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Upscaling/Aspect Ratios

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by invisibleman, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. invisibleman

    invisibleman
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    Could anyone explain the effects of using a dvd player capable of upscaling to 720p/1080i on apsect ratios?

    Example, when displaying a 16*9 dvd in 480p, the image nicely fills the entire screen. However, when upscaling to 720p or 1080i, the aspect ratio is changed and the picture does not fill the screen. I was under the impression aspect ration was independent of resolution?...
     
  2. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    It depends on the mode the display is in - if it's in a 'pixel to pixel' or 'native' mode for example, then anything greater than the native resolution will extend beyond the display boundaries. If it's in something like 'wide', 'full' ior '16:9' then it should downscale the image to fit.

    Gary.
     
  3. invisibleman

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    Thanks for the feedback so far, guys. Here's a little more information, as the problem still exists, but I've been able to track down the apparent 'source' of the problem.

    I'm using Panasonic AE700U projector. HDTV is via Adelphia Cable Box -> component input. DVD is via LG DVD player, model LGDVB418 -> HDMI input into projector.

    When I display a DVD in 480p, the image is displayed properly. However, when I upscale a DVD to 720p or 1080i, the image is distorted. I'm not sure the best way to explain this, but I'll give it a try. When I upscale, it's as if someone moved my projector to the left, so there's a veritical bar on the right hand side of my screen [ie - the image is no longer fitting the entire screen]. If I move back to 480p, the image is once again fine. This can be re-created without fail.

    Here's what I've done so far to troubleshoot.
    1) Verified DVD player settings are for 16*9 aspect ratio
    2) Verified aspect ratio of projector is properly set.

    It's important to note the AE700U will not allow you to change the aspect ratio of 720p/1080i signals, so I cannot imagine this being a projector issue. This is further exemplified by the fact that 720p HDTV signals display fine.

    I'm still stuck on this one. A colleague has a different model HDMI DVD player, which I plan to test, but I cannot imagine what the issue is.
     
  4. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Are there any frequency or image positioning adjustments?

    I had a similar issue with the component input on the H77 and that was merely a case of sliding the image to the left to fit the image to the panel.

    Gary.
     
  5. invisibleman

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    Gary - curious about something. In the issue you described, when you had to adjust your image, was it because the image was off the screen on one side, and you had to adjust to correct that?

    the left side of my image remains intact, it's just like someone chopped off about 1.5 inches of the right side of my image. I'd imagine adjusting the horizontal shift wouldn't solve the issue, because then the left side of the image would be messed up.
     
  6. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Yes it was off to the side, like it had slid across a few percent but remained in correct aspect ratio.

    Can you post a pic so we can all see exactly what you're seeing?

    Gary.
     
  7. invisibleman

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    Gary - Here are the pics, one taken in 480p, one taken in 720p. Today, I even setup a new DVD player, the Toshiba SDV592, setup via HDMI. The same problem occured. I have attached two pics [480p and 720p]. I was limited to 120kb file size, so these pics are not the best, but they still clearly illustrate the problem.

    On the 480p pic, the black is the outer limit of my screen [ie not the white portion where the image is displayed]. When you view the 720p pic, you can clearly see the 'black bar' before the outer limit of the screen. This is what I mean by saying it's like someone moved my image to the left.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I see what you mean, but I really need to see the whole image and screen as I can't see what else is happening with the picture. When you say the image is distorted, is the image no longer in it's correct aspect ratio, and/or is there a part of the image missing on the other side?

    If you were able to leave the left side of the picture where it was, but stretch the image to the right so that it fitted correctly, would that correct the distortion you mention? Seeing the full picture in both 480 and 720 would be very useful.

    Gary.
     
  9. invisibleman

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    Gary - Sorry for being a bit confusing w/ wording. It's like this, the entire image is fine in 480p, but when I upscale, it's as if someone 'chopped' off the right side of the image, but the remainder of the image is in tact. If you can send me an email at invisibleman@aol.com, I will email you the full screen pics in 480p/720p. They are to large for me to attach to my msg. Many thanks for your continued support.
     
  10. Murray

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    Hi my friend,,,Let me tell you all about this one as I know all about it.The other guy on here is trying to help you but he doesnt understand the problem. Im afraid this is something you are going to have to live with. I have tried many projectors and many players to see if I could find one that would work correctly yet they all do exactly the same thing in one way or another. I have been to visit Panasonic who didnt believe what I was telling them until I gave them a personal demo at Panasonic head office in NZ. They even hooked up the new Panasonic DVD player with HDMI and even there own player with there own 700 projector did the same thing on HDMI, truly amazing isnt it. This whole problen has caused me to waste a huge amount of time and money replacing equipment and experimenting to fix something that the manufactures should have sorted. it makes me very wild as I have changed 2 projectors and 2 players in the process and the gear has been always top of the range. Ive now settled with the panasonic 700 with the Denon 3805 and the Denon 3910 player, but the problem still exsists! If you have a really good player you can play the really bad fitting DVD's through component and just the few that fit ok on HDMI/DVI. One way to correct it and I have tried this is to use a scaler which allows you to change the shape of the image to fit the borders of your screen masking. But only a few scalers like the Lumagen will do it correctly. But be warned really there top of the range ones are needed, very complicated to set up correctly and they seem to soften the image a bit. I had one here at home for about 6 weeks but in the end I returned it as it creates other problems which is too long to go into here. Also the price of a good Lumagen is the price of a very good player. I have really noe dropped the issue and live with it. Ive spoken to so many people about it,written to forums all over the world and had to do my own reserch to get the answers. Please dont waste any of your time trying to resolve the problem as Ive done it all for you. I believe when HD DVD's married the correct player will be the very first time you will see the edges of your DVD's fitting the black masking on 720p o 1080i. In short the very best you can do is have the very best player you can afford that has great component and paly most DVD's that way. The top Denon or Pioneer would be the ones to go for. The Denon has a few more things over the Pioneer that I prefer which helps in our problem. I owned the Pioneer 1st and then sold it, yet it still is a very good machine and a bit cheaper. Sorry about bringing bad news my friend I understand how you feel. I felt cheated and robbed of my money, and still do. Remember the 700 has a left/right and hor/vert control in the pic menu that you at least can centre the pic with but I say dont waste too much time play in component. Hope this someone all the way in New Zealand has shed some light on your problem. Its a bummer I know! :devil:
     
  11. Murray

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    Forgot to tell you another thing about this problem of fixed aspect ratios on HDMI/DVI. Try and play a LETTERBOX DVD sorry no go! the remote is locked on the 16.9 panel it just wont work. Again you need to go over to component so you can use the ZOOM control on the aspect ratio button. :devil:
     
  12. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    What is the problem exactly Murray?

    Gary.
     

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