Upto 3K to spend

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
First of all, Sorry for starting yet another "what should i get thread" but what should i get!!!!

I currently have an optoma hd600x, which i got in Feb 2011. Also have a cheapo optoma 106in screen which I've always had a problem with (picture on the right hand of screen seems to curve).

Anyway, in a month or two I'm going to have £3000 to spend (actually will have £35000 to spend but my life wouldn't be worth living if i said that to the wife).

I was thinking along the lines of 2K on projector and 1k on screen, or 2.5K on projector if a great screen can be got for £500. I've been looking through as many threads as i can over the last few days and the epson EH-TW9000 seems to be very highly regarded.

I don't have a dedicated room for this stuff, current projector is on ceiling in living room. The room is standard living room stuff, white ceiling, fairly light walls etc. OK now to the point of all this rambling

1) What projector would you guys go for in the 2/2.5k price range?
I'm after 1080p full hd, 3D and if possible good enough brightness for the odd daytime gaming session (this will be on very rare occasions).

2)Same question again but for the screen. Cant be fixed frame as the wife would have a second reason to put me under the patio. I'd like to get a tab tensioned if they are within my price range.

So what are your recommendations?
One last thing, probably a stupid question but how much of a difference would i see between what i have now and will potentially have?
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Not that I'm aware of. Think i may have seen a couple while watching ghostbusters 2 but i seem to be quite lucky there.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Sounds to me that the TW9000 with a Draper React II screen would be the ideal combination.

Sorry forgot: what would the diff be between what you have now and teh proposed setup above, HUGE my boy HUGE.:D
 
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FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Sounds to me that the TW9000 with a Draper React II screen would be the ideal combination.

Sorry forgot: what would the diff be between what you have now and teh proposed setup above, HUGE my boy HUGE.:D



Now thats the answer i was hoping for!!!:thumbsup:

What kind of prices do the Draper's go for. Was going through the "Draper ReactII fitted and tested" thread yesterday but got the impression they would be out of my price range.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Depending on size they are around £1500 but you may get a deal on the two together for maybe £3.5k which is a bit above your budget but to be honest with your room the React is a must IMV.

Ideal av (Allan) would be where I would go and see what he can do.
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Again, reading the Draper ReactII fitted and tested thread i noticed he (Allan) seemed to be the guy to go to. I could certainly stretch the budget a little further, just won't tell the missus:devil:

Im going to get a demo arranged soon and see if i can bring my hd600x along to see the difference there and then.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Good idea to take your 600x with you as that will give you an instant a/b.:)
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
RRP is £2,649, but if you want a combined price better if you drop me an email:)

Don't mind if I do:smashin:

Starting to think if I should go all out and get a new sound system as well. Not sure about that one. I currently have a 5 year old Samsung 5:1 system which is pretty good. Really don't know if I'd hear any difference between that and a newer one.
 

ukaudiophile

Active Member
Hello,

I would suggest taking a look at a Sony VPL-HW30. 1080P, 3D, very quiet (though not the smallest projector out there). I recently purchased one to replace my VPL-HW50 and I have been delighted with the picture quality improvement. It's much brighter, the colours look more natural, whilst the black level looks far better than my 50. In 2D the image just seems to have more depth and is smoother than the 50.

If you're used to a DLP projector, you should at least take a look at an SXRD and a DILA to see if their images look more pleasing to you than a DLP.

As far as the screen is concerned, I would personally stick with what you have for the time being, and possibly look at a Beamax in the future when you have a little more money available. I know the Beamax electric screen (M series model 10015) is slightly over budget (the best price I've seen the screen for is about £800) but Beamax screens are very well thought of around here, and one of the company principles, Otto, is a regular on the screen forum. One of their tab tensioned models is on my shopping list as a present to myself for Christmas this year (I hope) but for a given size tab tensioned from Beamax seem to be around twice the price of a regular electric screen, but I have seen the tab tensioned screens in operation, and if you're going much over 6ft wide they do make a difference. It's also possible one of the suppliers on this forum might be able to work you out a package for projector and screen at close to your budget.

I cannot comment on how much better the combo of screen and projector would be over what you have now as I am not familiar with the HD600X, but based on the performance I've seen from Epson 1080P projectors from early last year, I would say this will be a substantial improvement in resolved detail, colour rendition and depth.

I hope this helps, if you have any further questions then please don't hesitate to ask.

Best wishes,

Dave
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
analogueaddict said:
Hello,

I would suggest taking a look at a Sony VPL-HW30. 1080P, 3D, very quiet (though not the smallest projector out there). I recently purchased one to replace my VPL-HW50 and I have been delighted with the picture quality improvement. It's much brighter, the colours look more natural, whilst the black level looks far better than my 50. In 2D the image just seems to have more depth and is smoother than the 50.

If you're used to a DLP projector, you should at least take a look at an SXRD and a DILA to see if their images look more pleasing to you than a DLP.

As far as the screen is concerned, I would personally stick with what you have for the time being, and possibly look at a Beamax in the future when you have a little more money available. I know the Beamax electric screen (M series model 10015) is slightly over budget (the best price I've seen the screen for is about £800) but Beamax screens are very well thought of around here, and one of the company principles, Otto, is a regular on the screen forum. One of their tab tensioned models is on my shopping list as a present to myself for Christmas this year (I hope) but for a given size tab tensioned from Beamax seem to be around twice the price of a regular electric screen, but I have seen the tab tensioned screens in operation, and if you're going much over 6ft wide they do make a difference. It's also possible one of the suppliers on this forum might be able to work you out a package for projector and screen at close to your budget.

I cannot comment on how much better the combo of screen and projector would be over what you have now as I am not familiar with the HD600X, but based on the performance I've seen from Epson 1080P projectors from early last year, I would say this will be a substantial improvement in resolved detail, colour rendition and depth.

I hope this helps, if you have any further questions then please don't hesitate to ask.

Best wishes,

Dave

Dave,

Beamax have gone bust (taking UK dealers/customers money with it). The name, and assets have been bought out by a dutch company. This is to be continued in the same way, but is in a transitional period at the moment. White screens can be ordered from the new owner, or alternatives from Draper, Grandview etc, depending on the requirements.

The problem with a white screen in a standard light room (with or without ambient light), is the blacks will be lightened when there is an element of luminance in the picture due to the reflections in the room. This is why a grey screen with a brighter projector is often suggested as an alternative. The Sony (when set up properly) has a similar luminance as the X30. The Epson has more output.

If a white screen is used in a light room, I would be recommending a calibration as the gamma can be hugely compromised at the top end due to the reflections, causing the crushing of lighter details.
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Dave,

Beamax have gone bust (taking UK dealers/customers money with it). The name, and assets have been bought out by a dutch company. This is to be continued in the same way, but is in a transitional period at the moment. White screens can be ordered from the new owner, or alternatives from Draper, Grandview etc, depending on the requirements.

The problem with a white screen in a standard light room (with or without ambient light), is the blacks will be lightened when there is an element of luminance in the picture due to the reflections in the room. This is why a grey screen with a brighter projector is often suggested as an alternative. The Sony (when set up properly) has a similar luminance as the X30. The Epson has more output.

If a white screen is used in a light room, I would be recommending a calibration as the gamma can be hugely compromised at the top end due to the reflections, causing the crushing of lighter details.

Fight fight fight!!!

Thanks for the input Dave, regarding the screen, I do need to get a new one as the one I currently have has a ripple on the right hand side. Plus I only ever intended it to be a temporary screen anyway (cost £120 in feb 2011).
Also as much as I hate to admit it, I mucked up my measurements when going for screen size and has always been a bit too big for the picture. I won't go into anymore detail but lets just say it looks like a 5 year old has had a go at it with a black paint brush!!!:thumbsup:

I'll certainly take a look at the Sony projector though. When I demo new projectors Im going to see if I can bring mine along and have them playing side by side so I can get a good idea as to how big a jump the picture quality will be.

I'm hoping it's going to be a case of "I need to change my pants" afterwards.
More to the point I need to convince the missus I'm not just p**sing money away for the sake of it.
 

Member 518284

Distinguished Member
if you take some good advice you won`t be p*ssing money away

at this present time in an ambient lit room the Epson 9000 with ReActll are a great combination and for the money I don`t think can be beaten, my opinion only of course.

getting the best deal will be achieved by doing some homework ;)

Allan @ Ideal AV
 

ukaudiophile

Active Member
Hello,

I hadn't heard about the Beamax debacle, thanks to Ricky for mentioning this. I guess I'll have to revise my shopping list as the current situation with Beamax / HCM sounds far from satisfactory. I'd have had more confidence if HCM had gone ahead and honoured all the orders which had been paid for by consumers and dealers alike.

The light coloured room with a projector is an issue. In the very early days of owning a projector (almost 20 years ago now) I tried to use a light coloured room. I watched 1 film in the room, then redecorated the next weekend! Now I am fortunate in that I have a cave to watch films in with 100% light control, this is obviously a different situation here where the projection room has to double up as a living room, but I am sure Ricky would agree that a small amount spent on light control will yield rewards far beyond expenditure on the screen, projector or further calibration. As critical as calibration is to a reference projector installation, I would say a pound spent on light control is probably worth 3 or 4 spent on the screen or calibration. If the SO of the household would allow the use of full blackout blinds then that would certainly help hugely, though the issue of light bouncing off surrounding surfaces would still compromise the contrast and colour to a degree, a grey screen surface would help, as long as you were happy with the light level at the screen.

There is a great capsule guide here :-

Understanding Projector Screens: Screen Gain, Ambient Light and Projector Output

As you will know what the conditions are when using your projector, you will know where you need to be on the brightness scale, from 16fl in a darkened room, to 50fl for an image in normal ambient light.

On the issue of light output, then calculating what you need and having some idea before shopping is obviously desirable, but also remember that just looking for the brightest projector with the most contrast is not necessarily the way to go, using those parameters to judge a projector is a very simplistic benchmark which is great for the average consumer and the Saturday boy employee of a retailer, a bit like pushing a digital camera as being better because it has more megapixels or a bigger zoom (like someone hawking such wares on QVC) without considering optics quality, the size of the CCD and the relationship between the maximum resolution of the optical assembly and the size of the CCD to arrive at the maximum resolution a given camera can actually resolve. Using contrast figures and light output to judge a projector alone is in the same league.

With or without blackout blinds, the light decor will invariably compromise the projectors performance, but even then, I would certainly investigate the image quality available from the HW30 with a grey screen, and I would look at possibly higher gain white screens which reflect along a narrow axis, which would reduce the effect of off axis light reducing the contrast of the image.

I hope this is helpful, and if I can be of any further assistance then please don't hesitate to ask.

Best wishes,

Dave
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
A great shame about the Beamax debacle...Otto was very good to me back in the day: I bought my 112" screen from them and needed a small part after I'd broken the end tension fitting, which he sent me 2 of free of charge. Typical that I was thinking about trying to sell mine and I guess no one will want to pay much for one as they'll panic about spares. :rolleyes:

I also wanted to add that 16fL is a pretty high figure to aim for unless the screen is quite small, not even allowing for lamp dimming: When I bought my lux meter a few years ago I discovered that I'd been watching at 6fL. :eek: When I recalibrated my setup I went to 11-12fL (depending on what figure I took for screen gain) and found it very bright compared to what I was used to. I understand that many 3D setups barely manage more than 3-4fL with the glasses on too. However fL is a personal choice...though I very much doubt you'll find an AV model capable of 50fL on anything like a decent sized screen for 'ambient light viewing'.

Also IMHO, it's not so much the use of black out blinds/curtains as once it's dark outside most curtains would block any remaining light unless you have a street light outside the window or similar. The colour of the walls is the thing that effects the image most and probably the trickiest thing to deal with if it's a living room. It was something I wasn't prepared to compromise the room with (hence my experiments with the 'bat tent') as I wanted a light and airy living room, which is the worst thing to have with a matt white screen. :facepalm: I don't know if any of these new screens like the Draper React II really work as well as I'd hope (given the cost) but the fact that it seems that you have to use an LCD projector with one would put me off for a start (I've had dust blobs and seen enough poor uniformity LCD projectors to put me off for life ;) ).

Back to the OP, as the room is less than ideal, then IMHO don't expect huge improvements over what you have now unless you change the screen type. Even then have a good demo in a similar room (I believe both Kalibrate and IdealAV have light coloured demo rooms). Make sure you take you exisiting projector as IMHO it's the only way to see if it is really worth the upgrade: You may find that keeping your projector and just changing the screen gives you a suitable improvement for example. ;)
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
if you take some good advice you won`t be p*ssing money away

at this present time in an ambient lit room the Epson 9000 with ReActll are a great combination and for the money I don`t think can be beaten, my opinion only of course.

getting the best deal will be achieved by doing some homework ;)

Allan @ Ideal AV


Thanks for the input allan:thumbsup:

Don't get me wrong, I know I won't be throwing money away, but for the "uninitiated" it's a different story. Her royal majesty still thinks our 5 year old Samsung LCD is still top of the range ultra high tech stuff, so getting her to realise getting a new projector after a year and a half is a good investment will be difficult. I'm not saying whether I get it or not depends on her say so, it will just save a lot of grief if she's on board.

I think the trick will be to bring her along to any demoing along with a couple of her favourite films. Then hope there is a good difference in quality!!
 

Member 518284

Distinguished Member
I think the trick will be to bring her along to any demoing along with a couple of her favourite films. Then hope there is a good difference in quality!!

that honestly usually does it, once they/you see the differences between a normal white screen surface and ReActll in a light bright reflective room its sort of says it all really.

Allan :smashin:
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Back to the OP, as the room is less than ideal, then IMHO don't expect huge improvements over what you have now unless you change the screen type. Even then have a good demo in a similar room (I believe both Kalibrate and IdealAV have light coloured demo rooms). Make sure you take you exisiting projector as IMHO it's the only way to see if it is really worth the upgrade: You may find that keeping your projector and just changing the screen gives you a suitable improvement for example. ;)

To be honest i had been thinking about would having a new screen make all the difference. In one respect that would be good as it would save me money, but the flip side is i really want a new projector!!

More to the point though, as we all know, the hd600x is a budget/entry level projector. I'm not thinking about having something just for now, I'm also thinking about the future. Hopefully in a couple of years i'll be moving house, and that house will be having a dedicated room! So it won't be done on the cheap.
 

Jenz

Well-known Member
There's a lot of good advice here Andy and demo, demo, demo is the key. BUT that demo must be in conditions with similar attributes to your own room. No good seeing a great demo of kit in a Batcave if you can't get anywhere near that at home. Which brings me to my post....

We've gone slightly off topic around your fundamental challenge which is the room that this setup has to live in.

If you take a look at my personal journey:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1637275-epson-9000-vs-jvc-x30-3d.html

You'll see my own story has similar challenges, albeit I perhaps had a slightly larger budget (another £1k).

Based on my own research I would steer you down the Epson 9000/Draper REACT2 route because of your room considerations. Regards Neil.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Of course there is the temptation to buy new hardware as well. It's more interesting than just buying a new screen too. ;) If you're thinking long term and may have a proper dedicated room then you have to think about whether you would plan to move the 'new' screen when you move house. There wouldn't be so much point in having a screen like the ReActII in a dedicated room (unless you decorate it in light colours of course :suicide:). However it would mean that in the meantime using a white screen would give you sub optimal image quality in your existing room. Tough call.

What you really need is a crystal ball. :D It's hard to know where you'll be in a few years time... if you'd asked me 3 years ago where I think my AV setup would be and I doubt I would have said that I'd be getting rid of my projector, but things change and your priorities alter. In other words, just buy for what you need now IMHO and worry about if you move later on.
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Of course there is the temptation to buy new hardware as well. It's more interesting than just buying a new screen too. ;) If you're thinking long term and may have a proper dedicated room then you have to think about whether you would plan to move the 'new' screen when you move house. There wouldn't be so much point in having a screen like the ReActII in a dedicated room (unless you decorate it in light colours of course :suicide:). However it would mean that in the meantime using a white screen would give you sub optimal image quality in your existing room. Tough call.

What you really need is a crystal ball. :D It's hard to know where you'll be in a few years time... if you'd asked me 3 years ago where I think my AV setup would be and I doubt I would have said that I'd be getting rid of my projector, but things change and your priorities alter. In other words, just buy for what you need now IMHO and worry about if you move later on.

Thinking about it, moving in around 3 years would be ideal, I'd be quite happy getting a new screen then, plus there would be more advanced projectors on the market (I hope), so it would be time to get a new setup again:clap:.

May definitly need a new one now anyway as today my one has suddenly decided to stop showing any picture. Have tried different hdmi leads, different ways of sending the signal but all I'm getting is a blank screen with the egg timer picture. It's the same whether I try the ps3, Xbox or virgin box. Very odd!
 
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KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
You've been shaking it trying to break it haven't you? ;):D Any excuse to buy a new one eh.:D Sounds like some kind of issue with the HDMI board if you are getting an image of the egg timer (internally generated by the PJ Id guess) and if you can get the PJ's menu on screen maybe? Try using the other HDMI port if it has one...oh no you want to buy a new one, don't try that. ;):D

Actually joking aside it's a shame if it doesn't work as it would make a good reference during demos to take it along. This way you really see how much better a new model would (or wouldn't) be.
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Yep, I can get the pj's menu up as well but that's my lot. I just find it very odd that I had the Xbox on, turned it off so I could whack a bluray in the ps3, and nothing!!:facepalm:

As for trying another hdmi port, this is the hd600x we are talking about! If it were a food it would be the KFC bargain bucket:devil:, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't even have one hdmi port!!

I'll try again in a bit, but it's going to be a pain in the backside if it doesn't play nice as I can't get anything new for a couple of months.

I'll also be devestated:thumbsup:
 

FlaccidSnake

Active Member
Well just had another go, Good news, bad news and slightly odd news!

Its not the pj, which i suppose is good news!

Its the bloody 10m hdmi cable!! bad news as its going around the room somewhere below the carpet.

And the odd news is..... A few weeks ago my neet 3 way hdmi splitter decided to stop working, tried it again today with the short hdmi cable once i go the bluray player up and running. Now as soon as i used the neet, the player kept turing itself off, doesn't matter whether i used ports 1,2 or 3. Put the hdmi lead straight back into player directly and all fine.

Im starting to think i should just leave everything as it is until i get new screen and pj.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Beamax have gone bust (taking UK dealers/customers money with it). The name, and assets have been bought out by a dutch company. This is to be continued in the same way, but is in a transitional period at the moment. White screens can be ordered from the new owner, or alternatives from Draper, Grandview etc, depending on the requirements.

I know this is off topic but I felt it needed to be mentioned.

The Company who have taken over Beamax now seem to be back up and running. It's taken them a little while and although it's been very difficult for many dealers and customers out there, it seems as though the new owners are moving forward in the right direction.

I know we've have difficulties with a few screen which have taken over 9 weeks to resolve, but I'm happy to say that the new owners have stepped up finally and done the right thing for us.

I hope this is the case for other dealers out there who have persevered with them.

Regards, Shane.
 

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