Upgrading Denon av4500 for the av4700 or av6700

fatrich

Well-known Member
Happy New Year to all

Ive got the upgrade bug and currently have a Denon av4500 which i only use the receivers power output for the front & rear atmos channels as i will be collecting a x7 channel power amp (collecting next week) and currently use Audiolab 8000M's and 8000P's to run the LCR,sides and back rears so in effect i mainly only use the 4500's processing power

My question to any in the know is is it worth upgrading to the Denon av4700 or av6700? are there any benefits to what i have?

I have been looking at the Anthem 740 receiver any thoughts on this? its over £3000.00 and my wife would kill me if she found out

Thanks in advance

Richard
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Both the X4700 and X6700 have the HDMI 2.1 which benefits gamers more than it does for film watchers along with a few other new specs which include virtual Atmos which to most is another thing that you don't really need. Audio you'll just be getting the same with the 4700 as you currently do with the 4500.

The X6700 will give you mono block amps and an increase in audio performance over your current model. Has more processing power even over the old X6500 to 13 channels.

You're main problem is going to be availability and the current stubborn high price for the Denon models considering you already have a very good Denon product. As for the Anthem I've never listened to one so will not comment.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
Both the X4700 and X6700 have the HDMI 2.1 which benefits gamers more than it does for film watchers along with a few other new specs which include virtual Atmos which to most is another thing that you don't really need. Audio you'll just be getting the same with the 4700 as you currently do with the 4500.

The X6700 will give you mono block amps and an increase in audio performance over your current model. Has more processing power even over the old X6500 to 13 channels.

You're main problem is going to be availability and the current stubborn high price for the Denon models considering you already have a very good Denon product. As for the Anthem I've never listened to one so will not comment.
Thanks for your comments
I will have a more detailed look at the 6700 but your are correct the prices are really high right now with very little in the way of discounts maybe a good idea to just wait and see if prices reduce in the near future or even the January sales
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Why buy a avr if using it as a AV pre? Just buy a AV pre.

Cheapest is tonewinner at-200 and goes all way upto trinnov altitude 32.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
Why buy a avr if using it as a AV pre? Just buy a AV pre.

Cheapest is tonewinner at-200 and goes all way upto trinnov altitude 32.
Ive looked at an av processor / receiver and to be honest yes i would prefer an av processor but what ive been looking at are too expensive and buggy
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Yeah does seem the Denon x700 are stable and have all channel pre amp mode, decent room eq but issue with hdmi 2.1 bug and the box then downgraded DACs just made me facepalm. I was going to get 3700 but decided take risk on at300
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
I had a look at the tonewinner and they tick all the boxes and very good price but re sales would be a real problem i think

So have you bought a tonewinner 300?
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
I had a look at the tonewinner and they tick all the boxes and very good price but re sales would be a real problem i think

So have you bought a tonewinner 300?

Yeah AT-300 £1050. That's cheaper than the 3700/ I've read two people with Denon AVR they changed to AT300 and noticed SQ improvement.

Only thing I'm disappointed is the auto room EQ.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
Im just reading your thread on the tonewinner 300
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
Yeah AT-300 £1050. That's cheaper than the 3700/ I've read two people with Denon AVR they changed to AT300 and noticed SQ improvement.

Only thing I'm disappointed is the auto room EQ.
Where did you get it from Ebay?
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
yeah. I've left a review here


 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
I have been looking at the Anthem 740 receiver any thoughts on this? its over £3000.00 and my wife would kill me if she found out
As you have a 7-channel power amp, provided you have no plans to go beyond 7.1.4 and it has the features you need, I would seriously consider the Arcam AVR390 which is currently on offer for £999.


The main potential advantage is that it comes with DIRAC Live room correction. It's also reported to have an excellent pre-amplification section.

The downside is the on-board amps are a bit wimpy and non-assignable but if you're you're only using them for surround duties that shouldn't be an issue. Many members use these AVRs as 7.1.4 processors. Others use beefy 7-channel power amps (e.g. IOTA AVXP1) to power the LCRs and four heights and the Arcam's on-board amps for bed level surrounds.
 
Last edited:

fatrich

Well-known Member
As you have a 7-channel power amp, provided you have no plans to go beyond 7.1.4 and it has the features you need, I would seriously consider the Arcam AVR390 which is currently on offer for £999.


The main potential advantage is that it comes with DIRAC Live room correction. It's also reported to have an excellent pre-amplification section.

The downside is the on-board amps are a bit wimpy and non-assignable but if you're you're only using them for surround duties that shouldn't be an issue. Many members use these AVRs as 7.1.4 processors. Others use beefy 7-channel power amps (e.g. IOTA AVXP1) to power the LCRs and four heights and the Arcam's on-board amps for bed level surrounds.
I considered the Arcam before i bought the Denon but it was all the bugs that put me off and does the 390 have earc? i wil have to re check

Thanks
Richard
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
I considered the Arcam before i bought the Denon but it was all the bugs that put me off and does the 390 have earc? i wil have to re check

Thanks
Richard
I'm not actually an Arcam owner (currently have Yamaha/Denon AVRs with no power amps) but the AVR390 is part of the older FMJ series for which I believe any bugs were ironed out a long time ago.

AFAIK the AVR390 does not support eARC although that would never be an issue for me.

Even though I'm not a major Arcam fan in general, I do think the AVR390 represents good value at £999 for those that have power amps and might benefit from DIRAC. AFAIK it uses exactly the same processor as the far more expensive AVR550/AVR850 models.

I suggest you have a look around the AVR390 owner's thread to evaluate it as an option.

I know that @kenshingintoki has one and uses it with a 7-channel power amp for 7.1.4 and is very pleased with it. He might be able to give you a few pointers.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
Just trolled around the classifieds and the 390's go for £550 to £600 mark but no warranty as Arcam is now non transferable which is a shame
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Just trolled around the classifieds and the 390's go for £550 to £600 mark but no warranty as Arcam is now non transferable which is a shame
In such situations, as part of the sale, many reputable members will undertake to process such warranty claims on your behalf in the event of an issue.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
True as would i
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
I considered the Arcam before i bought the Denon but it was all the bugs that put me off and does the 390 have earc? i wil have to re check

Thanks
Richard

Not much choice when it comes to affordable AV pre.

Reagrading that arcam
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
There's a Yamaha AV pre for sale, it's good overall apart from l/r xlr pre out has high Distortion compared to other channels so use RCA instead.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Not much choice when it comes to affordable AV pre.

Reagrading that arcam
...and closer to home here:

 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
...and closer to home here:


Objective versus subjective. The arcam has to be set to small in bass management otherwise Distortion goes through the roof
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
99% of people should be setting their speakers to small and using their subwoofers at a pretty high crossover (and multiple subs at that) for bass anyway. With speakers set to small, the pre-out voltage of the AVR390 is excellent and as good as many pre's.

The most important positive of the Arcam in my experience is the digital room correction aka DIRAC. Not all members of the forum can afford £1000s+ in room treatment or even afford a dedicated space to room listening and GOOD digital room correction can make a massive difference. I'd say DIRAC's near top of the line once you understand it: the next step up is Trinnov/Lyngdorf.

The AVR390 is now bug-free too, where bugs which others had during release and its infancy which might've affected performance are gone. You have a rock solid AVR.

I went back to a Denon in my second cinema room and its horrible. I wish I'd just bought something else because the audio correction on it is just not very good. In an ideal world we shouldn't be relying on digital room correction but 99% of people who are asking questions like this, don't have room treatment and therefore its a bigger factor to take into account.

Honestly its sad in the UK AV community. We seem to have a few EXCELLENT deals but we still penny pinch and wait. A year from now when these AVR390s are out of circulation, you won't find a better box for sound quality at £999 with 5 years warranty and the only offerings will be budget brands. I have similar feelings with the Monolith subwoofer line from monoprice. We cry for a good deal like the US, we get it, and we still don't support companies offering double the performance for the same price. I'm guessing even when the AVR10 is discontinued, Arcam won't offer it at this price in 3-5 years time. Most likely, they simply manufacturerd too many AVR390s and won't repeat it again. I saw LG do this with the 77'' C9 a few years ago, then the CX they had far less excess stock.

The main drawback of the AVR390 is it only supports 11 channels. This will not apply to 99% of people again as most people would agree that if you have 11 channels of an inferior speaker line, rather than upgrade past that, you'd be better off upgrading your speakers. For example, most people can't afford 13 channels of the Arendal 1723/1961 series so its a moot point either in price or space.
 
Last edited:

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Objective versus subjective. The arcam has to be set to small in bass management otherwise Distortion goes through the roof
Yes, but as listeners are the subjects in question that translates to inaudible vs audible.

As you might know, I’m far more into objective measurements around here than most (and I am not an Arcam fan at all) but you also have to appreciate their limitations. Much of what ASR pump out is simply irrelevant to real world use.

I also don’t buy into how much better they sound than D&M AVRs because that’s not my experience. Harman have proved that room acoustics and speakers dominate sound quality to the point that (unless they’re clipping) amps are almost irrelevant which is ironic considering they now own the Arcam brand.

Also, you’d have to be pretty daft or have a very special system to not be setting your speakers to Small.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Yes, but as listeners are the subjects in question that translates to inaudible vs audible.

As you might know, I’m far more into objective measurements around here than most (and I am not an Arcam fan at all) but you also have to appreciate their limitations. Much of what ASR pump out is simply irrelevant to real world use.

I also don’t buy into how much better they sound than D&M AVRs because that’s not my experience. Harman have proved that room acoustics and speakers dominate sound quality to the point that (unless they’re clipping) amps are almost irrelevant which is ironic considering they now own the Arcam brand.

Also, you’d have to be pretty daft or have a very special system to not be setting your speakers to Small.

100%.
 

fatrich

Well-known Member
Thank you for the input guys
 

The latest video from AVForums

Samsung S95B QD OLED Review - A Quantum Leap for OLED!
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

PSB Speakers unveils Passif 50 loudspeaker
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Samsung Gaming Hub goes live
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Huawei unveils FreeBuds Pro 2 true wireless earbuds
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Sony unveils Inzone gaming brand
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Bowers & Wilkins launches Px7 S2 wireless headphones
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom