good (sharp) as the Philips (side be side) so despite saying no more Philips, we are veering back towards them again. The 9608 model though only has two scarts, the 9618 and ours has four. WE have just got a PS2 for Christmas. Do you mean that you should use the PS2 on the portable and not the 36"? Not tried it yet on the large screen.
    I don't mind a slight shimmer on some programmes (in fact in Currys, all the 36" seemed to do this to some extent) but not on recent films and DVDs.Cast Away last night had a lot of shimmering (through Sky+), don't know if you watched that? Royle Family on UK Gold has a dreadful picture - but that is to be extected, it is an old recording. I wouldn't mind either if the picture was shimmering if I could turn the Pixel Plus off and that would help - I could quite happily do that - but as I said doesn't help on our current one. Guess we may have had a dud!
    Tracey
     
  15. uczmeg

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    I have a Philips 36PW9607. It has a great picture.

    Would I buy it again? No. But then I wouldn't buy any 36" CRT now. There seem to be issues with all of them. The geometry really annoys me on my 9607 and have had them take it away several times. However it is within the manufacturers spec so they will do sod all.

    I've bought a projector now, so it's only used for TV watching and I can live with the issues for that.

    I do hate Pixel Plus though, well the version in this model at least. I found I got a MUCH better picture if I turn it off use 100Hz and turn the sharpness down to a low level.

    It's also worth using something like Digital Video Essentials, Avia or even the THX test stuff on a DVD like Star Wars Episode one to get the colours and contrast right. Makes a hell of a difference.

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  16. blindlemon

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    Jones721,

    The shimmering you see on Pixel Plus is a "feature" - and is even acknowleged by Philips :eek: It's caused by failures in the movement processing algorithms of Pixel Plus and Natural Motion and cannot be removed. Apparently, the latest version of Pixel Plus is better than the original version - but still not perfect.

    See my post in this thread for my views on Pixel Plus vs. Acuity.
     
  17. jones721

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    boyspen,
    Can you confirm what you mean by
    "making sure the digital box was sending out the signal in rgb and making sure the scart was plugged into the rgb on the TV."?
    Just asked Simon to check that and he didn't quite understand what you meant. Is the digital box Sky+?
    Watching Back to the Future at the moment and the picture on PP, double lines and 100hz are all awful. Yes it's an old film, but haloing and shimmering bad on them all.

    Marc,
    Thanks for your reply. Can I ask what you mean by "geometry"? The word crops up a lot on this forum but I don't know what it means! AS I said above, picture bad on all three settings, but I will try and turn the sharpness down and see if that makes a difference. Can you also explain what you mean by Digital Video Essentials . . . Are they packages you can buy? Thanks.

    Tracey
     
  18. uczmeg

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    Hi,

    Not sure how to describe geometry properly but it is basically is you picture straight! Imagine if you put a gird of lines on the screen. Are all the horizontal lines really horizontal and the vertical all vertical? Some of my horizontal ones are a bit bendy!

    Digital Video Essentials is basically a DVD that lets you caliberate your picture and sound. It has various test patterns and sounds to let you optimise the performance of your system.

    A lot of it is a but too deep, but the tools to get your contrast, brightness and colour right are very useful.

    Have a look at www.play.com they have it for £15 delivered.

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  19. jones721

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    blindlemon,

    Thanks for your information and advice. Will look at your thread. Thought there must be a problem when the retailer offered to take the TV back without even being asked to! When you say the latest version of PP is better, do you mean the 36PW9618 because (along with the Sony and Tosh) this is the model we are looking at now? Is this an improved version or has similar problems?

    Thank you everyone for your advice. Wish I had found this before originally making my purchase!!

    Tracey
     
  20. jones721

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    uczmeg

    Is my picture straight?? No it is not. It was the first thing my brother-in-law noticed at Christmas. It slopes down to the right. Can see this on Teletext and also Who wants to be a Millionaire. However, I can cope with this (had the TV for 6 months before hepointed it out to me last week!) but it is the shimmering I cannot cope with.
    Depending on which replacement TV we go for, I will maybe order the thing you recommended for picture contrast, etc.
    Tracey
     
  21. uczmeg

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    Drives me nuts! Wife wonders what I'm moaning about.

    Annoys me most in football and tennis when you can see the lines and in movies that are 2.35:1 as the lower black bar bends.

    But now all movie watching is on the projector and that is lovely!

    Never had any shimmering outside of Pixel Plus though.

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  22. blindlemon

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    I think all the current P+ model have the new version - if it has a "Movie Plus" mode, then yes, definitely.

    However, you may still see some haloes around objects - particularly people walking or running past trees or railings. AFAIK the new version is better - but not perfect.
     
  23. boyspen

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    jones 721,re the rgb I have the freeveiw box and in the settings it gives you the option to send out the picture in rgb the 9618 has 4 rear scarts 2 of which are rgb so I make sure the box is set to send out rgb and just plug the other end of the scart into 1 of the 2 rgb scarts on the back of the set,I do notice though that if its a very bad night weather wise then sometimes the picture quality can be affected,also i did read on a forum somewhere that improvement can also be found by the distance you actualy sit from the set ie the bigger the set the further back, I must admit that I normaly sit about 10 or 12 feet away and for me the picture is great but then my wife sits about 5 or 6 and she also says its great ,but worth a try.
    As for the ps2 no I dont mean use the portable I mean when you have put it on the big screen you wont want to go back to the small set.
     
  24. jones721

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    boyspen,
    Yes, I have also found that the further back you sit from the screen the better. I probably sit about 10 to 12 feet away too. Very grainy close up.
    With the Playstation, the children tried it yesterday and the shimmering is awful. I found it hard to watch (it was Harry Potter) because it hurt my eyes, the fast movement and the shimmering. Didn't seem to bother them though. I think our set must be extra faulty. All the programmes seem worse this week, putting me off Philips again!
    Ours being picked up on Tuesday and then we have to wait until they examine it (only the exterior, I think, to make sure it is as new - they have taken our word for the faults) before we can order another model. Don't know how mcuh they will creidt us and about delivery charges. We paid £1359 and £50 delivery. The Sony is £1299 and the Toshiba is also £1299 but the new Philips is £1559 so that is another £200 which I don't really want to pay. They are dearer than everyone else for the new Philips. The 9308 Philips is £1249 but only has 2 scarts and doesn't look as good as the one (9607) we have got so I don't want to downgrade. Feel like just waiting a few months to see how prices and reviews but won't be able to do that. After all this, they may say, "We are sending you your original TV back"!! Should just have the courage to ask for a refund!
    Tracey
     

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