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Upscaling & Colour Decoding DVD player to suit H78 DC3?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by dealmaker, Jul 30, 2005.

  1. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    Guys,

    Looking to buy an Otoma H78 DC3 and at the same time I will upgrade my current Arcam DV27A DVD player to a model with HDMI/DVI output!

    I've read on other frums that the Optomas colour decoding isn't great which is why it's better to use the Digital input.

    I've also read it's better to buy an "upscaling" projector to run the PJ at 720p ??

    So am I best advised to get say an Arcam DV29 with HDMI otput (but I'm not sure about "upscaling") OR something like a Denon DVD-3910 (or A1-XV) which have video output upscaling????

    Thanks
     
  2. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Dealmaker

    The Denon players dont have the control or range of adjustments required to fully exploit the H78.

    The up-scaling on board these DVD players may be marginally better than the up-scaling on board the H78 - though I wouldn't expect a night and day performance difference; you need to look elsewhere if you want better scaling and deinterlacing.

    Why not have your FMJ DV27 modified to Output a Serial Digital (SDI) signal and transcode and optimise the SDI signal in a Video Processor with a Digital Output (DVI or HDMI) - the Lumagen VisionHDP is ideal and with 11 point grey scale adjustment you can dial in near perfect colour adjustment to the H78.

    Keep in mind too the Video processor will enhance all of your video sources - not just the DVD playback.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  3. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    Joe,

    Thanks for that - I will only watch DVD's on the PJ so I didnt really want to go to the trouble/expense of an external scaler and having to modify my DVD player.

    I just want the very best "plug and play" option out there?

    If the upscaling on the Optoma is OK then should I go with my original choice of an Arcam DV29????
     
  4. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello dealmaker

    You've not seen an SDI modified FMJ player via a Lumagen VisionHDP then!!! any hassles and cost implications tend to disappear at that point.

    No matter if you have one or ten sources if you want to optimise your viewing an external processor is your best option.

    I'd retain the FMJ-DV27 and use its interlaced YUV analogue outputs into a video processor ahead of a straight 'like for like' swap to the FMJ DV29.

    If your keen on a new player and not swayed by the Video Processor concept then for me the FMJ-DV29 gets the thumbs up over the other models your considering.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  5. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    Joe,

    Thanks - something to consider - couple of questions if I may:

    1) Whats the ball park cost of the SDI mod? and the Lumagen scaler? (upgrading to a DV29 is going to cost me circa £1k)

    2) Is it difficult to set up?

    3) Does it need lots of tweaking and is it easy to switch on/off - thinking of the kids and the wife watching DVD's while I'm away?

    Thanks
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Dealmaker: You have an excellent DVD player with great analogue outputs. If you use that to a Lumagen you can get the scaler to do an auto cal on its component input. That means the scaler looks at the levels of the signals it's sampling and calibrates the analogue to digital convertors for maximum accuracy wth regards to gamma and greyscale. There are always differences between sources but the Lumagen can overcome this at the front end.

    Then you have the extremely accurate colour decoding adjustments in the scaler to take care of overall colour/hue, red colour and hue and green colour and hue. The scaler will even disable to red blue channels when you do green adjustment and the blue and green channels when you do red adjustment. Ths is more accurate than using filters supplied with test discs.....then, if you really want to get it correct you can get someone like me to use their 11 point RGB gamma adjustment to get the greyscale tracking bang on......It doesn't get more accurate than this. If what you want is the most accurate colour decoding and greyscale to an H78 then I'd forget the upscaling DVD and spend the dosh on a Lumagen.....of course you should be aware I am the distributor for said products....but that doesn't alter the fact it's still the most accurate solution for you.

    Gordon
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Dealmaker: Vision DVI is about to change price back to near it's pre promo price...£795
    HDP will be £1295
    SDI input board will be £200

    SDI modding a Player is around £325 for an Arcam.....however if you get a DV29 then just use it's HDMI output set to 480I/576I YUV 4:2:2......no need for SDI mods on that player. SDI would just be to get digital out of your DV27.

    All video processors require care and attention to set up. Some dealers who supply these products will pre-configure most of the critical parts for you. Once set up the Lumagens are pretty much seamless in operation. I never actually turn mine off. No fans, limited power usage, doesn't get hot. The only use for the remote is to change inputs and to change aspect ratio.

    Hope this is of use,

    Gordon
     
  8. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello dealmaker

    As Gordon says the SDI mod is not crucial in your case as the Interlaced YUV outputs from the FMJ-DV27 are very good.

    Adding a VisionDVI or VisionHDP (including a professional installation/calibration) need not be monstrously expensive - especially if you talk to a dealer who can handle the whole supply chain!!!

    In our house the only time anyone (other than me) knows there's a Lumagen VisionDVI attached to our 'TV' is if I have to nick it away to try something on another display or maybe implement a Firmware update - otherwise its a wee black box that sits in the AV rack doing nothing; the remotes not even in the TV room.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  9. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    WOW - lots of info there!

    So if I'm getting this right - I mod my DV27 for circa £325 plus cost of board (£200) = £525 for the total mod.

    Then £795 for the Vision DVI and/or £1295 for th "HDP" ?? = £2090

    Therefore £2090 + £525 = £2615 for the total package??

    Plus whatever it costs to get the whole lot set up and calibrated? (anyone in the North East doing this?)

    I got it right?
     
  10. dealmaker

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    Joe,

    Thanks - we posted at the same time so you have answered some of my questions.

    I don't need to mod the DV27? and I buy EITHER the Vision DVI, OR the Vision HDP? - Whats the difference? and will they both output DVI/HDMI to the H78?

    My question on set up and calibration stands - whats that going to cost?
     
  11. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello dealmaker

    Gordon has a good description of the differences across the Vision range on his web site - see http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/article3.html

    Basically the VisionDVI is good and the HDP is better :)

    Both Lumagen units will output a Digital Video signal via a DVI connector and the H78 is DVI too so you'll require a decent DVI to DVI cable.

    I'll PM you pricing - the 'Rule 7' Police are watching so no 'in post' pricing allowed.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  12. sjb

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    Joe / Gordon,

    Would it still be worth trying 3910 - Lumagen - H78.

    With this setup, would I be making best use of the Lumagen or, would I be better using the 3910 elsewhere, replacing it with a player better suited to the Lumagen/H78.

    As an aside, if it was your money, what would be your preferred player for, say, 1K or, 2K.

    Best Regards,

    Stan.
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You could have the 3910 modded to SDI out or you would use the component outputs.....both work well with Lumagens. However I'd sell it and get a DV79 from Arcam(wot I use) or if you want better quality sound a DV29. I use the HDMI out of the ARCAM configured for 4:2:2 digital interlaced compnent output to the scaler. The 3910 can't do this.

    Gordon
     
  14. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello sjb

    When your on the selling end of some of this kit you tend to get disheartened by some units that should be very good but constantly let you down.

    For me the DVD-3910 is such a double edged sword - good specs spoiled by poor reliability, frustrating firmware, no Interlaced output via DVI or HDMI (unless new firmware has sorted that one out) and a Deinterlacer that fails on a fair few test discs.

    That said a fair few folk have obviously purchased the DVD-3910 and are more than happy with it and haven't seen the reliability issues other have suffered.

    The Denon may be best into a Lumagen on Interlaced YUV and if you want an all Digital signal path then as Gordon suggests the Arcam DV79 works very well.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  15. sjb

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    Thanks Gordon / Joe for the replies.

    The main reason I went with the 3910 - the two digital outputs - HDMI for the Pioneer plasma and DVI for the projector.

    This was before I really knew much about the various signal splitters available.

    I think I'll need to look into the DV79 etc...

    Best Regards,

    Stan.
     
  16. dealmaker

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    Gordon/Joe,

    Assuming I buy the Lumagen HDP to connect to the H78DC3 - Is it stiill worth me considering upgrading the DV27A to a DV29 so that I get a true digital output from the DVD player ? - or would that be wasted money in the scheme of things?
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  18. Joe Fernand

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    I'm with Gordon

    There's not enough of a difference between the Analogue output from the FMJ DV27 and the Digital Output from the FMJ DV29 to warrant the extra expense.

    I'm guessing too it wont be too long before Arcam have a High Definition disc spinner (I wonder will they go Blu-ray or HD DVD?) - that'll be the time for a change in 'transport'!

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  19. gizlaroc

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    Dealmaker, I think the best thing to do here is get a Lumagen in your system, using the comonent outputs->Lumagen->PJ will give far better results than a DV29 straight in.

    You can then upgrade your player to SDI at a later date, or you could just replace it with something like the Philips 963, a superb sdi DVD player and around £500, it also sounds good with films, but not so good with CD as the Arcam.
    But it may be cheaper to sell the DV27, buy an sdi philips and a proper cd transport. I was toying with a DV29 sdi to replace my Philips dvd and Meridian 500MKII cd transport (which cost £500 used) but the DV29 just wasn't good enough on cd replay to go ahead with the move, so I still have two boxes for films and cd.

    What I am trying to say is this, don't waste money getting a DV29, the big improvement will happen by adding a Lumagen into the chain, you can then mod your player to get the very best, or replace it with another SDI player.
     
  20. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    Great advice - thanks guys!!!

    Lumagen it is! - Will look to upgrade the player at a later date.
     

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