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Upgrade to Yamaha RX-V2500 - help appreciated

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by mardale, Apr 4, 2005.

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  1. mardale

    mardale
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    Hi all,

    It's about time I upgraded my Marantz SR4200 and have been very tempted by the thread on the cheap German Yamaha imports but I would like your opinions on whether it's overkill or not.

    I use a converted garage as a cinema, 4m X 3m with a Panasonic 700 projector and these:

    Mission M73I fronts
    Mission M70I rears
    Mission M7C1I centre (willing to upgrae this if necessary)
    Ruark Log-Rhythm subwoofer

    The Marantz fills the room adequately so is the 130wpc from the Yamaha going to be rediculous?

    Any advice from those who have the RX-V2500 already, know better or have a more suitable suggestion for under £500 would be really appreciated.

    Matthew :thumbsup:
     
  2. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    For about £500 i very much doubt it could be beaten. The more power really cemets the speakers rather than driving them to hard, so the bass should be tighter and the rest should just sing, especialy as the yam will have better codecs than your current marantz.
     
  3. Harry T2

    Harry T2
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    You shouldn't associate power with "loudness".
     
  4. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    For an ideal system with 100% efficency then i think it's said that you need 10x the power to get double the volume, not sure how true this is, but to a certain extent you would have to increase the power by a tremedious amount to notice a big difference.

    More power can simply have more control especialy at the lower frequencies.
     
  5. Harry T2

    Harry T2
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    I would vote for overkill, given the reluctance to upgrade your speakers

    While the Marantz is ready to be "retired", I am unsure of your reason for an upgrade. What has attracted the Yamaha to you (other than price). Do you need the 7 channels, the latest decoding formats, the automatic setup, improved stereo ability?

    I would be more inclined to suggest a lower entry Yamaha, that has pre-outs and consider a possible 3 channel power amp upgrade in the future.

    If you are happy to stay at 5.1, a quick browse through the 2nd hand and ex-demo's might provide a better option.

    As a general rule of thumb, you require double the power to increase your sound levels by 3dB. Speaker efficiency rating has more influence of the "loudness". Sound levels do have logarithm properties so you do need to 10x the power to double the sound level.
     
  6. Helicon

    Helicon
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    Having used an RXV-2400, i can recommend it's replacement thoroughly. Whether anyone thinks the speakers are up to it or not, the Mission's will sound better with a better amplifier. In some respects it may be overkill, but at least you'll be getting the best from your Mission's, and the amp will also survive a speaker upgrade if you change your mind.
    The quality of this amp will outshine it's cheaper brothers, and with the extra setup options, you have the possibility of a much better sounding system.
    Yamaha amps have a lot of power on tap, and there's something about their presentation that seems so much better than most of the competition. If you can get a 2500 for £500, go for it, nothing else will touch it! And if you can use the 7.1, it's well worth it :)
     
  7. Harry T2

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    Not going to argue with you Helicon. The Mission’s would be very “happy” with the RXV-2500.

    Someone has quoted an Arcam AVR-200 at 400 notes. This would also make the Mission’s very happy and is overkill. It would also improve the stereo ability, which is not much of a concern.

    Also, the RXV-750 is quoted at sub £300. This currently is more than adequate for Mardale’s speakers. Also, a 2nd hand Power Amp could be added at a later stage to provide the better quality amplification or upgradeability following a speaker purchase.

    The above are just meant as examples of what is possible, and other alternatives/combinations are possible. Determining the current and future needs will help simplify the matter.
     
  8. mardale

    mardale
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    Many thanks for all your help so far :smashin:

    I understand about power vs. loudness now, so that's put my mind at rest on that score.

    I was attracted to the Yamaha because I have the Yamaha DVX-S60 in my kitchen and the Yamaha RXV350 coupled with the wife-friendly Yamaha NSP100 speaker package in my lounge and feel that they are well integrated with a clean sharp natural believable sound. Plus of course the price ;)

    The cinema is a purpose built and dedicated room so I have no issues about installing another two speakers for 7.1, but does anyone have an opinion about whether this is worth doing? If the track is 5.1 then surely the amp is creating images the director never intended to be there. Is it really worth doing?

    I've heard only good things about the automatic set up and am inclined to lean that way too. I would much rather be watching and listening than tweaking so anything that helps get you started is surely a good thing.

    I do listen to two channel audio, but the room is predominantly for movies so that should be the focus for the amp.

    I suspected that the Mission/Yahama pairing would be overkill, but I am thinking about the longer term as well and as Helicon puts it I would at least get the best from the speakers until I could afford to upgrade them.

    I do feel that the centre channel is suffering quite badly at the moment. This is partly going to be down to the amp, but I don't think the current speaker is up to the job - could anyone suggest a replacement that would suit the other speakers and do justice to the 2500?

    Thanks again for you help.

    Matthew
     
  9. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    I'm using a 75c at the moment and that is good, there are plenty on the classifieds at the moment, otherwise for an upgrade and sticking with mission to tonaly match you'd be looking at either the 77c or the 78c. I think the 75 and 78 are more expensive series but all of these are no longer manufactured.
    You could look at the m5c and the v6c as well but I thought they looked a bit weedy in comparision to the others mentioned, but have never heard them.
     
  10. Harry T2

    Harry T2
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    You will be very happy with the Yamaha.

    Now to put another damper on the works, I would live with the Mission centre until you upgrade the fronts as well (unless you could locate one of the centre speakers gazbarber mentions 2nd hand).
     
  11. Ninjaman

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    All I would say is audition before you buy. This is based on my personal experience with my own setup at home.

    I recently bought the RXV2500 imported from Germany and sold it. There is alot of things that i liked about the Yamaha, mainly the list of features, surround modes (too many to list) the look, auto calibration (2mins all done) of speakers, on-screen menu, the focus of centre channel and audio delay. On the downside: the sound quality more so in stereo or multi-channel music and remote control (blacklight).

    I vigorously tested the Pioneer 2011 & AX5 and yammy's 2500 over a week and IMO yamaha was inferior in sound quality.

    From the tests, I found that when in 5.1/7.1 the yammy''s playback was very edgy and lacking in control. Though initially I was impressed with its all out attacking nature with all material it got a bit tiresome to my ears. The Yamaha didnt have warmth, power with control and 3-dimensional enveloping sound of the pioneers. Surprisingly, the yamaha is rated at 130W per channel however this seemed the other way round during the tests. Maybe the pioneers has better internal amps or Air Studios tuning. Secondly, I was able to bi-amp my front speakers with both my pioneers and with only biwire with yamaha (no sound difference). With the yamaha there is front effects speakers also, however, you cant connect sound back channels at the same time.

    When I connected the biamp the fronts on pioneer the difference in sound quality is astounding. Even my girlfriend was able tell difference with in stereo, 5.1 DD, 5.1 DVD audio and 5.1 SACD etc and preferred the pioneers. However, due to its price point the yamaha will always be a favourite, but not for me. My local dealer always say that the newer av amps dont necessarily guarantee a better sound performance.
     
  12. rudy

    rudy
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    Interested in your posts about arcam for 400 quid and the yammy imports.. could you fill me in?
     
  13. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Hyper fi also have the pioneer 2014 in super cheap although they probably "don't have any in stock".
     
  14. Harry T2

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  15. rudy

    rudy
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    hyperfi only have the 1014 at 400 quid for new in box.
    Superfi are doing the 2014 for 500 notes.

    hyperfi says the only difference between the two is dvi input on 2014.
     
  16. Harry T2

    Harry T2
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  17. rudy

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    Thanks Harry.

    I will listen to both yammy and pio today
     

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