Upgraded power supply

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by johnson, May 13, 2004.

  1. johnson

    johnson
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    Hi
    Does anyone know, what specifically was changed in the power supply in the av32r DP and 192?
    Regards
    Simon
     
  2. Thunder

    Thunder
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    More caps were added to beef it up and take account of the extra DSPs in the DP. The 192 has an additional power supply to feed the optional boards.
     
  3. johnson

    johnson
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    So it's just increased smoothing capacitance in the DP?
    Thanks Thunder
     
  4. Stevesky

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    The AV32R DP and AV192R both had PSU upgrades compared to the AV32R SP.

    The 32DP uses low loss rectifiers on the v3.3 rail to cope with the extra load introduced by the extra DSP card. It also has extra heatsinks on the regulators and larger vents on the top lid.

    the 192R is a bit more complex. The v3.3 has been vamped up the same as the 32DP, the 5 volt digital rail also has low loss rectifiers on it to cope with the extra load from expansion board etc. and various caps have been placed here and there on the analog rails as a bit of tweakery! The 192R also has a seperate optional video processing PSU to power the PSM and another external one if you have the VS2048.
     
  5. Plump

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    Thanks Steve.
    Bother to tell us who you are (bit hard for outsider to know this , especially in these words)?
     
  6. Teejoo

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    Hey Steve! :hiya: ,

    Nice that you found the altern. forum! I believe everyone is aboard now, so it really looks like the old Tag forum!

    Theo
     
  7. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi, as far as I remember there are also important changes to the grounding structure in the AV32R DP, which improved the sound quality. This was done as a power supply can only work well if the ground, its controls against, is rock solid at any point in the (electrical) chain.

    In the AV192R these modifications went further with the distribution of 3.3V and 5V consumers also being rearranged to provide an even better power regulation. This was possible as the AV192R offers more physical space and better convection cooling.

    The end result is that the AV32R DP sounds better than the SP, and the AV192R better than the AV32R DP. Really worthwhile changes...

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. simoncope

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    Is that really you?

    Was truly saddened to hear of the demise of Tag McLaren Audio. You created a great range of products, and I hope that IAG will do them justice. Still planning on getting an AV32R-DP for home at some point.

    Hope you are enjoying life in Portugal. I know that you never truly relax - what are you up to now?


    Regards,

    Simon Cope
    Martin Kleiser Ltd
     
  9. johnson

    johnson
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    Thankyou Steve/Udo.
    The reason I was asking is because I have perfect mains power and was wondering if there was still any benefit to the changes.
    Regards
    Simon
     
  10. Stevesky

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    The power supply mods are primarily there to cope with the extra electronics in the box. More bits = increased power requirements from transformer, rectifiers, regulators etc. = more heat generated!

    The key measureable things that you'll find on the 32DP and 192R that improve sound quality are the 192K DAC's as standard, superior DSP processing in all areas (most filter calculations at 80bit precision and better intermediate and output dithers) and once set up properly the TMREQ room equalisation.

    All I suggest is don't worry about all the trickery that goes on inside the box, just sit back and enjoy the music! :)
     
  11. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Assuming that it is...welcome to you,Udo,and let's hope that Tag's products continue to thrive under the new management.

    Stevesky.....welcome as well,especially as you seem very knowledgeable on the innards of a Tag!.....are you currently/previously employed there?....if so,a very useful addition to the forums.
     
  12. johnson

    johnson
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    Thanks Steve,Appreciated
     
  13. Miron

    Miron
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    One of the big problems are that all those usefull files from old TAG Site are lost (forever?)

    Before, it was very easy to find answers onto many questions, just go to users club and many descriptions and files were available. It will be big shame if they all never find their way back to the web.

    Anyone has backup? I basically only have software versions fo runits I run and few PDFs.
     
  14. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi Miron, I made a copy of most files which were available for download - I was somehow expecting that I might one day need one of these files as I continously used www.tagmclaren.com as my reference library.
     
  15. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Many thanks for that,Udo....would you be interested in a permanent home for downloads such as those you've mentioned?....if so,it may be worth approaching Stuart(Spectre),the site administrator and seeing if something can be arranged,or maybe someone else here can help as well.
     
  16. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi Simon, even if you have a perfect mains supply (well done!) these modifications will affect the sound quality as they improve the stability of the low voltage power rails. These changes have in actual fact little to do with the AC mains side, as they deal with the voltage stability affected by power consumption - high speed digital circuitry is very demanding in this respect.

    Sound quality clearly improves from AV32R SP via AV32R DP to AV192 due to better stabilised low voltage rails/ground structure but, let's not forget, in addition AV32R DP and AV192R use improved signal processing algorithms which add significantly to the hardware based sound quality improvements.
     
  17. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    We have a fast server with loads of bandwidth at our disposal.
    I would be quite happy to host any files for the use of Tag owners.
    We could create a sticky thread in this forum entitled 'Tag file downloads' (or whatever is deemed appropriate) and this would contain a list of links to download the files.
    If Dr Zucker would like to PM me we can arrange this.
     
  18. johnson

    johnson
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    Thankyou Udo.
    Very informative as usual.If I could get the power supply mods on their own,I probably would.I use my equipment mostly for 2channel at the moment.

    Regards
    Simon
     
  19. johnson

    johnson
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    Udo/Steve,
    In your opinion,would there be any benefit in applying similar mods in the power supply of the DVD32r?
    Regards
     
  20. Kenny Glasgow

    Kenny Glasgow
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    Nice to "see" you again Udo!!!
     
  21. mlinhares

    mlinhares
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    Nice to "see" you again Dr. Zucker! I will also be in the Algarve (Lagos) for this weekend, hope the weather continuos like this…

    I also have a lot a files, PDF and software versions that I kept and because I have a lot of Tag products. I have files for them: AV32 DP, 250x3, 100x5, T32R, DVD32R, Aphrodite and a few weeks ago bought a pair of Calliope (amazing speakers).

    Miguel Linhares
     
  22. cmbe

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    Hi Dr. Zucker, is nice to see you among us once more ;-)

    Now this really is the TMA forum :).

    Carlos
     
  23. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi Simon, I don't think so.

    The DVD32R/DVD32FLR already has a massive power supply - just have a look into a player to verify this statement.

    In addition, please remember the DVD32R/DVD32FLR doesn't provide any analog audio outputs [the DVD32's electronics designers could never make 5/7 DACs inside the DVD32 excellent enough to be accepted by the Golden Ears, hence they were dropped from the initial design brief: initial chassis showed the holes for the DAC outputs!].

    Minimising jitter on the SPDIF output was therefore an all important design goal. This was, so I believe, pretty well achieved using a four layer printed circuit board, careful layout with most carefully controlled impedance matched/controlled audio and video output stages. This of course on top of the very important solid mechanial support for drive/laser/servo [sub chassis, heavy construction, carefully tuned rubber gromets etc].

    In addition there is the TAGtronic Sync Link which ties the DVD32 SPDIF clock to the AV30R/AV32R/AV192R master clock. The result is class leading low jitter figures and hence - in my and many other people's opinion-
    excellent sound and picture. :clap:
     
  24. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Yes Simon, it's me.

    Thanks for your kind words regards the achievements the excellent team, I was allowed to set up around me, made during the last few years. I very much hope that our hard work will find a place in the history books of great hifi.
     
  25. Kenny Glasgow

    Kenny Glasgow
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    Udo

    The support that I reveived from everyone at TMA was exceptional, including your goodself over Christmas 2 years ago. I cherish and hopefully will for years to come, all my TMA equipment, I just wish I had more of it! :smashin:
     
  26. lowrider

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    Hi Udo,

    Nice to see you again, best wishes for you and your family... :hiya:
     
  27. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Hi all.

    I have been sent several documents that I needed for a report via :censored: (I wouldn't want to get him in trouble) so things can still be retrieved from the old site obviously, the main reasons for not being able to get at the things offically via the new website is almost certainly down to lawyers pouring over every word to make sure TAGMcLaren/F1 and any legal comeback is avoided........For the same reasons I wonder if we are allowed to use them (copyright??) on open forum. I doubt there is any reason why they can't be sent around privately though :) I made the point quite loudly to David Patching that the old site was a gold-mine of useful information and should be made available but I don;t know if he will do this as almost everyone else in the industry wouldn't take the risk TAG took setting up and managing such a site. It is a lot of work, we thought it worthwhile and so did Udo and Co but.....
     
  28. roversd1

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    Morning Udo!

    Hope all is well?
     
  29. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    That particular statement also gets my vote, I've been inside most variations of AV32R, AV32R/DP and AV192R and although some bits of the PSU's have been "tided" up (why on earth the VSM PSU can't be inside the AV192R is beyond me...!!) the main reason is obviously to achieve the power level required for all those additions, if these mods on their own make anything other than the most tiny difference to the sound I'd be surprised. The big differences come from the DAC's/DSP/TMREQ and associated software. As for sound quality differences between the AV32R/DP and the AV192R, assuming you are using the same connections on both, they sound the same. Naturally there is more room for improvement in the AV192R (balanced connections maybe) and scope for higher integration and video processing due to the options that can be fitted because of the greater space available but I personally would never recommend anyone upgrade from a DP to a AV192R for improved sound quality, do it for the 101 other reasons if you need them ;)

    As Steve says, "sit back and enjoy the music" :D
     
  30. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi Graham, if the power supply for the VSM2048 would be installed inside the AV192R it would simply overheat as the heat dissipation requirement would almost double. Please remember that the AV192R already runs pretty hot.
     

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