Upgrade from B&W620i

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Wow thank you for you very detailed reply. Great help.
I will look into that one as well.

Yes both my son and I were very surprised with the Rubicon 5. They sound great considering only 1 woofer and their more compact size. Although they are a larger cabinet that my b&w.
They do seem to fill my room with the great sound that I have been looking for.
It will be interesting to plug my b&w in maybe tomorrow and see how they compare. I imagine they will sound dull

I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the change. I’ll be very surprised if the B&Ws, good as they were, trouble the Rubicons. And even more surprised with a more suitable amp then the 6005.
 

mhitchcock

Member
Morning

Any thoughts on the Denon PMA 800e running the Rubicon 5 or the opticon 6?
It is a more powerful amp than my pm6005..

I'm currently running the Rubicon 5 with the Denon.
Had a listen to my son's zensor 7 last night next to the Rubicon just for a test. Results were interesting. Suffice to say I'm not that blown away with the difference between the zensor. I guess that's where a better amp may come in.

I thought they were ok. Obviously not the same as the Rubicon but ok.
We're going to try my son's opticon 2mk2 tonight. Going to look at position for a small sub but think it's a bit space limited.

Lots of different thought as I just sem to be going round in circles 🤔
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Morning

Any thoughts on the Denon PMA 800e running the Rubicon 5 or the opticon 6?
It is a more powerful amp than my pm6005..

I'm currently running the Rubicon 5 with the Denon.
Had a listen to my son's zensor 7 last night next to the Rubicon just for a test. Results were interesting. Suffice to say I'm not that blown away with the difference between the zensor. I guess that's where a better amp may come in.

I thought they were ok. Obviously not the same as the Rubicon but ok.
We're going to try my son's opticon 2mk2 tonight. Going to look at position for a small sub but think it's a bit space limited.

Lots of different thought as I just sem to be going round in circles 🤔

Again a great budget amp by all accounts. But not, I’d suggest, up to getting the best out of the Rubicons or Opticons.

It has around half the power of the Rotel into 4 Ohms.

Power availability is not the only determining factor in picking an amp, but it is important and especially so with the Dalis as they do dip quite low, a bit less than 4 ohms. So I’d always choose the amp that can better control the speaker at that point and the Rotel is clearly the better bet in this case.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, the Zensors precede Dalis new mid and bass drivers and their shiny new iron compound magnets.

They were replaced by the Oberon series, which is universally acclaimed as a superior speaker to its predecessor.

I’d expect the zensors to fall behind both the others when volume is applied and good recordings are used. And the more complex the music, the bigger the difference.
 

mhitchcock

Member
Again a great budget amp by all accounts. But not, I’d suggest, up to getting the best out of the Rubicons or Opticons.

It has around half the power of the Rotel into 4 Ohms.

Power availability is not the only determining factor in picking an amp, but it is important and especially so with the Dalis as they do dip quite low, a bit less than 4 ohms. So I’d always choose the amp that can better control the speaker at that point and the Rotel is clearly the better bet in this case.
Thank you again. You are certainly helping me with my decisions. As you can tell I'm all over the place with this.
I just want to make sure I make the right choice as regard upgrading my system. It is getting quite expensive, but I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.
 

mhitchcock

Member
Ps, the Zensors precede Dalis new mid and bass drivers and their shiny new iron compound magnets.

They were replaced by the Oberon series, which is universally acclaimed as a superior speaker to its predecessor.

I’d expect the zensors to fall behind both the others when volume is applied and good recordings are used. And the more complex the music, the bigger the difference.
We found exactly that last night when listening to the zensors but we're surprised with how they did perform as well. But yes the Rubicon were better as the music volume and detail in increased
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I don’t know if Yamaha AS801 can be bought new. Apparently it’s discounted. If you get it used I can’t imagine you are going to have problems driving the Dali speakers.

If sticking with Denon then the new Dra 800h has 100 watts in 8 ohm. But remember none of this amplifiers doubles the power in 4 ohm, only at dynamic peaks at 1 kHz. I could be wrong, but I believe I’ve read it online.

Still I believe both this amplifiers is going to suit the Dali speakers. 100 watts is a lot.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Rotel 1572 can perhaps be bought cheap new since the new MK2 version is on the market. This amplifier can drive most speakers on the market.

Expensive, yes but worth it. 120 watts in 8 ohm. Don’t remember how much power it has in 4 ohm. 200 watts I belive.

I am thinking of buying the Rotel 1572 my self. I we’ll probably lose some of the midrange magic the Marantz PM8006 has, but 120 watts. Yikes!
 

mhitchcock

Member
Rotel 1572 can perhaps be bought cheap new since the new MK2 version is on the market. This amplifier can drive most speakers on the market.

Expensive, yes but worth it. 120 watts in 8 ohm. Don’t remember how much power it has in 4 ohm. 200 watts I belive.

I am thinking of buying the Rotel 1572 my self. I we’ll probably lose some of the midrange magic the Marantz PM8006 has, but 120 watts. Yikes!
Thank you for your time and thoughts. I only got back from work till klate so could't reply before now. I have searched for the Rotel 1572 and think it is still a bit too much at 1500 or so.

I can get the pm8006 for around 1100 so that is an option. Also it would integrate with my existing Marantz 6006cd and nr1608. I don't mind if I do go non Marantz if it works out as a better system.

Trying to decide if I will go Rubicon 5 or Opticon 6mkii as well.

I am considering the Music Fidelity m3si as Paul7777x has suggested at a similar price as the pm8006. The ones above that are going a little to far north
 

mhitchcock

Member
I have found a good price music fidelity m3si so will probably go for that.
Hopefully that will be the right one. Thank you all for your help.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Not familiar with Music Fidelity, but as mentioned I own the Marantz PM8006. Liquid, warm sound which suits Dali bold treble.

Even though it only has “70 watts” it’s very powerful. No problems driving the Dali speakers. It has also 100 watts in 4 ohm.

Still you well get so many opinions regarding if 70 watts is enough. Many people like to buy amplifiers around 150-200 watts.

Good luck.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I believe if you are patient the Rotel 1572 might be available used online. It should cost half the price now or perhaps little bit more.

If you’re pretty happy with the amplifier right now, I would wait until you can get the amplifier you want. Like the Rotel.

Rotel makes their own transformer. Caps which can store a lot of current. Excellent for dynamic music.
 

mhitchcock

Member
I can’t imagine how you’ll be less than delighted with the MF, and at a great price.

Excellent choice I’d say. 👍
Let's hope so. I would like to say thank you for your help with all this.
It will be interesting having a listen to my b&w as well with the new amp.

What I am hoping for is a clear difference in the sound quality. i.e b&w and new amp and also Rubicon and new amp.

If my ears don't tell me I have had a big improvement then I will probably give up and return. Thing is my B&W were good speakers in their day and probably still are.

Luckily my son will be honest with me and say upgrade was worth it or not.

We'll see.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I’d hope your B&Ws would sound a bit better with the MF.

But they are still old speakers and must be worn by now.

Good as they were, it’s hard to see how they can match the Rubicons. An altogether better designed, more modern and expensive speaker.

The only further suggestion I have, and it’s an important one, is not to try too hard on the ‘review and comparison’. Odd as that may sound...

It takes a good while for a new speaker to embed its attributes in your brain.

That means it takes a month or so to subconsciously appreciate differences as ‘good or bad’ instead of just different.

Sometimes, in fact, the extra detail and control can seem either not much or hardly worth it, or simply too different.

Until they become settled in your mind. Then appreciation will become apparent and enjoyable. Or perhaps even not; but that, in this case, is an unlikely outcome.

I’d also suggest you listen to the Rubicons and the MF for a few weeks before returning to the B&Ws for a comparison. Some differences will be readily apparent, but the whole experience of new subtleties in the presentation takes a relaxed time period, without being in compare and contrast mode.

It is always a good idea to have a second opinion, but I doubt you’ll need it.

Ps, I suspect your son may well envy your possession of the Musical Fidelity. 👍
 
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Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Pps, even bearing in mind the above, I’d have to think that the considerable extra quality of both the amp and speakers will be instantly obvious.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ppps.

Just to muddy the the already murky waters and sow further confusion... 😀

If you’re paying full price for the Rubicons I’d buy these instead...


The MF and the Epicons are an end result hifi.

Expect 20 years of bliss.


 
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mhitchcock

Member
I’d hope your B&Ws would sound a bit better with the MF.

But they are still old speakers and must be worn by now.

Good as they were, it’s hard to see how they can match the Rubicons. An altogether better designed, more modern and expensive speaker.

The only further suggestion I have, and it’s an important one, is not to try too hard on the ‘review and comparison’. Odd as that may sound...

It takes a good while for a new speaker to embed its attributes in your brain.

That means it takes a month or so to subconsciously appreciate differences as ‘good or bad’ instead of just different.

Sometimes, in fact, the extra detail and control can seem either not much or hardly worth it, or simply too different.

Until they become settled in your mind. Then appreciation will become apparent and enjoyable. Or perhaps even not; but that, in this case, is an unlikely outcome.

I’d also suggest you listen to the Rubicons and the MF for a few weeks before returning to the B&Ws for a comparison. Some differences will be readily apparent, but the whole experience of new subtleties in the presentation takes a relaxed time period, without being in compare and contrast mode.

It is always a good idea to have a second opinion, but I doubt you’ll need it.

Ps, I suspect your son may well envy your possession of the Musical Fidelity. 👍
Yes he can't believe I brought the Rubicon back.
 

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