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Upgrading Speakers Cables

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by Kamin99, Jun 20, 2005.

  1. Kamin99

    Kamin99
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    As I'm Moving house I'm looking into upgrading my speakers and Speakers cables currently I use definitive BP 6 and monster THX certified Cables
    Looking to get at some point the likes of Sonus Faber grand Piano Domus

    My Dilemma is which cable would give my system with a good clarity and good depth of field as well as being reasonably priced
     
  2. Kamin99

    Kamin99
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  3. Knightshade

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    Hi Kamin,
    It's not bad cable. Nor is Atlas Ikor or Apex/Ascent. But i'd take a look at some of the Van Damme cable that everyones talking about at the moment or even the Cat5 option. Certainly nothing wrong with it and when your talking about long runs of cable the cost can mount up. Run a search for CAT5 or Van damme cable. Could very well save you a few quid.
     
  4. Kamin99

    Kamin99
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    thanks for the advice
    i also checked your post and pics of Cat5
    i will read more on that
     
  5. dartagnain

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    although expensive you should try some nordost speaker cables
     
  6. Knightshade

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    Why?
     
  7. marcm09@hotmail

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    dont do the cat 5 cables despite theie claims they are bright sounding and are no way a match for aftermarket cables, I have made them and they were way worse than my kimber 4pr and made the top end very 'harsh'. If budget isnt an issue then you will be pushed hard to beat the Wireworld cables, the polaris would be a good place to start and is there 4th from the top and simply stunning ! I also like audioquest slate, it is biwireable if you need it to be and would be another good option, but in a different league from the wireworld !
     
  8. Knightshade

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    Plenty of other 'detailed' cable out there, Chord Signature, Nordost Valkyrja, Atlas Ikor.
    Cat5 Is just the same only a fraction of the price. All of these will sound terrible on the wrong equipment. If your equipment tends towards the harsh top end then try something else but if you want a fuller more detailed sound then a variation of CAT5 is a good way to go. but hey if it doesn't suit all you've done is wasted a few pounds and some time. If it does work then you've saved a few hundred/thousand.
     
  9. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Kaiman copied from HFC re. speaker cables :

    CSA Copper – Length of cable.

    Its very easy to rig up large CSA of copper for pennies, ie T+E, CAT5 and very cheap bargain speaker cable, I had a chat last week with a studio cable dealer when ordering some XLR plugs, I asked him his views on speaker cable. And when I told him I was an audiophile making my own cables we got chatting about ICs & speaker cable, now for a guy selling cables you would expect the most flowery of prose etc etc, but he was having none of it, on speaker cable he said :

    Go for some fat cross sectional copper if you have a tough load or run is over 10m, when asked what this entailed and for home use he said 2.5mm – 4.0mm squared CSA copper was fine. Here are the speaker cables he sells :

    http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakercable.htm

    http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakerflex250.htm

    10m of 2 x 2.5mm2 @ £12.90 that is £1.29 a metre – compared to £1.99 for the Van Damme stuff I use, a very large saving.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakerflex400.htm

    The price for 2 x 4mm2 - £1.95 a metre, that is half the price of Van Damme from Maplins. Now if that does not put into context £10m cable from a hifi dealers (never mind the £450 you paid) then nothing will.

    More interestingly check out the table for upping CSA of copper for run lengths, thus saving money, OK table is for studio applications but exact same theory in “audiophile” audio cabling :

    [​IMG]

    Will copy this speaker info into the miser guide to hifi, anyone wanting cheap, estoric speaker cabling (that’s used in live event concerts & studio) ie the sound we all aim to achieve in audiophilia then they know where to look.
     
  10. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Sounds like you did not have the proper CSA (cross sectional area) of copper for your needs there old chap, just to point out they (ie us CAT5 advocates – quite a few BTW) did have the right CSA of copper required using CAT5 and it thus it worked prefectly well, as per our claims.

    Good thread for you to read :

    http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=20368

    Kaiman, try CAT5 as KS suggests they are very cheap to do, many people like them (even in estoric systems) and if you don’t like them, start trying dealer cables. Before that though check out Van Dammes Blue or Black series, or the speaker cables I linked to earlier from Connectrics.com cheaper than the Van Damme and exactly the same configuration.
     
  11. marcm09@hotmail

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    I have made several cat 5 cables and variations and was a believer that they were actually good. I have carried out extensive teating on these cables and have come to the conclusion that you cannot beat a proper cable from a highend company. I have also testing several higher end cables which are stunning and blow the cat 5 out of the water, my impression of the cat 5 is one of a harsh sound at the top end, bass def is muddy and it is quite poor at soundstaging.

    To be honest excellent interconnects and speaker cable is the best money that you can spend on your system, why spend all that money on your lovely gear and ruin it by using cheap or homemade cables ?

    A good cable does not add to the sound all it does is diminish the loss of siginals that are recieved. If you want a real good speaker cables which is priced very well have a look at this website - www.slinkylinks.net - it is a silver cable housed in a plastic tube and insulated by air for minimal loss, thses are simply stunning sounding, read the reviews section, they are in another league in performance but not in price, I can help arrange purchase if required. :thumbsup:
     
  12. Knightshade

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    Fair play marcm, perhaps I should say that Cat5 works very nicely with my present equipment and previous setups? I must say (Maybe it's my ears) but blind I can't tell speaker cable apart. Interconnects yes, but not speaker cable.
    Something else worth noting, unless you have some very high quality speakers you won't have 'slinkylinks' cable in them or anything like it. You'll have el cheapo copper.
    For a start my soldering is considerably better than a lot of the so called 'best' interconnects out there. A poor solder joint on a cable and you might as well use bell wire.
    I have to disagree with your statement 'excellent interconnects and speaker cable is the best money that you can spend on your system'
    Source is the most important, then amps, then speakers. Cabling is for fine tuning. Room accoustics would come before cabling as well. If you don't like the sound of an amp, buy a different amp. Don't try and fix the problem with different cable, that way lies insanity.
     
  13. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Marc what stereo system have you used CAT5 in ?

    I think mine is reasonably placed in the mid-high sector of hifi stereo equipment, the stereo systems that Knightshade has used CAT5 in are eye watering compared to mine, and to class “high end cable” as better is not something I would go along with, for example QED Genesis Biwire @ £60 a metre is high end but do a search on that cable on this forum to see its similarities to CAT5.

    You don’t like CAT5 I have no prosb with that, but to suggest to someone who has never tried it to “disregard” users who have said in the positive aspect about its use, when it its cheap and worth an experiment - to go straight to “high end” speaker cables that cost much more. That to me does not compute Im afraid.
     
  14. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Well “cheap cable” to me that is perfectly up to spec, is well screened coxial cable usually 75ohm rated – this can be bought for 49p a metre upwards. Can be fitted with a variety of plugs, I also have extensive experience with DIY of cables, from many RCA ICs including pure silver ICs, CAT5, woven solid core mains speaker derivatives. IC wise the other evening I made up myself a brand new XLR-XLR 1m pair consisting of Neutrik metal bodied XLR plugs from :

    http://www.connectronics.uk.com/XLR.htm

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    £11.70 for 4.

    2m of Van Damme 3 core Microphone cable from Maplins @ £3

    [​IMG]

    So for £15 I have a XLR cable that would cost me £100+ from a “cable manufacturer”, speaker cable wise I would use this “cheap” cable from the same outfit :

    http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakercable.htm

    Ie concert or studio grade speaker cable sold to studios & concert promoters, ie the sound we audiophiles strive to emulate. From £1.29 - £4 a metre.

    Not what you would use I grant you, but you are very wrong to suggest (especially to new users) that they would ruin their systems with these cables. Its quite simple you have probably made your mind up with sighted pre-bias in what you are listening to and this shapes your perceptionmore than you care to admit. Blind listening tests for me transformed cabling & the hype surrounding it, maybe give it a try.
     
  15. Knightshade

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    Would you say that 3cable cat5 and 6 cable cat5 variations have the same properties? Just curious to hear what you think.
     
  16. marcm09@hotmail

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    to knightshade and cjross- You are not reading my post correctly, firstly this forum is for enjoyment not to slaughter somebody elses likes and dislikes, I have been in the industry for the last 10 years and have owned my own audio business, these are simply my observations. I am not saying to go straight to high end speaker cable, I am saying look towards a mainstream company whom have done all of the reasearch. In my earlier posts I have suggested kimber 4PR which in new zealand is a mere NZ$12 a meter, I have also suggested that if you can stretch to the slinkylinks that its worthwild and that 'why spoil a good system with cheap speaker cable' looking at as the best money you can spend on your system, once you have your components that you want. The slinky links is one of the best priced silver cables out there at a mere $70 p/m and compares to cables costing several times that amount. Good luck on your quest for the ultimate cable. Please keep your comment to a good scale I love comming to this website, but not to find comments underdoging somebody elses suggestions 'old chaps' !

    I honestly thought that i had the ultimate cables with my cat 5's but have since discovered that there is so much better out there at a very realistic price. Interconnects and the slinkylinks have taken my music to a new height, changing was not just a small jump but a giant leap ! Nobody that i have ever sold Slinkylinks to has come back and told me that there wasnt a difference ! Read the reviews on the website you will be amazed. Tryed them on our sons speakers on his midi sytem and they even made a huge difference to that, Im not saying that they will make a bad system good, but they will make a goood system sound stunning, honestly there is tht much difference with the silver cables. If you want I am happy to send you a pair so that you can try them for yourselves. Thanks and good luck everyone !
     
  17. Knightshade

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    Relax Marc, no-ones slaughtering your likes and dislikes. I can't speak for CJ but I was curious about your findings with CAT5. In my system, when you get the right CSA, it's sounds as good as anything on the market. If you've found it all sounds bad then so be it. Everyones different.
    As for the Slinkylinks? Sorry, i'm not particularly interested in reviews, don't think i've ever read one that spent time in the real world. I'd be happy to have a listen though. Got any half meter XLR's?
     
  18. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Marc then yes I am misreading your posts because you are saying exactly that CAT5 should be ignored mainly to spend money on cables costing 10x as much, no slaughter just an opinion at variance with yours for example :

    You’re the chap telling people not to try CAT5 and don’t listen to “their claims” a funny post to me TBH. And they are indeed a match for aftermarket cables and I know more people with them in excellent stereo hifi systems than not.

    Did you or do you sell any cables at present ie as a dealer ?

    Again I will say, anyone telling people not to try CAT5 for themselves for a first step when its cheap (£1.15/m), it clearly matches aftermarket cables from many suppliers, well that to me is not the advice to give starters when they could be using the extra budget on better kit. CSA is all that matters in speaker cabling and it can be done very very cheaply.

    All IMHO of course.
     
  19. marcm09@hotmail

    marcm09@hotmail
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    Your way out of context and have quoted only parts of my posts without carefully reading the entire thing. I sell cables for a living , just out of interest what do you do. looks like you have plenty of time to nit pick other peoples posts and advice, there are some goods cables out there for very little money. I cannnot stress enough that cabling is more important than you think, why keep on upgrading your gear and never being satisfied with it when the underlying problem is that you are missing out on some of the detail from having cabling that could be better.

    Yes I believe that cat 5 can sound ok but what I'm saying is that when you go searching and trying other cables off hte shelf that you will go to new heights, and hear alot more muical information, here are some of the reviews of our New zealand made cables -
    “The bottom-end goes to Australia. But, the Slinkylinks take each note by the balls saying I am in control, you go down, but with clean, taught, dynamic clout, and slam......Did I mention the awesome dynamics?”
    - Jazzy Dave

    Read More



    “I literally had my mouth agape listening today - the extra detail, the immensity of the soundstage and imaging, the sheer improvement in PR&T - I was overcome, I was 90% "there" live.”
    - Iain McGee

    Read More



    “I'm not sure what I was expecting (maybe no difference) but I wasn't prepared for the HUGE difference they made. Bass was fuller and more extended; clarity and detail vastly improved; likewise for the soundstage”

    Read More

    “I'm mixing a Latin jazz/lounge music album at the moment and the mixes sound very tight, very clean, sizzle in the high end and have a nice smooth warm low end.”
    - Terry Bridges

    Read More



    “I often get dragged into listening, unable to tear myself away and thinking how amazing it sounds. It just seems to float out of the air and envelope me in subtle, intricate detail and clarity. Now every time I play music I have that warm glow of satisfaction with the sound.”
    - Ron Jefcoate

    Read More



    “Kathy & I have just spent a couple of hours listening to Angela Georghiou
    (Soprano) and Jacques Loussier on guitar and the sounds are amazing - the fullness, clarity is magical. Thanks for the upgrade - we can't believe the difference!”
    - Alan Irvine



    “They're just so involving and detailed with a smooth sense of ease yet dynamic at the same time. Never do they sound harsh or bright and the bass has exactly the right amount of heft, weight, definition and extension.”
    - Ricky Dasler

    Read More



    “I just want to tell you that I've purchased your cables, both, speaker and interconnects, in the way I usually don't do - without any listening. I really like your cables and they sound really great on my system.”
    - Tadek Barcikowski

    Read More



    “I've just bought some interconnects from Audio42 (much thanks to Adam) in the UK - just thought I'd send you guys a note to say they are absolutely cracking. Well done on a great product (using with Densen), consigning my Nordost's to e-bay! Cheers.
    - Steve



    “Yes very nice! I run a music night once a month and I used them from the Marrantz new SA11 CD player into their mono blocks into Proac 3.8's via your Bi-wire cables. Lovely timing and detail with no loss of warmth and low bass.
    Thanks for these David.”
    - Shane Taylor



    “They sound so good…"Best cables I have ever heard”. I own a pair of Electrostatics and I can hear the train going past the recording studio when I play my favourite album”
    - Chris O'Shea



    “this cable is the best I have ever heard. Bear in mind I replaced the Slinkylinks over a high end Kimber. No comparison.Huge improvement in the mid range......huge.”
    - Graham



    “Audio CD's, oh my god, it sounds like I have 50% better quality in sound.”
    - Jay

    Read More



    “To my ears, nothing I have used in the past come close to the definition and timing released on the listener by these cables.”
    - John Pell – Bass Nation

    Read More



    “Initially the Slinkylinks were noticeably different but it didn't take me long to realise that this was because the sound was so clean; confirmed after reverting back to the old system.”
    - Kevin Leong

    Read More



    “The difference in sound quality, after enabling Slinkylinks, was immediate and quite incredible - it sounded like a "new" stereo”
    - Tom Farkas

    Read More



    “Slinkylinks are the first investment any serious audiophile should make
    when considering a system upgrade..... Polaroid's for your ears”
    - Rob Lapsley

    Read More



    “The clarity of the music is maintained and you hear strings, and bells so clear sometimes it's all a bit startling and you can forget that you are not listening to the real thing.”
    - Peter J Irwin

    Read More



    “With Slinkylinks added to my stereo I felt the performance of the stereo especially the frequency range and quality of response was closer to what I would expect in a live environment than I have ever experienced with a stereo.”
    - Paul Ahern
     
  20. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    My day time job is of no concern to you Marc, but what I do in relation to cables is make my own – not for resale – but out of contempt for the prices and bluff hyped upon them, I for a long time was conned into thinking that cables did make a huge difference, in that period of my audiophile life, I believed beforehand what a cable would do from simple pre-suggestion, thus when I listened voila it happened, This all changed for the better when I tried some blind a/b switching, the rest they say is history I could not detect any difference between ICs either anlg or digital.

    Now you mention you sell cables for a living, well there are other cables sellers on this forum who sell cables and don’t deride other types they don’t sell (which is what you have done) you have also decided to plug away at £1 per metre CAT5 cables insisting that cables from high-end manufacturers are a better solution, I have simply disagreed with you. As for “nit picking” go and read your first post telling people to ignore advice from me & KS about CAT5 because its blown out of the water. I agree there are good cables for very little money, Mark Grant to name one here sells what I would classify as excellent VFM cables that would blow your out of the water VFM wise, I also think DIY wise you get a much better return than you do from dealer bought cables, where lets face it your overhead, labour costs etc etc add nothing to the final sound IMHO from the cable do they ?.

    You may also wish to check the AUP of this website as being a cable dealer it should have been very clear in your signature or member status that you have a vested financial interest in the cables opinion you put across here. I short you can post opinion about cables but I never sell others dealers here deriding any others, they simply talk up their own stuff.

    Well I take an opposite view of reality to you, in fact once you lose the idea that cables can transform your system and spend the monies on them towards better kit then you have a better system, having been a cable believer – I can honestly say I was never happy with my system, in fact the people waxing lyrical about your cables will in a short time need another upgrade fix, either cable wise or component wise, its “part & parcel” of the illness audiophiles suffer when in the grip of cable belief.

    Well that is not how your posts on CAT5 at the start of the thread appear. New heights ? Yes, Well you would say that would you not ? being involved in selling cables. IMHO.
     
  21. Knightshade

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    Marc,
    Couple of things: Firstly you should check out the rules about being a dealer on this forum. Second, I'd be more inclined to believe your claims if you weren't selling the cables and had an interest in bringing people round to your way of thinking.
    Now, your customer referalls are very good but only one or two mention anything about kit they are using. To me this is useless. I could spout on all day about how much improvement a cable could make but if it's on a top of the range Hi Fi you simply aren't going to hear those differences on budget kit.
    The claims like:
    'Audio CD's, oh my god, it sounds like I have 50% better quality in sound'
    are doing you no favours.
     
  22. marcm09@hotmail

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    Dear Lampshade, your wrong again young laddy, even a cable on a budget system will make a big difference, we have used these cables on my 10 year olds midi system with great results. Reviews are rubbish unless you are showing the equipment used, thats rubbish as well. no matter what equipment is used cables do make a difference, cables are the only way which we have of transfering audio signals be it by rca, coaxial or speaker cable, when yo think about it , and its very simple any loss from your equipment will be between these points why spoil it with cruddy cables ! You guys have not got any better things to do than pick holes in your own undies.

    It must be such a boaring little while i'm sitting out on my lux boat sipping wine and enjoying life , all you guys have got to do is try to pick holes in the laws of physics, wasting all of your time pissing around arguing with people on the net over things which you obvouisly are an expert at and do as a full time job. I have 20 staff working for me and things are just lovely, so I must have done something right !

    Maybe you should pop over to NZ for a while since your so knowledgable i may even be able to give you a job, cleaning my toilets that is !
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Well following that I think the best advice is to try Cat 5.

    As some one who has piles of Kimber, VdG, Chord etc here, try Cat5 oh and yes I also do research into the properties of cables as part of my 'day' job.

    and yes I don't sell leads for a living but have been known to give a few away.
     
  24. samjet

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    following the link through the slinkylinks site - there is no way they are budget priced cables when purchased through uk outlets :(

    i've got a friend going to NZ in a few days and will get the prices checked out in country - might give them a try if the price is right
     
  25. gerbilly

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    I find your posts quite abhorant trying to sell people expensive cabling when there are good cheap cables out there. I used to use Atlas and also QED SA cable and all were ditched in my fairly low budget AV and Hifi systems :thumbsdow and replaced with a combination of Van Damme and also CAT5 cabling using the twisted twins style. They sound far better and cost a fraction of what you are suggesting.

    These people have nothing to lose but time trying the cheaper options while with what you suggest they will lose a lot of cash. :thumbsdow
     
  26. Knightshade

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    Marc? Why are you being so rude?
    I have put forward my view in a civil and reasonable way and you reply with name calling and bad language.
    I have in no way rubbished your cables but I have made the suggestion that wild claims may not help you in selling your product to people like me. Insulting me certainly won't get you anywhere (except into deep water).
    Wouldn't be interested in cleaning the toilets old boy. How about I teach you the fundamentals of spelling and sentence construction instead?
     
  27. samjet

    samjet
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    i'm afraid marc seems to have a little bit of an attitude problem :(

    only 10 posts in and he seems to have got off to a good start alienating people - whether in jest or not the toilet cleaning remark was crass in the extreme :nono:

    maybe life's different in french polynesia (on reflection i might have hit the nail on the head - its french :rotfl: )
     
  28. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
    AVForums Founder Staff Member

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    We don't want attitudes like this on the AV Forums.
    Take a week ban, read the forum rules and if you come back please treat other forum members with respect.
     
  29. Londondecca

    Londondecca
    Active Member

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    Which ever cables you choose to shortlist, try and get them on a sale or return basis or even better loan some.

    There is a huge range of cables from Kimber to DIY stuff (TNT has a few variations).

    I would focus more on the setup of the speakers and the acoustics of your room, this will yield a greater improvement in sound quality than any cable at any price.
     
  30. Akcron

    Akcron
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    All i can say is that i only have a budget setup, had Qed silver aniversary cable only about £5.oo a mtr ...but took the chance and made up some Cat 5 bought a 100mtr roll for £15.oo and have been very happy with them .ive never spent lots on cables or had a med-high end system so cant compare them ..but with the lower end they are very good indeed..Akky :thumbsup:
     

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