Upgrading speakers to ?

FootHealer

Active Member
Theres a huge difference between 100 db average and 100 db peaking

Didn't say i don't like the metas, i wrote they are not worth the money , realtive to being able to get 6 pairs of q acoustics 3010i (bf price) and still don't pay as much as the metas or for that matter the q acoustics concept 20, 4 pairs if you compare the price of the metas to the concept 20 (899 vs 229 in uk, rest of europe you can't get a pair of conept 20's for whats equal to £229)

High end speakers are often not a great value for money, if you already have high end speakers it would cost an insane amount extra to get only a little better sound (bass just buy 1 or 2 decent subs for around 1000 pounds,euros and you will get more and deeper bass in like 19 out of 20 times), same with a car, if it's already a super car it would cost alot to make it faster, not just different tires but also more power

Sometimes it can be better and cheaper to buy a BMW 320 and tune it instead of buying the expensive BMW M3, if the M3 handles and has power to your liking its fine stock, the 320 tuned could be cheaper and better beacuse you actually could afford the upgrades you prefer,want you can't with a M3 do to being alot more expensive
Okay, I understand now. Anyway, good luck with your purchase. Peace...
 

FootHealer

Active Member
PS. I get the feeling now that you are looking for the impossible, a cheap speaker that sounds like a well balanced expensive speaker. Sure, the Metas are expensive, and they have their own sound and quirks, but to say they are not worth it because you can buy five 3010s for same price is a bit unrealistic. This is just how it is. The law of diminishing return. Good stuff costs big money. If you haven't got big money, or don't want to spend big money, you will need to settle for something with compromises.

Anyway, I don't feel I have anything else to add to this conversation. Good luck again...
 

gasolin

Member
PS. I get the feeling now that you are looking for the impossible, a cheap speaker that sounds like a well balanced expensive speaker. Sure, the Metas are expensive, and they have their own sound and quirks, but to say they are not worth it because you can buy five 3010s for same price is a bit unrealistic. This is just how it is. The law of diminishing return. Good stuff costs big money. If you haven't got big money, or don't want to spend big money, you will need to settle for something with compromises.

Anyway, I don't feel I have anything else to add to this conversation. Good luck again...

Yes, that's because the 3010i's are doing it so good (they have bass despite only having a 4" woofer), at the bf price 1299 vs 1799 makes them a much better value for money also because the bass,mids,highs, soundstage,details are not 4-5 times worse than the metas and the metas dont sound 4-5 times better than the 3010i's, sound quality doens't always goes up 4-5 times if the price goes up 4-5 times, does mean any of them sound bad

Nad 3020 both the original and the i/e models, are fantatic sounding amps for not alot of money, they are better value for money than let's say another classic, audiolab 8000a for alot higher price, the audiolab 8000a might sound a little better than the 3020 but the value for money is better with the nad, thats the same with the q acoustics 3010i vs KEF LS50 Meta
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
If I were a moderator on this tread I would laugh so much, until I simply would close this tread!

You’re clearly joking! Get over it. Move on!!
 

gasolin

Member
no im not
 

gasolin

Member
Not that hard question to answer, to get better sound
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Of course diminishing returns kicks in fast. Epically with amplifiers. Speakers not necessarily.

You need to have synergy-you clearly don’t. Which amplifier do you use now?
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Yes, that's because the 3010i's are doing it so good (they have bass despite only having a 4" woofer), at the bf price 1299 vs 1799 makes them a much better value for money also because the bass,mids,highs, soundstage,details are not 4-5 times worse than the metas and the metas dont sound 4-5 times better than the 3010i's, sound quality doens't always goes up 4-5 times if the price goes up 4-5 times, does mean any of them sound bad

Nad 3020 both the original and the i/e models, are fantatic sounding amps for not alot of money, they are better value for money than let's say another classic, audiolab 8000a for alot higher price, the audiolab 8000a might sound a little better than the 3020 but the value for money is better with the nad, thats the same with the q acoustics 3010i vs KEF LS50 Meta
I can see what you are saying, but it isn't realistic. If that is how you see it, why are you even looking for a new set of speakers? If the 3010 is so good (before you said it was lacking), why spent £1000 on speakers and then slate them as "not worth it" because the 3010s were okay to start with. I really don't get it. I don't believe you are intentionally trying to mess with our heads. But I do feel you are being unrealstic and what you are seeking is unattainable.

Personally, I agree with @Helix Hifi . This thread is dead. There is no way your problem can be resolved unless you change your own point of view. It isn't the hardware. Its how you see it. Rather than wasting money, and time, just learn to love what you have. I really don't know what else to say. If a superb speak like the LS50 Meta is "not worth it" then I don't know what else to say. Maybe some Focal Grande Eutopia EM Evos?
 

gasolin

Member
If you want bang for the buck the kefs might not be the best but for entry level high end they are not expensive, you can do alot worse where an even good amp might not be good enough and have to bee changed to get the best out of the speakers
 

acgingersnaps

Well-known Member
Sometimes it can be better and cheaper to buy a BMW 320 and tune it instead of buying the expensive BMW M3, if the M3 handles and has power to your liking its fine stock, the 320 tuned could be cheaper and better beacuse you actually could afford the upgrades you prefer,want you can't with a M3 do to being alot more expensive
Ha ha ha. Good luck tuning a 320 so that it drives as well, goes as fast and looks as good as an M3. You'll spend more than you will on an M3.
You clearly liked the LS50 sound. Apparently the r3 is a significant leap again, but then again it does cost as much as 8 3010's...
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
If you want bang for the buck the kefs might not be the best but for entry level high end they are not expensive, you can do alot worse where an even good amp might not be good enough and have to bee changed to get the best out of the speakers
The current amplifier cost around 297 pounds. Your old Rotel Tribute amplifier cost much more, and dare I say-sound better.

Why change?
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
amp might not be good enough and have to bee changed to get the best out of the speakers
Could be you need to change your current Class D (📦) amplifier. Yes, I know Class D is switch mode amplifier. Less heat wasted, more current to the amplifier.

Still take a look at the 1120, then you’ll see the build quality is much better.

This is not my expertise, so perhaps I should let other forum members reply.

Still, the Rotel transformer. The Rotel wins.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I am at a loss as to where this thread is going. It's not going to get closed as long as members keep replying to it. Six pages now and it's like a carousel with a brick wall in the middle to bang your head against.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
I am at a loss as to where this thread is going. It's not going to get closed as long as members keep replying to it. Six pages now and it's like a carousel with a brick wall in the middle to bang your head against.
Well, no more replies from me then. Am happy to let it go now.
 

[email protected]

Active Member
No but i feel im missing som airiness and details from the highs on the 3010i

I never said the q acoustics 3010i are bright, they are fare from bright, my argons are noticeable brighter but stil in the neutral category and a little thin

Q acopustics has made a concept 30 but they are expensive, in the Kef Ls 50 Meta range Q Acoustics Concept 30 Bookshelf Speakers

Concept 20 are around 470 euros or 402 pounds not at all as cheap as in uk

I wonder why the price in uk compared to europe
I tested 7 pairs this weekend just gone and the 30s were poor for my amp, out of the 7 I tested KEF R3 and BW were by far the best for my setup

Top 3 for me were
BW 706 S2
KeF R3
Wharfdale Lintons
But honestly go listen to some you’ll be shocked at how bad some sound with your amp vs other makes

As I paid for mine and new amp he then showed me a valve amp on the Lintons niceeeeeee
 

TB Rich

Active Member
I tested 7 pairs this weekend …
Unless you have also replaced your ears with an APx555 Audio Precision Analyser, the OP will not be interested in your subjective assessments I’m afraid.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
The reason this tread is getting nowhere...

“No never gonna happen”. “Don’t care if it’s coaxial...”

Then suddenly out of the blue OP buys the LS50, then “apparently” don’t like them. I simply do not understand the logic behind all this.

He frowns upon every advice he gets. Then never considers the amplifier is to blame.
Valves as mentioned above. Might be the right amplifier to chose.

I told him the speakers need long break in to sound the best, and if he suddenly tomorrow says now they are great. Well then so be it.

Anyway I’m out. No more replies.

@gasolin, take care. I mean that. Learn something from @[email protected].
 

gasolin

Member
The current amplifier cost around 297 pounds. Your old Rotel Tribute amplifier cost much more, and dare I say-sound better.

Why change?

It's a good amp but couldn't play bass so good, despite some say it's a good match for B&W, B&W 607 still sounds fare from perfect at there price.

I tried some cheaper amps that made me hear you don't need to spend what the rotel amp cost to get good sound, why im on a hypex class d amp is because the other amps change sound signature when playing loud and being close to the amps max power (if almost as weak a the loxjie a30 i can understand why it doesn't have to much power and for some can change sound signature playing loud).

My hypex based amp has so much power it doesn't get to the level where it's distorting, changing sound signature and i have all the power every normal bookshelf speakers needs for playing bass, bass is above average good from the amp + class d amps is surpose to have good damping factor
 

gasolin

Member
Could be you need to change your current Class D (📦) amplifier. Yes, I know Class D is switch mode amplifier. Less heat wasted, more current to the amplifier.

Still take a look at the 1120, then you’ll see the build quality is much better.

This is not my expertise, so perhaps I should let other forum members reply.

Still, the Rotel transformer. The Rotel wins.

1120 ?
 

gasolin

Member
Someone mentioned long burn in time for kef metas (ears or speakers ?)

I don't think amir as hifi god but it's hard to deny that if a speaker or amp has a flaw he finds it

 

gasolin

Member
I never said i didn't like the metas but when it has high distortion in the bass i wonder why only the asr review metioned it, thats why i don't mention it before.

When theres alot of distortion you got to listen to the speakers to heard if you can hear it and if it's problem for you, i mention it and have read about it so obviously i do get effected by it somehow, people do get so much effected by it they talk about using dual sub with a crossover at 120-150hz

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

I won't lie im on my 3010i's for comparison and i can say they do have more bass at low levels than the metas, is it claner, could be im not shure, don't have the sparkle in the upper midrange and not as much soundstage,depth (still good) but very comfortbale to listen to, no matter how loud, the midrange sounds pleasant, thats one reason why i wanted to upgrade, not to have to soft midrange and more details (of course not to the extend where theres listening fatigue), thge qed silver cable help a little in the midrange compared to canare 4s11
 

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