Upgrade TV or PVR?

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by alhambra2, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Hi,
    We've a 8-9 year old Sony Bravia 40S300 which we use with a Humax PVR 9300T. I've been thinking about upscaling to a larger screen and getting a smart TV to do away with the Now TV box that we also use.
    The notion of better quality HD channels is appealing, but it occurs to me that if we are still using the Humax we may not get these, since the aerial feed goes through the Humax tuner before going to the TV? I may not be understanding the relationship between the devices, so maybe it would be OK. If we still want to record programmes maybe upgrading the Humax to one that receives HD channels would be a better solution, rather then the TV would be a better solution? A bigger screen does appeal though.

    Hoping to get a 49-55" TV for under £550 in order to get OK from the other half. Cannot afford to buy new TV and find picture quality is the same due to PVR.

    Any help gratefully received, thanks.

    Cheers
     
  2. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    My main concern would be how much standard definition material you still watch if upgrading to an UHD model. UHD models don't look good when fed with anything < than HD.

    If you want to retain recording functionality similar to the Humax whilst gain channels 101-105 (HD 1-5) then you will need to upgrade also the PVR.

    But depending on what you watch, you may just be happy using catch up TV instead of recording altogether. Most TVs do support recording but there are no series link or advance options like there are with the Humax, so functionality is limited usually to one off recordings or old fashioned timers.
     
  3. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Thanks for the advice, that's as i thought. At the moment we only watch SD channels since neither the humax or tv has HD. Would find it hard to give up the convenience of recording, and replacing TV and PVR is not possible at the moment.

    Just occured to me that we can perhaps get HD via the Now TV box?

    If we replaced TV would we be able to watch HD directly via TV tuner but record via the PVR?
     
  4. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Passing the aerial through a 9300T will not stop the TV receiving a HD signal. In any case a cheap TV splitter can avoid using the loop through in the first place.

    Labgear 19132R/S 2 Way Metal T Splitter

    The answer to your last question is yes. Using the splitter will mean they both have a seperate feed, but in case if you continue to use the loopthrough it won't stop HD as the pvr will passthrough any UHF carriers it gets on the input to the output. If the pvr has a low power sby mode using the splitter can allow you to save some electricity by turning it on.

    If you buy a Freeview-HD TV with recording capability you keep the Humax pvr for SD recordings and record in HD to a usb drive connected to the TV.

    A few TV's have twin tuner capability and can record like your Humax pvr from the epg.

    Single tuner TV's you can normally only watch the channel being recorded, but while recording you can watch the 9300T.

    eg

    Buy Sony Bravia KD49XE7073 LED HDR 4K Ultra HD Smart TV, 49" with Freeview Play & Cable Management, Silver | John Lewis

    Note with certain TV's (You would have to check if the above is one), you can watch Blue Planet II in 4K HDR from BBC iplayer.


    Blue Planet II comes to iPlayer in 4K HDR
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  5. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    Maybe take a look at the Samsung deal I posted earlier. It's also one of the manufacturers that has NowTV onboard, not all do. That would leave enough from your budget to pick up a used Humax HDR Fox T2 which would give you HD recording. Or possibly a BT T2100, also made by Humax.
     
  6. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I personally wouldn't bother trying to record directly on the TV, you need an external HDD connected anyway and the functionality isn't going to be fantastic.

    I agree with @Crocodile above, for purely watching freeview you want a TV that gives you the best performance for that content which is SD and HD and that will be a model like the Samsung FHD ones at around your budget.

    You could get an UHD model which will of course give you the ability to accept a HDR/UHD signal, but I see little point if your main TV watching is freeview and there are currently no plans to roll out UHD TV channels.

    Now TV, its the same story really as freeview. Whilst a sky box and a sky subscription will give you FHD or UHD if you pay extra, now TV is limited to 720p which is actually worse quality than the freeview HD channels.

    So a TV like the Samsung M5 series and a new DVB T2 compatible Humax will do a job for you whilst keeping those old channels looking decent.
     
  7. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    That's all really helpful advice, and greatly appreciated. I hadn't considered a splitter, but that seems a really simple solution. Presumably then i'd use the TV EPG for day-to-day use and only the Humax when recording.

    Link to Sony Bravia looks good, and the model is listed in BBC list of those that can accept the Blue Planet material. I assume you think that a good option for the budget i've got available?
     
  8. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Thanks, that looks like a bargain. I hadn't appreciated that not all smart TVs had NOW on board, so it's a worthwhile consideration. The other half has just had the measuring tape out and declared a 55" too big, so might not be able to go for this model.

    Checked out the HD humax too and that looks like a good solution too. I'm still off work tomorrow, so i'm hopeful of getting something sorted then.
     
  9. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    Make sure she's not measuring 55" across! The 49" is £30 more from Co-Op so the 55" is better value. Although someone did report seeing the 49" in Asda for £376, so worth a look in your local.

    Also consider wall mounting if that will help you go bigger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  10. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Oh yes, she was measuring diagonally! It was a bit of a pantomime, and i'd a fair go at persuading her, and whilst i agree with you, it just wouldn't be worth the grief!
     
  11. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    To make life easier, the 55" inch Samsung is 124cm wide. If you think that would fit OK then it would be a shame if you ordered a 49 but they sent a 55 by "mistake". ;)
     
  12. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    It depends on the TV, my panasonic TV has twin Freesat+ (G2 epg) and Twin Freeview+ tuners. It records from the Freeview and the G2 Freesat TV epgs. It has Series and Accurate recording and will record two at once in any combination to a usb drive. Above the op's budget though. It's near impossible to not buy a UHD model these days, without buying a older model.
     
  13. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    £550.00 is an excellent price for a 4K HDR model. It's available at £539:00 with a 5 year warranty from John Lewis. I would ask them if NOW TV is one of the Apps. As already said the included apps vary with the model. Netflix is commonly included and has content up to 4K (4K is a bit more expensive at around £10,00/month) and even for HD has superior content to NOW TV which is limited to 720P resolution (1280 x 720). Like NOW TV there is no contract you can opt in and out and change your package as you want.

    Search the Full Netflix UK Catalogue - NewOnNetflixUK

    I have Amazon Prime and Netflix, Netflix has a lot more content.
     
  14. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Thanks, i'm going to go in to JL this afternoon and have a look. Similair price , £519, at JL is Samsung 49MU6400. It has NOW TV built in. Is it worth considering too?
     
  15. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    That may be but if the OP is still going to be watching SD, it's going to look dreadful on a 4k set.
     
  16. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Depends on the distance viewed from and what the actual source resolution is. 720 x 576 and 704 x 576 should not be that bad, 544 x 576 is dire on any TV. Buying a HD TV now isn't very future proof and considering the age of the 9300T (which itself upscales to 720p using it's HDMI output) isn't likely to be usable for very much longer.

    They have now fallen to the same sort of prices as HD models, and 4K streamed content is much more widely available - You Tube, Netflix and guessing BBC iplayer won't be far behind.

    These models already struggle with the number of channels now on Freeview. And in the next few years it's likely that we will all need DVB-T2 capable kit.

    As the model is available at John Lewis, pretty sure they will demo with a SD source.
     
  17. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Ask JL to demo BBC 1-SD on both. Does the Samsung 49MU6400 support both variants of 4K-HDR (ie will it play the iplayer Blue Planet 2 in 4K-HDR version, the BBC have opted for a different system). As Iplayer is likely to be good source of 4K, if not that would rule it out for me.
     
  18. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    As @Dodgexander has often said, I think trying to future-proof is largely futile. Especially as far as the BBC is concerned as their track record with radio streams shows. Constantly changing & rendering kit obsolete or requiring software updates, that may or may not come.

    Surely if you're sittiing far enough away for SD content to look OK on 4k then there's not much point having it in the first place? I recently tried a budget 55" Philips 4k & at 10', all SD Freeview content was dreadful.
     
  19. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    alhambra2 you don't by any chance have access to a satellite dish or if on a communal system a screwed outlet that looks like this ?

    British General 1-Gang F-Type Satellite Socket White | Satellite Sockets | Screwfix.com

    If so you can use this to extend your options, many TV's have a satellite tuner. You can also get a single tuner Freesat+ box that records to a usb drive for a lot less than a twin tuner model. You could use one of these alongside your 9300T.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  20. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    I wouldn't class Phillips as a reasonable TV. Like many of these makers they mostly sell re-badged Chinese or Turkish poor quality TV's. Guessing HD wasn't that hot either. 4K streaming is here now, and the OP has the opportunity to see for himself how SD looks.

    As for streamed radio and other apps you are far better off with a decent android device like a smart phone or tablet. They get constant updates.
     
  21. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    alhambra2 do you have a smartphone or tablet ? If so what Operating System and Version does it have ? It's very possible you can use this with a new TV and Now TV with a tiny plug in device called a chromecast.
     
  22. RBZ5416

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    HD was fine, it was the upscaling of SD that was the problem. I believe that will be an issue with any 4k TV around this price point unless, as I said, you're sitting so far away as to render 4k pointless anyway.

    I think you're missing the point. What I'm saying is that a TV that meets the BBC spec today may well not meet the BBC spec next week/month/year because the spec may change. Their Internet radio streams being a perfect example.

    He already has a small plug in device in the NowTV box that he wanted to do away with. ;)
     
  23. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    It's not so small it's a box, a chromecast is much smaller and is easily hidden behind a TV or even in a cupboard. It is controlled by WiFi not infra red and it has a myriad other uses. It's the OP's better half that wants to get rid presumably because it's a bit of an eyesore. You can use it for instance to view You Tube content or listen to radio using your TV speakers. I have one connected to one of my AV receivers HDMI inputs (and there is a 4K version as well). I use it cast movies from my phone in full 1080p some also with 5.1 sound at the push of a button to my home cinema setup. Also works with netflix.

    You aren't that conversant with 21st century technology apparently.

    And I haven't missed the point even older Android phones and tablets have the latest version of BBC Iplayer radio and iplayer as well.
     
  24. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Hi, i have a 5 year old ipad which is quite slow now and a sumsung s7 with latest version of android. Im not always at home so id prefer not to have to rely on my phone for everyone elses viewing. Just heading into shops to have a look at different models.
     
  25. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Hi I have the same phone. The ipad is likely to work with NOW TV and a Chromecast which I am sure you will find very handy with your phone.

    Chromecast review | TechRadar

    Chromecast Ultra review | TechRadar
     
  26. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    I have a Chromecast thanks so your barb is pointless.

    So perhaps the OP should stick to watching TV on his phone also? The point remains that many who bought "future proof" Internet radios subsequently had issues with BBC streams because the BBC changed those streams. Exactly the same possibility exists with their 4k stream which let's not forget, currently stands at one programme.

    But given your turn down Obnoxious Alley, I'm out unless asked a question by the OP.
     
  27. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Now you are being stupid. Who want's to watch TV on a phone when you can watch in Full-HD on a large screen TV ?

    Not aware of any internet streaming statiions I can't listen to on my phone or tablet and not transfer to my sound system. That kind of makes them pretty future proof.

    If you imagine the BBC are going to launch their flagship 4K content in glorious HDR quality and then shortly render all newer kit incapable of using it, that in itself is so unlikely as to be laughable.

    It's true that there are many items of kit that the first genersation of iplayer doesn't work on. My Foxsat-HDR is one of those but it worked for over 15 years from 2008 and by the time it became obsolete there was dozens of cheap alternatives.

    If you run out of arguments making ridiculous suggestions kind of says everything.

    The BBC aren't the only source of 4K content, nor the only source of free 4K content. As the OP pays for NOW TV and can get 4K from Netflix at the same price it's clearly a obvious alternative.

    As you have a chromecast, surprised you didn't suggest it as a alternative to the Now TV box.

    Not exactly helpful was it ?

    All I have done is try and help with alternatives, all you have done is re-iterate the same opinion based on a single experience based on Phillips 4K set that Phillips sold a controlling interest to a Chinese firm a long time ago. Video scaling technology has advanced a lot in recent years as has digital tv encoders. It's likely the latest 4K sets will make a much better job of handling SD,

    Not exactly a very reasoned argument.

    The OP has the opportunity to make his own judgements. Re-iterating your point of view over and over is frankly not helping the OP.

    He may or not agree that SD looks terrible on a 4K set, that's entirely up to him. It will be interesting to see what he thinks after actually trying it out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  28. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Been to Currys and JL this afternoon. Both said tgey didnt have aerial connection to show SD content.
    In Currys they had sony XE 7002 on display but not the 7073. A tvs wrre showing same looped HD content. To my eyes the Sony seemed sharper than the other similair priced sets. The Samsung was miles awsy fro. SONY so couldnt see them side by side.
    Went to JL and no opportunity to view standard TV signal. Again the Sony and Samsung were at opposite ends of store. The Sony looked good. I spoke to Sony rep who told me they'd done a lot of development of upscaling technologies. He also demonstrted the interface, which seemed a bit clunky compared to Samsung Tizen. He also showed me next TV up which has Android operating system which was much better, and explained that this would be updatex regularly and would most likly get NOW in update later in tge year. The model was 49XE8005 and at £629 is over budget.
    Ive now seen the samsung 6400 on line for £450 which looks like a bit of a bargain.

    Gonna sleep on it, but will probably get the 6400 or wait another month or 2 to see if the Sony drops nearer to 550.

    Thanks everyone for help so far.
     
  29. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Which Panasonic do you own? My Panasonic DX902 has dual sat and antenna tuners but there is no series link or anything like that, only old fashioned timers. I can make one off recordings and time recordings but not series like you can on a dedicated PVR.

    Philips don't use re-badges, they make their own TVs.

    @alhambra2 I hate throwing a spanner in the works but I wouldn't consider the Samsung or Sony at that size, it seems like you met a Sony salesman.

    I also think for your uses you're going to find better value in a FHD model instead.

    I can tell you right now they do not. There is only so much you can work with, its far worse with higher compressed content than DVDs but UHD models are just awful upscaling SD TV. In respect of upscaling HD stuff, its usually fine.
     
  30. alhambra2

    alhambra2
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    Thanks. He was a Sony "expert" rather than salesman. From reading your recomendations elsewhere a 50inch panel may offer better value like samsung 6120? The recomendation from crocodile was a 55inch which was too large, but i found a 49 inch version of same set, UE49M5520, for £339. Maybe thats an economic interim option for a few years until i've moved on to higher quality sources!
     

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