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Upgrading my PMCs?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by ttree sound, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. ttree sound

    ttree sound
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    I have an Arcam AVR300 together with PMC DB1s fronts and centre, the rears are KEF kht 1005 and they all work with a Rel Q400E sub.

    I recently auditioned the PMC OB1s as a front pair which sounded pretty good but had nowhere near the depth of the Rel sub which sounds awesomely deep with music and DVDs.

    How much of a difference in sound quality would changing the front pairs to the OB1s', or would I be wastin my money?
     
  2. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    The OB1's are top-end speakers and probably deserve more quality & power than your AVR300 can give them. I'd look at bit further down the range at the GB1 or FB1+. These are both fantastic floorstanders and will leave you plenty of cash to get a good sub for the low-end.

    I suspect your current centre speaker would also integrate better with the smaller GB1's than the OB1 too. Move the DB1 fronts to the rear. :)
     
  3. Knightshade

    Knightshade
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    Have to agree with Nobber, OB1's won't even hint at what they're capable of with the AVR300. No disrespect intended. The FB1's would be a good bet especially as they've had the 'Soft Dome' tweeter treatment.
     
  4. Kazman

    Kazman
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    I'd say it would just be the amplification that would be a bit weak for these, you could make use of some good quality stereo or monoblock power amps and still use the processing of the AVR300 if you REALLY want the OB1's.

    But then things would be getting very expensive. And if that expense doesn't mean anything to you, can you lend me £100? :):):):):)
     
  5. vizslaraner

    vizslaraner
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    I echo the above.

    At the moment I use the pre outs of a Denon 3803 into a Bryston 4BSST, but alas new Brystons are not exactly cheap; and used items are pretty rare. However, prior to the Bryston I used a Meridian 559 (300W), so I would imagine a 557(200W) shouldn't be too far off the mark either. Both of these models are fairly regular vistors to sales rooms of fleabay and can be had for reasonable (£/W) cost.
     
  6. ttree sound

    ttree sound
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    Thanks for your responses, it seems that the FB1s' would seem to be the better choice.

    But I have to pose this question. Would the FB1s offer a measurable increase in overall sound quality over the DB1s bearing in mind that my system already uses a pretty good sub?
     
  7. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    I would surmise that the mid-range would certainly be fuller than the DB1s, no idea about the top end though. It all depends as well what the crossover is set at....
     
  8. ttree sound

    ttree sound
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    I believe the crossover and tweeter to be the same in both sets of speakers.
    The crossover is set at 2khz
     
  9. vizslaraner

    vizslaraner
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    I'm intrigued. What was the system used when you auditioned the OB1's?
     
  10. kallenby

    kallenby
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    for info, you can get some v.good secondhand deals at audiogon for bryston SST amps.

    on a personal note - i'd stick with the choice of OB1's, they are a beautiful speaker; don't go for the GB1's or FB1's - they are far too small & nowhere near as good as the OB1's. your DB1's can then be rear speakers which sound v.good - that's what i use.

    if you go with the OB1's though, you should upgrade your amp - everyone is correct when they say that your current amp is too small for the OB1's - BUT they will sound v.good with it until some day you decide to upgrade !

    over to you & good luck with your choice.
     
  11. Knightshade

    Knightshade
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    The Fb1's would certainly produce a bigger sound stage and the bass would have better control and extension due to the larger cabinet size.
    The best I ever heard the OB1's was when they were connected to a Chord Blu/Dac 64 Mk2, Linn Klimax Control pre and Klimax Twin power. Absolutely one of the sweetest, most involving systems i've heard. Absolutely no need for a sub!
    Like I said it takes a lot to really make them sing!
     
  12. ttree sound

    ttree sound
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    Knightshade, you mention that a sub would not be needed with the OB1s, but when I recently auditioned them, the base they produced was clean and well extended but fell behind the quality/quantity of base that my Rel sub produces. I also use this system to listen to DVDs which I assume requires a sub to produce the lowest frequencies that DVDs contain which a speaker such as the OB1 could not produce sufficient quantity of the LFE track.

    So my sub has to stay, and back to my original question which no one has been able to answer with any degree of certainty. Will a floorstander give me a measurable increase in sound quality over my standmounter plus sub or to put it another way, does my standmounter plus sub give me as much as I would expect from a floorstander plus sub or would the difference be not sufficiently better to warrant this upgrade?

    Has anyone ever changed from standmounters plus sub to floorstanders plus sub and noticed a vast improvement in sound quality?
     
  13. vizslaraner

    vizslaraner
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    I'm bemused. Exactly how much bass do you require?

    Several people here have answered your question and told you that the OB1's are excellent speakers, but they are in need of some reasonably serious ancilliary equipment for them to give of their best. That's why I enquired about the set up used when you auditioned them; I find it difficult to believe you required the assistance of the sub when listening to 2 channel music.

    David
    PS
    For films I use an B&W ASW1000 sub, but have no need for it when listening to CD's.
     
  14. Knightshade

    Knightshade
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    Hi Ttree,
    I thought I'd answered your question?
    To reiterate, the FB1's will sound fuller in the midrange and bass due to the larger cabinet size. The OB1's may sound better again, however a substantial investment in amplification would be needed to get to the position where a sub would no longer be required. I can't see how you'd really need it for music unless your room is enormous.
    But like Vizslarner asks 'How much bass do you want?'
    I would suspect that the problem lies in what was being used to drive them it's not all about power and watts it's about how quickly and cleanly that power gets to the speaker.
     
  15. ttree sound

    ttree sound
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    Thanks, Knightshade and others for you comments.

    I am a bit of a base head, I like my music to simulate the depth and power of base at a live concert, I do like to feel its fullness and power not just a hint of whats available on the recording. I dont think there is currently available a floorstander that provides this degree of base alone, the drive units of modern speakers are simply too small to move enough air. My room dimensions are 17feet by 14feet. I think it may be time to audition them in my room so that I can be certain.
     
  16. aquapiranha

    aquapiranha
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    While I agree that perhaps the AVR cannot do the FB1's justice, I myself have just ordered a pair of PMC TB2S+ which I must say sound unbelievable when partnered with my 93T A85 and P85, bi-amped of course. If anybody here is serious about buying new speakers, I urge you to at least listen to PMC range, especially since the latest upgrade, I promise it will be worth it!
    Aquapiranha
     
  17. Knightshade

    Knightshade
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    Aquapiranha,
    Definitely, PMC's benefit from Bi - Amping. Great choice by the way!

    Ttree sound,
    I have to disagree on the Sub thing. I use a pair of Linn Akurate 242's on my main system in a bi-amped configuration. The bass produced is thunderous and they only use 2x 6.5" bass units. It can be too much for the room sometimes and it's 25feet x 18Feet with high ceilings! I'll be amazed if you don't suffer with huge amounts of bass boom at high volumes!
    I also heard the JMLAB Grand Utopia which consists of a 15" an 11" and 2x 6.5" drivers + a tweeter. More than enough bass for anyone in that beast! I think the recommended room size is 50' x 25' with 12' ceilings.
    I'd say definitely demo the Ob1's in your room. If you want more bass out of them boost your amplification stage.
     
  18. vizslaraner

    vizslaraner
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    Have you not seen the larger PMC's?

    One of the principles behind TL designs is that one doesn't need humongous bass drivers to produce extended bass. If, however, the 6/7" bass unit of the OB1 isn't big enough for you, try the 10" of the IB2 . . . or the 12" of the MB2 . . . or the 15" of the BB5 . . . or the 2x12" of the MB2/XBD . . . or the 2x15" of the BB5/XBD. I'm sure one of them will be big enough for you; albeit at a price.

    Not too dissimilar to mine . . . and, as I said, I don't need a sub for music.

    David
     
  19. ttree sound

    ttree sound
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    Vizslaraner,

    Point taken, I am going for the FB1s after I today had a telephone duscussion with a very helpfull PMC rep.

    Thanks for all your assistance.
     

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