Upgrade from MA Bronze to Silver?

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Floorstanders need a lot of room to breath and are suited to larger rooms. If you have the money for a pair of silver floorstanders, then look at the gold 100’s as an alternative instead. It’s what I upgraded to and will be much better suited to a room of your size.
I definitely understand your logic. It was one of the reasons I went for standmounts. I demo'd the Silver 200's and the sound seemed thin & definitely lacking in bass, compared to the Silver 100's. This actually surprised me a bit, considering the 200's had an extra bass driver. This demo was in store side by side rather than at home.

But then I'd also want to upgrade the centre speaker to match, which is another 1k on top or around £500 more than the Silver C350!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I think @StefanBFC listened those against 300s when he was making the decision. For movies the 100s with stands should be great option at 650£ vs. 1250£ for 300s so if one doesn´t listen music much then the price difference is bit hard to swallow.

The move to Golds isn´t cheap with the center channel costing lot more. Is the ribbon transducer best for movies when listened loud? Some older Golds got bit tiring/overly bright what was mentioned in review when pushed. But they do make changes each generation..

 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
I think @StefanBFC listened those against 300s when he was making the decision. For movies the 100s with stands should be great option at 650£ vs. 1250£ for 300s so if one doesn´t listen music much then the price difference is bit hard to swallow.

The move to Golds isn´t cheap with the center channel costing lot more. Is the ribbon transducer best for movies when listened loud? Some older Golds got bit tiring/overly bright what was mentioned in review when pushed. But they do make changes each generation..


It was the tweeter in the silver 8’s which made me want to upgrade to gold. I found the silvers had excellent SQ, but after an hour of listening to music they were too fatiguing and I was having to stop. This is not the case with the golds, I can now listen for hours no problem (75-80db ish at MLP). Throw in slightly better clarity and detail and it’s a winner if you don’t have a big space to fill.

But yes, the gold centre is not cheap. When I very first got the golds I ran them with the silver centre and the soundstage was fine, perfectly acceptable. Then when the buyer of my silver 8’s was round I ended up unexpectedly selling him the silver centre too. This led to me running a phantom centre for a year until I could buy the gold centre. But it was totally worth it.
 

Gaz020

Active Member
Floorstanders need a lot of room to breath and are suited to larger rooms. If you have the money for a pair of silver floorstanders, then look at the gold 100’s as an alternative instead. It’s what I upgraded to and will be much better suited to a room of your size.
TBH I think the golds are just too much for what I want to spend. I can potentially get a good C150 for about £450 but it's a different finish and I would potentially end up with 3 different ranges of speaker in the same setup, but I am a little tempted.

When you say floorstanders are better in larger spaces, do you mean for rooms larger than mine? In which case you are saying stand mount/ bookshelves are better suited?
 

Gaz020

Active Member
Just a further thought from my last post, how would a latest gen gold C150 compare to a silver C350?
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
TBH I think the golds are just too much for what I want to spend. I can potentially get a good C150 for about £450 but it's a different finish and I would potentially end up with 3 different ranges of speaker in the same setup, but I am a little tempted.

When you say floorstanders are better in larger spaces, do you mean for rooms larger than mine? In which case you are saying stand mount/ bookshelves are better suited?

Yes, your room is only a little bigger than mine and certainly not a huge open space to fill. So what I’m trying to say is, why not spend the money on a better quality standmount rather than floorstanders which you don’t need?

Lots of options to weigh up, decide which factors are most important to you. SQ, aesthetics, budget, family friendly etc.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
Just a further thought from my last post, how would a latest gen gold C150 compare to a silver C350?
Well it’s only a 2 way speaker, and ideally you want a 3 way for the centre, which the silver is. Technically you would think the gold would sound better due to the tweeter but I haven’t heard it so can’t really comment.

EDIT: You mean last gen? Because there only is the c250 in the current gold generation.
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
Just a further thought from my last post, how would a latest gen gold C150 compare to a silver C350?


If your talking latest gen Gold (ie 5th gen) as per the MA site its actually a C250 and is in fact a 3 way, but with a ribbon tweeter. The silver C350 has a dome tweeter, so they will have different sound signatures.

Or do you mean getting a second hand older Gen C150 Gold?
 

Gaz020

Active Member
@Marshall Mike, understood on the standmount Vs floorstanders. That was sort of my question earlier when I mentioned in an earlier post if the silver 50s would be fine as I have the sub for low end, rather than going for the floorstanders.

@Jester1066 I meant to say the latest c150 that MA made in the gold range:

 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
@Marshall Mike, understood on the standmount Vs floorstanders. That was sort of my question earlier when I mentioned in an earlier post if the silver 50s would be fine as I have the sub for low end, rather than going for the floorstanders.

@Jester1066 I meant to say the latest c150 that MA made in the gold range:

@Gaz020
Ah... Now I get ya buddy.

The C150 Gold is actually the centre from the discontinued 4th generation Gold range. The link shows these were produced from 2014-2018 and indeed are 2 way. It is extremely unlikely you'll get one brand new now, so will be looking at second hand market.

The current MA Gold lineup is the 5th Gen - the centre in this gen is the C250 - which is a 3 way speaker as described previously.

Hope this helps. One other difference of note between the current 6th Gen Silvers & 5th Gen Golds - the latter are 4 ohm speakers.

Your AVR will power 4 ohm speakers, but will run hotter. Also running a full set of 9 speakers, (regardless of their ohm rating) the watts per channel will be significantly less than the 2 channel figure quoted for the amp as that figure is split between all the speakers being driven.
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
To clear up any confusion, these are 3 way centres available currently from Monitor Audio:

Latest (6th Gen) Silver C350:

Latest (5th Gen) Gold C250:

Taken from Monitor Audio website 😊
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@Marshall Mike, understood on the standmount Vs floorstanders. That was sort of my question earlier when I mentioned in an earlier post if the silver 50s would be fine as I have the sub for low end, rather than going for the floorstanders.

@Jester1066 I meant to say the latest c150 that MA made in the gold range:


You don`t run the floorstanders full range and something like 20cm behind should be fine, although MA recommends 30-61cm for S300 and up to meter to side walls, but that is mainly for 2ch listening (full range) without room correction.

I wouldn`t pick any of the smaller center channels if possible. If the height is issue then the new Gold C250 is lower than Silver C350. Sadly it will cost lot more.

Silver 100 over the 50 if possible, so small price difference and would be lot more fun i can imagine. Highly praised here by AVF Editor (Best Buy award) and even the "bible" for many known as What Hifi loved em. Hometheaterreview used them as part of 5.1 Silver package.



 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
It was the tweeter in the silver 8’s which made me want to upgrade to gold. I found the silvers had excellent SQ, but after an hour of listening to music they were too fatiguing and I was having to stop. This is not the case with the golds, I can now listen for hours no problem (75-80db ish at MLP). Throw in slightly better clarity and detail and it’s a winner if you don’t have a big space to fill.

But yes, the gold centre is not cheap. When I very first got the golds I ran them with the silver centre and the soundstage was fine, perfectly acceptable. Then when the buyer of my silver 8’s was round I ended up unexpectedly selling him the silver centre too. This led to me running a phantom centre for a year until I could buy the gold centre. But it was totally worth it.

I heard that generation Silver 6s, but not that long. Still it would be hard to imagine them becoming harsh. But there is always different ears and feelings. I won`t doubt for second that the Golds wouldn´t be even more satisfying for 2ch listening and why not movies aswell, but yeah they aren´t cheap. That finish will give them some high end feel. The ebony finish looks stunning, work of art.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Silver 100 over the 50 if possible, so small price difference and would be lot more fun i can imagine. Highly praised here by AVF Editor (Best Buy award) and even the "bible" for many known as What Hifi loved em. Hometheaterreview used them as part of 5.1 Silver package.
@Gaz020

Fwiw: I auditioned the Silver 50's as well. Just to see if there was a difference between them and the 100's. There is and imo its definitely worth the extra to get the 100's over the 50's.

Edit: I do however use my system 50/50 between movies & music and plan on using the dual subs in both stereo & movie listening!
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
I heard that generation Silver 6s, but not that long. Still it would be hard to imagine them becoming harsh. But there is always different ears and feelings. I won`t doubt for second that the Golds wouldn´t be even more satisfying for 2ch listening and why not movies aswell, but yeah they aren´t cheap. That finish will give them some high end feel. The ebony finish looks stunning, work of art.

Yes it was the ebony finish I went with, it’s stunning.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Here's my two-penneth. Personally speaking I think the silver 300's would be a bit of an overkill for his room acoustically and aesthetically. Having the Bronze 2's in that strange configuration is not helping matters and indeed would make the sound a little weird and hollow. I actually use Silver 200's for surround and music in a similar sized room and got them for their small footprint and stability (the feet are excellent)
If you moved your tripod lamp and put the sub there and moved the plant, the 200's would sit nicely in that room, you will need a minimum of 10-12 inches from the rear wall or the bass good get a bit OTT but they would work well. Plugging the top ports in the 200's will give even better definition to the sound while plugging the bottom ports tightens the bass but reduces it considerably.
Someone mentioned about them sounding a bit thin compared with the 100's and 300's, that may be the case for music depending on amp and source but I find the bass to be very good with movies so much so I can't always be bothered to power up my sub (I send bass to both the sub and the silver 200's from the receiver) The silver 200's do project the upper mids exceptionally well and as such they work very well for surround sound applications. The tweeters are behind an aluminium plate so no kids are going to break them, the larger cones on the 200's are very robust and very rigid and you would have to push very hard on the cones to damage them (you can always leave the covers on when the kids have their friends round just in case)
As for the centre channel, It needs to be moved down, the current position is just too high. I would carry on using the bronze centre for now and upgrade as funds allow. The fact that they are all recent MA speakers will help and shouldn't cause the sound to be disjointed. I believe this would make a HUGE difference to the sound he is currently getting (after re-calibration of course)
 

Gaz020

Active Member
Morning all, thanks again for the further replies.
After the previous suggestion regarding the centre, I did actually move it down yesterday evening (will need to move the TV up a bit to create a big enough gap).
Having also purchased the Audyssey app, I got as far as running calibration but ran out of time, so will have a play later.
As I mentioned before it's funny really given how much attention I have paid the other speakers, the height of the centre never occurred to me. I think probably because all recommendations just state 'above or below the TV'.
It's an 80s house so ceiling is not particularly high, so completely take the point on separation from the Atmos speakers.

With regards to potentially replacing speakers, it looks like I could pick up a pair of used S200s for around £650 in matching walnut which is a little tempting. Or if I was to go for the standmount models, it seems pretty unanimous that the S100 sound better than the S50 for not much more money.
 

Gaz020

Active Member
I've attached the results of the correction for each speaker type (naturally the graphs appear very similar for respective left and rights), though I understand what the graphs are showing, I'm not sure how I use this information to improve the setup.
Audyssey has set the heights at 40Hz and fronts at 60Hz which doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I thinkt the suggestion was to change all to 80hz?

I had a very quick play earlier and can definitely notice an improvement with the centre lower already.
Screenshot_20210406_091824_com.dmholdings.AudysseyMultEq.jpg
Screenshot_20210406_091819_com.dmholdings.AudysseyMultEq.jpg
Screenshot_20210406_091815_com.dmholdings.AudysseyMultEq.jpg
Screenshot_20210406_091811_com.dmholdings.AudysseyMultEq.jpg
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Audyssey has set the heights at 40Hz and fronts at 60Hz which doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I thinkt the suggestion was to change all to 80hz?
Yep change all to 80hz. You may even want to try the 4 height speakers at 120hz.

You can increase the crossovers of the speakers, but do not to set them lower than what Audessey set/measured.

What did it set your fx's crossover to. I had my bronze fx set to 150hz. Also make sure all speakers are set to size "small", in the "speaker configuration" menu.

I assume that you set the physical crossover knob of your sub to 120 Hz or LFE prior to running calibration?
Make sure the "subwoofer mode" is set to LFE in the AVR settings.

Edit: Actually, my FX's were set to either 90 or 100Hz (choose whichever sounds best).
 
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Stu75

Active Member
@Stu75, again everyone seems to be saying the same thing which is what got me thinking about this in the first place! Is it the C150 or 350 that you have?
Sorry I should have been clearer.I picked up an older second hand silver 12i after going to hear it.
Its bigger than the bronze 5 it replaced and has a clearer/better output.

I have been thinking of maybe replacing it with a 350 but have recently replaced my MA sub with an SVS PB3000 so the fronts will be next on the list.
 

Chownie

Active Member
This thread has been great. Pretty similar to a question I was going to put on here. Upgraded to a Marantz 7013 last year and i'm running MA Bronze 2 and centre at the front that are getting on for twenty years old and a BK Monolith sub. I was looking at the Silver 200 and C150 but now think I may try out the Silver 100 with the C350 as i'm really happy with my Bronze but do want more so the Bronze will go to rear duties. So this has all been really helpful for myself!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Here's my two-penneth. Personally speaking I think the silver 300's would be a bit of an overkill for his room acoustically and aesthetically. Having the Bronze 2's in that strange configuration is not helping matters and indeed would make the sound a little weird and hollow. I actually use Silver 200's for surround and music in a similar sized room and got them for their small footprint and stability (the feet are excellent)
If you moved your tripod lamp and put the sub there and moved the plant, the 200's would sit nicely in that room, you will need a minimum of 10-12 inches from the rear wall or the bass good get a bit OTT but they would work well. Plugging the top ports in the 200's will give even better definition to the sound while plugging the bottom ports tightens the bass but reduces it considerably.
Someone mentioned about them sounding a bit thin compared with the 100's and 300's, that may be the case for music depending on amp and source but I find the bass to be very good with movies so much so I can't always be bothered to power up my sub (I send bass to both the sub and the silver 200's from the receiver) The silver 200's do project the upper mids exceptionally well and as such they work very well for surround sound applications. The tweeters are behind an aluminium plate so no kids are going to break them, the larger cones on the 200's are very robust and very rigid and you would have to push very hard on the cones to damage them (you can always leave the covers on when the kids have their friends round just in case)
As for the centre channel, It needs to be moved down, the current position is just too high. I would carry on using the bronze centre for now and upgrade as funds allow. The fact that they are all recent MA speakers will help and shouldn't cause the sound to be disjointed. I believe this would make a HUGE difference to the sound he is currently getting (after re-calibration of course)

The 300 model is not much larger with only 6" drivers so fairly normal sized towers. :) Maybe you got mixed it to 500 model (8" drivers with large cabinet).

S200: 885 x 165 x 240 mm
S300: 1000 x 185 x 300 mm

I think if some 20cm space can be left behind both would work very fine in that room. Use being 90% movies and crossed at 80hz, using Audussey which eq`s the response so there shouldn´t be any issue.

@Gaz020 that is really good price on the 200s, i got to admit they look better than bookshelf speakers with stands, but each to their own. As long as you pick the C350, all good! Raise the tv after you have bought it.. Lot bulkier than Bronze Centre.

Few Silvers here cheaper, but the 650£ is steal (don´t think too long!) as they are here 799£:

Also here is Silver 300 in rosenut for 1k£! Ah they have some marks on top right....

Just bump up the crossover settings as mentioned. I would limit the correction to around 200hz room transit frequency and listen does it sound better. Many are against correcting full range changing too much the "natural" sound of your speakers. Also turn the midrange compensation Off. I think there was few high frequency roll offs you could choose also.

The before graph gives some idea what is happening in your room, but the after is simulated - not really usefull as the real in-room response won´t be that flat. :)
 

Gaz020

Active Member
@Stu75 got it, the sub is one part I'm not planning on messing with for now. It was down to this forum originally that I steered away from the MA sub, i'd never heard of BK before I joined this forum!

@Gasp3621 I'm trying not to impulse buy anything, it's that balance between missing out on a good deal and buying the wrong thing!

I had another play with the setup at lunch and followed some of the advice of @Jester1066. LFE and sub settings were all fine.
What I ended up doing was bunging the ports of all speakers and running Audyssey again, then increasing the crossovers.
I'm definitely happier with the overall sound now, letting the sub do more of the low end work, and the overall sound is definitely tighter. At high volume you can feel the bass without it getting overly boomy.
Mid range also sounds less muddied.
Though I've tried bunging speakers in the past I've never rerun Audyssey and reset the crossovers.

I've been using the app but I have to say it's a bit painful in some ways. Though it's a little more customisable than through the AVR, the way you have to make a change and then send the config back to the AVR is slow. By the time I've made a tweak I've forgotten what it sounded like before! I'm no software developer, but it would make more sense to me if the app was changing the config on the AVR directlym
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I had another play with the setup at lunch and followed some of the advice of @Jester1066. LFE and sub settings were all fine.
What I ended up doing was bunging the ports of all speakers and running Audyssey again, then increasing the crossovers.
I'm definitely happier with the overall sound now, letting the sub do more of the low end work, and the overall sound is definitely tighter. At high volume you can feel the bass without it getting overly boomy.
Mid range also sounds less muddied.
Though I've tried bunging speakers in the past I've never rerun Audyssey and reset the crossovers.
Been out for the day with the kids - being that it's been soo long since we could!

@Gaz020 - So pleased the changes have had a positive effect on your sound. Since you have the Audessey App, I'd also see if switching off mid range compensation (via the app) has a positive effect.
 

Gaz020

Active Member
Hey, I've tried switching off the mid range compensation, I have to say I'm struggling to really notice any difference.

I think I might still be leaning to upgrading the fronts.
The 200s are potentially good in that I can bring the forward and either side of the TV cabinet as suggested in one of the earlier posts.
Having done a bit more reading about the centre, everything references the C350 as being paired with the 100 or 200s, where as the C150 would go with the 200s.
I'm just a little concerned about ending up with a mismatched setup, ie: bronze heights and surrounds, silver 200 floorstanders and C350, or will I definitely be better off with a C350 over the 150?
 

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