Upgrade from JVCDLA-HD350 - Is faux 4k worth it?

Marky1973

Well-known Member
Hi all, been away for a while just enjoying my 1080p set up with the JVCDLA-HD350 in a small room with an 84 inch screen. The room is painted dark purple with dark purple curtains to cover shelves when watching a film, so it's is pretty dark.

I recently acquired a Panasonic 820 4k player which made me start to think about an upgrade. I can't do DLP, really struggle with rainbows, so was looking at LCD and mainly the Epson range 7000, 7400 and 9400 but, from reading up on a lot of this it sounds like I am likely to be disappointed in terms of black level response on the lower two Epsons and, while the 9400 sounds great, that is stretching the budget a bit too as I will have to upgrade my AVR as well.

How do the 7000 and 7400 perform in the dark? And is it worth an upgrade at this point or am I better off just getting a new bulb for the JVC and maybe saving up for anativr 4k JVC later next year? The current bulb is at about 1700 hrs so it is past its best.

If I don't upgrade I presume I can still use the Panny820 if I run an hdmi direct and bypass the AVR and run an optical into the AVR for sound? Or have I been away too long that I have really got no idea about this stuff anymore.

The JVC is a wonderful beast and I don't see the point of an upgrade (even if it is 10 years old) only to be disappointed....

I dunno, maybe I am answering my own question... 😁
 

TarPot

Well-known Member
I can't speak for the Epsons, as I have no experience. But they come with a great reputation and I'm sure you wouldn't be disappointed. I would think (although don't know) that the black level would be at least on par with your JVC?

I was in the same position as yourself, and went to a JVC X7900, which was wonderful, and faux 4K. The black levels on this were amazing.

I've since moved to an N7 which is superb.

You can watch 4k films output at 1080p on your current JVC. But it's not ideal.
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
Yeah, I realise I'm overkilling with a 4k player, but I need a dedicated player (ps4 at moment) and hopefully it will do the job.

Would love an n7 but that is out of budget by a loooong way! 😁😁

I'm not convinced by what I have been reading about the 7000 and 7400 which is what pushed me to looking at the 9400 but, again, really stretching the budget.... Seems to me I might be better saving and waiting....keep my fingers crossed for price drops of clearance.... Which is how I got the HD350 in the first place.
 

TarPot

Well-known Member
Sounds like a good plan. I think a 2nd 7900 would do you too. Amazing machines.
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
Cheers, I'll have a look into those....
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
As you might know I went from HD350 to X35, X500 and finally X7500. I've improved my room along the way, but I think you already have a very good room set up anyway. What sort of aperture setting are you using with the HD350?

One of the things I've found with the newer models is that they are much brighter, so you can get away with closing the aperture more for the same brightness and gain more of the contrast advantage that way. By comparison my HD350 was running with the aperture near fully open (tweaked in the service menu) on a slightly smaller/higher gain screen than I use now. My X7500 for SDR viewing only needs the aperture at less than half open, even after 300 hours on the lamp. I'm very long throw too, so I don't gain the brightness boost by zooming much either.

No idea what a used X7500 goes for (probably best not to look I suppose :D), but if you find one within budget it might not be a bad shout. Or the X7900 as Tarpot says. With either you'll get the option of using the dynamic iris too, which personally I like for it's very deep fade to black...pumping on end credits is a small price to pay IMHO.

Good to see you back on the forums too. :smashin:
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Hi all, been away for a while just enjoying my 1080p set up with the JVCDLA-HD350 in a small room with an 84 inch screen. The room is painted dark purple with dark purple curtains to cover shelves when watching a film, so it's is pretty dark.

I recently acquired a Panasonic 820 4k player which made me start to think about an upgrade. I can't do DLP, really struggle with rainbows, so was looking at LCD and mainly the Epson range 7000, 7400 and 9400 but, from reading up on a lot of this it sounds like I am likely to be disappointed in terms of black level response on the lower two Epsons and, while the 9400 sounds great, that is stretching the budget a bit too as I will have to upgrade my AVR as well.

How do the 7000 and 7400 perform in the dark? And is it worth an upgrade at this point or am I better off just getting a new bulb for the JVC and maybe saving up for anativr 4k JVC later next year? The current bulb is at about 1700 hrs so it is past its best.

If I don't upgrade I presume I can still use the Panny820 if I run an hdmi direct and bypass the AVR and run an optical into the AVR for sound? Or have I been away too long that I have really got no idea about this stuff anymore.

The JVC is a wonderful beast and I don't see the point of an upgrade (even if it is 10 years old) only to be disappointed....

I dunno, maybe I am answering my own question... 😁

The only Epson you should be considering would be the 9400 as it's the only version with decent blacks but even then it won't match your HD350 as I reckon your PJ will have 3 times the contrast. What it will do is give you a serious light boost so you could change your screen to a grey one and increase it's black level and still have lumens to spare. It's HDR also works great with the UB820 and for the most part it's HDR slider will be set and forget cause the 820's internal DTM does a sterling job.

One thing the Epson will have over the others is a 5yr warranty, so you could buy second hand and still have upwards of 3 yrs warranty still left which is as good as you get with a new JVC or a single year if you can pick up a refurbished unit.

The Panasonic UB820 has it's only internal surround sound outputs so as long as your AVR has the corresponding inputs for Front L/R/Centre and Rear Surrounds you can use your existing AVR until times as you want to upgrade.

You didn't mention throw distance to the screen on an 84" screen the minimum throw distance on the Epson is 2.6M with a bit of wriggle room or 2.7M on the JVC N5.

The JVC N5 is a superior machine and offers the least hassle with HDR but it's a £6.5K RRP compared to the Epson 9400 at £2.5K and frankly the difference in performance isn't even close to 2.5 times the Epson. The DLA-X7900 has the best black levels of all of them and by some margin but it's not a hassle free HDR process compared to the others, in fact you will need a PC running MadVR which will only cover you for ripped Movies if you want to watch 4K HDR from the likes of Netflix then you'll need to find a further +£4K for a Lumagen.

The smart money would be on a 9400 but that's just my opinion.
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
As you might know I went from HD350 to X35, X500 and finally X7500. I've improved my room along the way, but I think you already have a very good room set up anyway. What sort of aperture setting are you using with the HD350?

One of the things I've found with the newer models is that they are much brighter, so you can get away with closing the aperture more for the same brightness and gain more of the contrast advantage that way. By comparison my HD350 was running with the aperture near fully open (tweaked in the service menu) on a slightly smaller/higher gain screen than I use now. My X7500 for SDR viewing only needs the aperture at less than half open, even after 300 hours on the lamp. I'm very long throw too, so I don't gain the brightness boost by zooming much either.

No idea what a used X7500 goes for (probably best not to look I suppose :D), but if you find one within budget it might not be a bad shout. Or the X7900 as Tarpot says. With either you'll get the option of using the dynamic iris too, which personally I like for it's very deep fade to black...pumping on end credits is a small price to pay IMHO.

Good to see you back on the forums too. :smashin:

Cheers Kelvin

I've still been lurking but enjoying the 350 so not feeling the urge to upgrade... Coupled with the pairing of Denon and Wharfedale on acoustics, I've been quite happy! 😁

Aperture? I have no idea now you ask, I don't think I've played around much with it for a while. I suspect it is more open than it was.... But that is the thing with the 350, it just works so well I've not had to fiddle much.

Sounds like SH will be the way to go, but I can take some time over that, whether I go with the 9400 or hold out for a JVC! 😁

I have a very small room so the throw is short... And on the edge of what the Zoom can cope with, so that is another concern with changing, I need to make sure it will fit the room!
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
The only Epson you should be considering would be the 9400 as it's the only version with decent blacks but even then it won't match your HD350 as I reckon your PJ will have 3 times the contrast. What it will do is give you a serious light boost so you could change your screen to a grey one and increase it's black level and still have lumens to spare. It's HDR also works great with the UB820 and for the most part it's HDR slider will be set and forget cause the 820's internal DTM does a sterling job.

One thing the Epson will have over the others is a 5yr warranty, so you could buy second hand and still have upwards of 3 yrs warranty still left which is as good as you get with a new JVC or a single year if you can pick up a refurbished unit.

The Panasonic UB820 has it's only internal surround sound outputs so as long as your AVR has the corresponding inputs for Front L/R/Centre and Rear Surrounds you can use your existing AVR until times as you want to upgrade.

You didn't mention throw distance to the screen on an 84" screen the minimum throw distance on the Epson is 2.6M with a bit of wriggle room or 2.7M on the JVC N5.

The JVC N5 is a superior machine and offers the least hassle with HDR but it's a £6.5K RRP compared to the Epson 9400 at £2.5K and frankly the difference in performance isn't even close to 2.5 times the Epson. The DLA-X7900 has the best black levels of all of them and by some margin but it's not a hassle free HDR process compared to the others, in fact you will need a PC running MadVR which will only cover you for ripped Movies if you want to watch 4K HDR from the likes of Netflix then you'll need to find a further +£4K for a Lumagen.

The smart money would be on a 9400 but that's just my opinion.

Yeah, as I mentioned to Kelvin, it's a short throw and the JVC is on full zoom to fill the screen... Which I know isn't ideal but it still gives a stunning picture.

I've not heard anything bad about the 9400, but I guess I have to be realistic about the budget. The AVR will need updating too and I love Denon... But I'm hearing there are issues with the current models. I might get a new bulb and then keep an eye out for SH options... There's no rush!
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Yeah, as I mentioned to Kelvin, it's a short throw and the JVC is on full zoom to fill the screen... Which I know isn't ideal but it still gives a stunning picture.

I've not heard anything bad about the 9400, but I guess I have to be realistic about the budget. The AVR will need updating too and I love Denon... But I'm hearing there are issues with the current models. I might get a new bulb and then keep an eye out for SH options... There's no rush!

For some reason the Epson works really well on the short throw as it's how I uses to have mine with I had the 100" screen which I was throwing from 3.08M away.

Both these images were from that setup and throw distance.

1F0544F2-4DE8-49D4-979D-BDCF7AC6BC7A.jpeg

04CA3B6D-875F-4E81-A6EE-577E8FC0C2EF.jpeg
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member

Luminated67

Distinguished Member

LOL well if that got you going then this might make you soil yourself 😂

882DF71C-49DC-4557-92E7-522DB624CFC1.jpeg


Grey screen material heighten both the blacks and colours.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
If going second hand,
I think smart money is 9300 (£1000) or JVC X5000 + HTPC with MADVR (£1000).

For that you get:
9300 gives you 99% of the PQ of the 9400, giving up the HDR slider for streamed content and video-games (where arguably without the HDR slider, it will be sub-optimal anyway).
JVC X5000 gives you the higher contrast image and black levels.

MADVR enabled HTPC gives you:
1. DTM for local content
2. Upscale all your content and basically be a Lumagen
3. Video player for 3D/2D content
4. Video stream box for Netflix, etc.
5. Web browser
6. Gaming machine
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
LOL well if that got you going then this might make you soil yourself 😂

View attachment 1420126

Grey screen material heighten both the blacks and colours.

Can you block people on here? 😁😁😁😁

That's a very nice image... I'm starting to think I need to upgrade the stuff around the projector and get everything ready to move a new one in..... My screen is a very basic slightly off white optima, so there may be gains to have there as well.....
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
If going second hand,
I think smart money is 9300 (£1000) or JVC X5000 + HTPC with MADVR (£1000).

For that you get:
9300 gives you 99% of the PQ of the 9400, giving up the HDR slider for streamed content and video-games (where arguably without the HDR slider, it will be sub-optimal anyway).
JVC X5000 gives you the higher contrast image and black levels.

MADVR enabled HTPC gives you:
1. DTM for local content
2. Upscale all your content and basically be a Lumagen
3. Video player for 3D/2D content
4. Video stream box for Netflix, etc.
5. Web browser
6. Gaming machine

Mmmm not so sure about the HTPC route, I'll need to look into that, but would prefer something that was a little easier to set-up, but good to have options to think about! 👍
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Mmmm not so sure about the HTPC route, I'll need to look into that, but would prefer something that was a little easier to set-up, but good to have options to think about! 👍


ease of use = get a 9400.
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
That does seem to be the sensible option..... Anyway, I have time to take, check out the January sales (if they are still a thing) and think up excuses for buying a projector!😁😁👍
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I have a very small room so the throw is short... And on the edge of what the Zoom can cope with, so that is another concern with changing, I need to make sure it will fit the room!

Depending on how tight it is, you might need to consider that the newer JVCs are a bit bigger. I can't remember if the depth is more as that could mean the lens is a tiny bit closer to the screen than your HD350. I've always been at the long end of zoom, so I've not had the issue of it being able to fill my screen, but I think the zoom range is very similar, if not the same between them. Definitely something to check though.
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
Depending on how tight it is, you might need to consider that the newer JVCs are a bit bigger. I can't remember if the depth is more as that could mean the lens is a tiny bit closer to the screen than your HD350. I've always been at the long end of zoom, so I've not had the issue of it being able to fill my screen, but I think the zoom range is very similar, if not the same between them. Definitely something to check though.

Yeah that's something else I've been thinking about, the Epsons are oriented differently and would probably allow a bit more distance... Its all very tight, I think the distance is. About 2.6m so very little flexibility....
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
For a small screen a old JVC X3 will kill the epson, however i would go with something like a JVC X500, the X5000 will be to bright and cant be closed down to work on small screens, for that you will need a X7000. The old 350 should still outperform the new Epson TW9400 in regard to contrast and pixel fill, only upgrade in the epson would be some motion processing , and then more light, which you wont need as i understand the setup.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Yeah that's something else I've been thinking about, the Epsons are oriented differently and would probably allow a bit more distance... Its all very tight, I think the distance is. About 2.6m so very little flexibility....

Can’t recall exact dimensions of both the Epson 9400 and N5 but I’m pretty sure the Epson is shorter plus it allows an additional 10cm shorter lens to screen distance so whilst one will allow you to keep your screen size the N5 I doubt will be an option.
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
For a small screen a old JVC X3 will kill the epson, however i would go with something like a JVC X500, the X5000 will be to bright and cant be closed down to work on small screens, for that you will need a X7000. The old 350 should still outperform the new Epson TW9400 in regard to contrast and pixel fill, only upgrade in the epson would be some motion processing , and then more light, which you wont need as i understand the setup.

The more I think about it now, the more I think sticking with the Hd350 with a new bulb and slowly upgrading around it seems like a better plan. Gives me time to save up a bit more and go for the 9400 maybe as a Christmas present to myself next year. 😁
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
Can’t recall exact dimensions of both the Epson 9400 and N5 but I’m pretty sure the Epson is shorter plus it allows an additional 10cm shorter lens to screen distance so whilst one will allow you to keep your screen size the N5 I doubt will be an option.

No you're right, was doing some more reading tonight and even the 9400 is bigger than the 350! And I thought the JVC was big! But it is oriented differently and, luckily only 200g heavier so it can be mounted where the JVC is, but it is another beast! 😁
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
What type and size is your screen?
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
What type and size is your screen?
It's a very old matt White optima (I think) pull down screen.... Think I got it off here for £40 in the classifieds..... So that might be something else worth looking at upgrading to a grey screen.
 

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