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Upgrade from Rel Stadium II

peopleIknow

Active Member
I've had my Rel Stadium II sub for about 7-8 years, nothing wrong with, and I'm more than happy with it's performance, however reading recent posts there's some new manufacturers around now which are receiving lots of positive posts, so my question is how does the Stadium compare to these new breads.

When I bought it the only way to up-grade was to spend more money (a lot to get a small return), it that still the case or have these new manufactures managed to produce better subs for the same or less ( paid £1100 for real wood veneer).

I know I will need to go and check these subs out personally, but your thoughts on whether I even need to charge would be appreciated.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
I think you will find the £400 plus subs nowdays will be able to offer you a serious performance jump, usual names apply.
 

Steve N

Distinguished Member
DTSDOLBY said:
I've had my Rel Stadium II sub for about 7-8 years, nothing wrong with, and I'm more than happy with it's performance, however reading recent posts there's some new manufacturers around now which are receiving lots of positive posts, so my question is how does the Stadium compare to these new breads.

When I bought it the only way to up-grade was to spend more money (a lot to get a small return), it that still the case or have these new manufactures managed to produce better subs for the same or less ( paid £1100 for real wood veneer).

I know I will need to go and check these subs out personally, but your thoughts on whether I even need to charge would be appreciated.
I had a Rel Stadium III which I paid £1,500 for. I thought I was happy with it until I listened to an SVS PB12/2. The difference was incredible.
I ended up managing to buy an SVS PB12 Ultra/2 from another forum user which is the best sub I have ever heard.
My advise would be to have a listen to some other subs and then decide.
 

peopleIknow

Active Member
Nic Rhodes said:
I think you will find the £400 plus subs nowdays will be able to offer you a serious performance jump, usual names apply.

Hi Nic, thanks for the reply, but can you qualify your comments, what do these new subs offer the my old Rel doesn't. The Rel was quoted as being able to drop down to 16Htz, do they go lower !!!.

Sorry if I'm being a bit think but I've not followed the developments in the sub market, but I remember when I bought the Rel it was a case of the bigger the box & driver the more air you could push the better the sub, what's changed.
 

chrisgeary

Well-known Member
a lot has changed in the amplification and drivers department. coming from a REL Strata III to an SVS 20-39PC+ and PB12+, I can say that whilst the Strata is no match for your stadium, the difference between the two, for me, was a massive improvement in

- depth (the strata could not reach below 20hz and at moderate volumes it would distort easily)
- control (the strata struggled at moderate volumes and never truly sounded accurate, the SVS is controlled and accurate at any volume, even at high volumes)
- distortion (the strata could not deliver at -10db on some movies, the SVS delivers at -5db with ease)

Drivers seem to be more solid when you tap on them. Class D amps are capable of delivering awesome levels of power.
A sub that can deliver 108db of SPL into a 4.5m x 3.6m room at -5db cleanly is really something to not only hear, but feel!

Oh and the PB12 can be tuned to 12hz and give real in room response to 10hz at the expense of 2 or 3 db of overall sound pressure.

admittedly the SVS PB12 is an £850 sub. the same level of performance can be had from its cylinder cousin the 20-39PC+, around £500 S/H. I'm told the SVS PB10 is also excellent for under £500 new.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
DTSDOLBY said:
Hi Nic, thanks for the reply, but can you qualify your comments, what do these new subs offer the my old Rel doesn't. The Rel was quoted as being able to drop down to 16Htz, do they go lower !!!.

Sorry if I'm being a bit think but I've not followed the developments in the sub market, but I remember when I bought the Rel it was a case of the bigger the box & driver the more air you could push the better the sub, what's changed.


the 16hz figure is in their dreams I am afraid and not what you will get under normal conditions. [Look for outside testing of subs to give you the true indication of their abilities (no walls). There are several group around the world now doing this for the internet aware.] I have a Stentor (model up) and it certainly doesn't do 16 Hz at any reasonable level. Any sub will need to reproduce frequencies at the level you want at low distortion and this is where the now competition just does it much better I am afraid. SVS, BK, Velodyne, Paradigm etc etc. Things have just moved on.

Drivers are better now much better than your ?volt? unit. Amps are nuch bigger (class D and all that) and many inits have servo 'driving'. [search engine if you don't understand that]. It means you will be able to get much better performance from smaller boxes.

and what Chris said above.

remember ultimate extension may not be what you are after but quality of what you get from the sub.
 

peopleIknow

Active Member
Nic Rhodes said:
the 16hz figure is in their dreams I am afraid and not what you will get under normal conditions. [Look for outside testing of subs to give you the true indication of their abilities (no walls). There are several group around the world now doing this for the internet aware.] I have a Stentor (model up) and it certainly doesn't do 16 Hz at any reasonable level. Any sub will need to reproduce frequencies at the level you want at low distortion and this is where the now competition just does it much better I am afraid. SVS, BK, Velodyne, Paradigm etc etc. Things have just moved on.

Drivers are better now much better than your ?volt? unit. Amps are nuch bigger (class D and all that) and many inits have servo 'driving'. [search engine if you don't understand that]. It means you will be able to get much better performance from smaller boxes.

and what Chris said above.

remember ultimate extension may not be what you are after but quality of what you get from the sub.

Hi Nic, thanks for the explanation, I will do some further research as you suggest. I note the you have the Stentor, how does this compare to the newer subs : Are you saying that were once Rel lead the pack they are now well behind, or are Rel's higher end models still able to hold their own ?
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
I think there are better subs than the current RELs for much less money. Re a few years ago, there were also better subs available but they were not well distributed in the UK, where the REL was. I think the biggest difference is the better knowledge of consumers re subs. 5 years ago, there were a handful of people in the 'know', now this site is full of them!! AV has also serious taxed subs where as hifi were relative beign in comparison. How many guitars get to 20 Hz!!
 

peopleIknow

Active Member
Nic Rhodes said:
I think there are better subs than the current RELs for much less money. Re a few years ago, there were also better subs available but they were not well distributed in the UK, where the REL was. I think the biggest difference is the better knowledge of consumers re subs. 5 years ago, there were a handful of people in the 'know', now this site is full of them!! AV has also serious taxed subs where as hifi were relative beign in comparison. How many guitars get to 20 Hz!!

Why have the magazines (home Cinema Choice the obvious one) not reviewed the likes of these SVS subs and more importantly carried out group tests so we can see the differences. It's always the same manufacturers products being reviews.

Can you point me to any sites that have carried out reviews and or group tests ?
 

chrisgeary

Well-known Member
What Hifi have reviewed the SVS PB-10. They didn't think too highly of it but many members here disagree. There is a thread about it somewhere. Magazines hadn't reviewed SVS subs previously as they were only available directly from the US based manufacturer. They are now sold via a UK distributor making them much more accessible to the UK market.

Plenty of magazines run group tests too. I always take their findings with a pinch of salt. Reviews are one person, or a small group of peoples subjective opinions based on their own 'reference system', their own personal tastes, their own room acoustics - NONE of which are particularly relevant to our own living rooms, tastes etc.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Subs are very difficult things to review and operate correctly. The testing of these is best done either in a special chamber or ground plane (outside). The 'one reviewer' reviews where they stick the sub into one room I think help few people as all you are looking at are the room resonances. If a sub is to be tested then it needs to be done in many locations and differenct sized and shaped rooms else the sub review is just a tiny snap shot of what the sub is capable of. The What Hifi reviews of subs do not fill me with confidence, like many other magazine reviews on subs.
 

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