Upgrading Denon av4500 for the av4700 or av6700

Tuppence

Active Member
Yes, but as listeners are the subjects in question that translates to inaudible vs audible.

As you might know, I’m far more into objective measurements around here than most (and I am not an Arcam fan at all) but you also have to appreciate their limitations. Much of what ASR pump out is simply irrelevant to real world use.

I also don’t buy into how much better they sound than D&M AVRs because that’s not my experience. Harman have proved that room acoustics and speakers dominate sound quality to the point that (unless they’re clipping) amps are almost irrelevant which is ironic considering they now own the Arcam brand.

Also, you’d have to be pretty daft or have a very special system to not be setting your speakers to Small.
Not if you haven't got a sub.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Not if you haven't got a sub.


Many would argue if you have't got a sub at this stage when buying a processor AND a dedicated amplifier, you'd be better off splitting that budget and investing in a dedicated subwoofer to handle the low end as not many/any speakers will compete with a 12inch ported subwoofer for low end output which we can all realistically house.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Not if you haven't got a sub.

Or if you have full range towers with subs (or Def tech with integrated subs) either way the arcam digital system is broke, arcam attempts show what the company is about. Rather than fix the problem they blame it on "ground loop" issues.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
There is a bloke selling an AVR10 on ebay for £1600.00 i was tempted
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
There is a bloke selling an AVR10 on ebay for £1600.00 i was tempted

Read this objective test

 

fatrich

Well-known Member
I actual have seen that
anyway needless to say i didn't make any offers
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Or if you have full range towers with subs (or Def tech with integrated subs) either way the arcam digital system is broke, arcam attempts show what the company is about. Rather than fix the problem they blame it on "ground loop" issues.

Full range towers are not going to match the low end of a decent set of subwoofers. In my room, I have 2x Mono 15s, and 4 woofers under the seat in Fosgates.

My Arendal 1723S towers which are fairly decent, running at full range, will not provide a flatter FR than what my EQed subs can. I really doubt OP has mains which are going to compete with decent subwoofer offerings.

For the £3000 he was going to spend on the Anthem, he'd be better off putting 999 on the AVR390 and £2000 on a pair of powerful subwoofers (if he doesn't already have them) and a minidsp2x4hd for calibration of them alongside a UMIK.
 

Tuppence

Active Member
Many would argue if you have't got a sub at this stage when buying a processor AND a dedicated amplifier, you'd be better off splitting that budget and investing in a dedicated subwoofer to handle the low end as not many/any speakers will compete with a 12inch ported subwoofer for low end output which we can all realistically house.
Hi Ken,
i've nothing against the arcam390 , i'm looking for a new receiver myself and been looking
at the arcam , but unfortunately i stay in flat and don't want to upset the neighbours that's
why i haven't got a sub , so would have to set speakers to large on the receiver.
Hopefully will be moving this year sometime and i'll be able to get a sub then, so might end up with a 390 if there's any left.:thumbsup:

regards
Roy
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Hi Ken,
i've nothing against the arcam390 , i'm looking for a new receiver myself and been looking
at the arcam , but unfortunately i stay in flat and don't want to upset the neighbours that's
why i haven't got a sub , so would have to set speakers to large on the receiver.
Hopefully will be moving this year sometime and i'll be able to get a sub then, so might end up with a 390 if there's any left.:thumbsup:

regards
Roy


You can have a subwoofer and not have it rumbling the house or apartment mate. I had a flat a few years ago when I lived away for work and still ran a subwoofer (BK Mono Plus which is a pretty big sub).

Subwoofer does not mean earthquakes, ground shaking and massive vibrations. You can even calibrate or set a low pass filter if the LFE does become problematic for neighbours.

A subwoofer offers a very smooth, superior bass experience in the lower frequencies than what a few speakers can do.

I have a subwoofer in my sitting room in the front which is hardly ever going to loud volumes yet the sub offers a beautiful experience in filling in the 'gaps' where speakers will sometimes struggle. It also allows the speakers a lot more headroom as the low end stuff can be quite challenging for them to reproduce and the sub handles them. Even my family when they visit can now hear when the sub isn't playing despite it being quite subtle (I think I'm slowly converting them to being audiophiles).

I would definitely not write off purchasing a subwoofer because you live in an apartment. If its because of budget or size - then of course. But its not going to instantly upset the neighbours - only if you tune it to do so.

Another option is you can build a hoverBOSS and a small subwoofer. The hoverBOSS will give you the tactility and rumble of a subwoofer but without the sound transmitting to the neighbours because the BOSS's vibrations come from below you like a tactile transuducer.


Again, ignore all of this if budget or space is an issue; but a flat is not a contraindicating factor to owning a subwoofer.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Hi Ken,
i've nothing against the arcam390 , i'm looking for a new receiver myself and been looking
at the arcam , but unfortunately i stay in flat and don't want to upset the neighbours that's
why i haven't got a sub , so would have to set speakers to large on the receiver.
Hopefully will be moving this year sometime and i'll be able to get a sub then, so might end up with a 390 if there's any left.:thumbsup:

regards
Roy

Arcams have major bug when setting to large, the unit is broke.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
Hi Ken,
i've nothing against the arcam390 , i'm looking for a new receiver myself and been looking
at the arcam , but unfortunately i stay in flat and don't want to upset the neighbours that's
why i haven't got a sub , so would have to set speakers to large on the receiver.
Hopefully will be moving this year sometime and i'll be able to get a sub then, so might end up with a 390 if there's any left.:thumbsup:

regards
Roy
Ive got a couple of small Yamaha subs in the bedroom and lounge and they are great you can get them for £50 to £60 but they are not in your face cant remember the model exactly YSP SW50 i think
I have x2 SVS sb2000's in my dedicated room but couldn't have them in the lounge or bedroom
its worth checking them out as a short term solution until you decide to move and they can be re sold very easily
 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Ive got a couple of small Yamaha subs in the bedroom and lounge and they are great you can get them for £50 to £60 but they are not in your face cant remember the model exactly YSP SW50 i think
I have x2 SVS 1000's in my dedicated room but couldn't have them in the lounge or bedroom
its worth checking them out as a short term solution until you decide to move and they can be re sold very easily

You can still even run a 'massive subwoofer' and just dial it down. The bigger the subwoofer, the more air it can move but also more dynamic headroom it normally has.

Not running a sub due to budget or space is fine; but volume or vibration because living in an apartment is not a valid excuse because its the user who is pushing their sub to produce that kind of mayhem.

Also the advantage is once you do move to a new house, and he can let his subwoofer then run rampant, he will upgrade to duals or a new sub quickly ;)
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Not if you haven't got a sub.
Yes because that is a “very special system”.

special​

adjective
  1. [usually before noun] not ordinary or usual; different from what is normal.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Yes because that is a “very special system”.

special​

adjective
  1. [usually before noun] not ordinary or usual; different from what is normal.


You were very polite there Mr Wolf that you didn't go for the other descriptor you had mentioned in your post..

Also, you’d have to be pretty daft or have a very special system to not be setting your speakers to Small.
:D Just playing!

But Tuppence, on a serious note, a subwoofer in an apartment is definitely reasonable. You just have to tune it to take over the low end without causing earthquakes. Its really not that hard given most of us buy £1000s worth of subwoofers to try and produce those earthquakes but still can't quite manage it. I'd have sold you my BK mono + for a song but I've decided to keep it now but I'm sure a comparable/better/cheaper deal is available on classifields.

I'd be happy to try and find you a deal or help out in anyway I can. Subs are excellent additions to an experience trust me, just finding the right one and tuning it properly. Or better yet, I can REALLY help you if u want to go down the hoverboss route. Its probably the best resolution to get as close to full fidelity low end impact without the neighbours realising as its literaly woofers firing into you.. but the cost and time effort is a bit high.
 
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Tuppence

Active Member
Yes because that is a “very special system”.

special​

adjective
  1. [usually before noun] not ordinary or usual; different from what is normal.
Hi ,
Sorry Mr Wolf i wasn't having a go at you, it was just in my case at the present i would need
set speakers to large.
By the way i am daft.:facepalm:

Regards
Roy
 

Tuppence

Active Member
Ive got a couple of small Yamaha subs in the bedroom and lounge and they are great you can get them for £50 to £60 but they are not in your face cant remember the model exactly YSP SW50 i think
I have x2 SVS 1000's in my dedicated room but couldn't have them in the lounge or bedroom
its worth checking them out as a short term solution until you decide to move and they can be re sold very easily
You were very polite there Mr Wolf that you didn't go for the other descriptor you had mentioned in your post..


:D Just playing!

But Tuppence, on a serious note, a subwoofer in an apartment is definitely reasonable. You just have to tune it to take over the low end without causing earthquakes. Its really not that hard given most of us buy £1000s worth of subwoofers to try and produce those earthquakes but still can't quite manage it. I'd have sold you my BK mono + for a song but I've decided to keep it now but I'm sure a comparable/better/cheaper deal is available on classifields.

I'd be happy to try and find you a deal or help out in anyway I can. Subs are excellent additions to an experience trust me, just finding the right one and tuning it properly. Or better yet, I can REALLY help you if u want to go down the hoverboss route. Its probably the best resolution to get as close to full fidelity low end impact without the neighbours realising as its literaly woofers firing into you.. but the cost and time effort is a bit high.
Hi Ken & Richard ,
Thankyou for all the advice, but i will probably leave getting sub till i move, so hope it won't
be to long.
But still looking for a Receiver.:lesson:

regards Roy.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Hi Ken & Richard ,
Thankyou for all the advice, but i will probably leave getting sub till i move, so hope it won't
be to long.
But still looking for a Receiver.:lesson:

regards Roy.
I'd wait on receiver and buy both at the same time if you can.

a) you'll get a better deal buying both, more room for negotiation with retailer
b) if you do go for a sub (or 2), it will dictate which receiver u get.

In my experience re: home AV, always better to do upgrades collectively to ensure they match and play well with each other.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
My Denon AVR4500H may be up for sale soon
 

Tuppence

Active Member
I'd wait on receiver and buy both at the same time if you can.

a) you'll get a better deal buying both, more room for negotiation with retailer
b) if you do go for a sub (or 2), it will dictate which receiver u get.

In my experience re: home AV, always better to do upgrades collectively to ensure they match and play well with each other.
Hi Ken,
Good point about buying both together, never thought about that.
Having said that I see richard might be selling his 4500 soon.
regards Roy.
 

Zarf2007

Active Member
Arcams have major bug when setting to large, the unit is broke.
which 99% of people do anyway

Why do you keep quoting this crap from ASR when it was proven that he didn’t configure the unit correctly for the tests which made all of his tests invalid anyway. Look at his later tests for the avr550 and it proves he did it correctly that time, got a much better result but didn’t bother to re-test the 390. The guy is a joke, he even had problems recently setting up a blue sound node which even my 5 year old son could do.

why people put such stock in this loser is beyond me.
 
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rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Why do you keep quoting this crap from ASR when it was proven that he didn’t configure the unit correctly for the tests which made all of his tests invalid anyway. Look at his later tests for the avr550 and it proves he did it correctly that time, got a much better result but didn’t bother to re-test the 390. The guy is a joke, he even had problems recently setting up a blue sound node which even my 5 year old son could do.

we people put such stock in this loser is beyond me.

Link to 550?
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
he even had problems recently setting up a blue sound node which even my 5 year old son could do.
I‘m considering getting one of these and that’s one review I won’t be reading, if it can actually be called a review.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
I‘m considering getting one of these and that’s one review I won’t be reading, if it can actually be called a review.
Personal opinions like yours are irrelevant.

Audioholics confirmed the same roll off issue with marantz AV pres.
 

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