Upgrade from B&W620i

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
The 8006 also has a better input and preamp section along with the extra in the power amp section. A better buy, long term than a power amp on the end of the 6005.

It also has a decent amount of extra wattage over the 6005, not huge but useful, and the Dalis can certainly use it. I suspect it also has a noticeable improvement in current supply, which is more important as the Dalis are not the easiest load.

Having said that, the 7025 is a very respectable power amp, and will certainly get the best from your speakers as far as drive is concerned, but it would leave you with the bottleneck of the 6005s preamp.

It’s a pity Marantz don’t make a preamp. The pre and power amps would be first class.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I don’t know if you’re firmly wedded to Marantz?

If not there are no shortage of amplifiers in the 8006 price range.

A couple of suggestions.




PS, the available power (ie, current) is not strictly speaking for extra volume, it is for better driver control and therefore, better sound quality.

Numbers are certainly not the only measure by any means; the quality of components making up those numbers is as important. But, as a rule, more than enough quality output is tons better than a little too little.

Both the above will drive the Opticons without a sweat all day long, and will do so with their manufacturers customary excellent fidelity.

That said, I’m pretty sure that the 8006 will too, but Marantz are something of an unusual modern amp imo, in that they have a quite low damping factor, which seems to relate to what some people call warmth, but others call a bit lazy sounding.

As ever, a home trial is always the only real way to find out.
 
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mhitchcock

Member
Hi thank you.

I do have the nr1608 and do quite like it and also it's nice to have a matching system.
I'll will have a look at those suggestions though.
I am a little confused as to how the volume control works if streaming to avr then is the volume controlled by the avr or the amp?
I currently have my amp at the 1 o'clock ish volume setting.

I get that if I use a cd then volume is controlled by the amp as I have that connected directly amp.

🤔
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I’m not sure if it’s possible to set volume levels, separately, for the zone 2 outlets on the NR?, but if it is then I’d simply use those (maximum volume) into the 8006 (if that’s what you end up buying).
 

Ruffuz

Well-known Member
Bowers & Wilkins 683 S2 Floorstanding Speakers, Used great condition @ Peter Tyson Ebay

£574 with a code now.


 

mhitchcock

Member
Bowers & Wilkins 683 S2 Floorstanding Speakers, Used great condition @ Peter Tyson Ebay

£574 with a code now.


Nice but I think they are a bit big for my room.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
The marantz doesn't do it for me, I had a 6004 and my brother had a 6005 and they were pretty much the same thing with the same issues. I purchased a yamaha as-801 for a good price and it is in a totally different league, so much more clean power.

Even the Yamaha as-501 was much better than the marantz 6005 from memory and they are in the same class. I'm not sure what amps Yamaha have for sale at the moment though, but it's a brand I trust from experience
You are breaking my heart. Marantz midrange. Tell me who does it better. Female voices epically.

But I digress hearing is believing.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Marantz PM8006 has enough power for most speakers us mortal can buy.

But whether you well like is difficult to tell.

An amplifier 200 watt amplifier we’ll give you more headroom. More details on low volume.

Give the Marantz PM8006 and Silver 300 chance. I really can’t see any issues with this paring. The Silver 300 have sensitivity at 90 dB sensitivity and 8 ohm. Can drop to 3.8 ohm.

Could be issues, still I doubt it. Tried the B&W 603 with the PM8006 I own. The sound is great, even though B&W are notorious for being power hungry.

Still look at the sensitivity. 88-90 dB is pretty easy for most amplifiers.

Good luck. Ps, the Silver 300 can be placed 30 cm from the back wall. But as always if you place the speakers 60-70 cm from the back walls the sound breaths more.
 

mhitchcock

Member
Marantz PM8006 has enough power for most speakers us mortal can buy.

But whether you well like is difficult to tell.

An amplifier 200 watt amplifier we’ll give you more headroom. More details on low volume.

Give the Marantz PM8006 and Silver 300 chance. I really can’t see any issues with this paring. The Silver 300 have sensitivity at 90 dB sensitivity and 8 ohm. Can drop to 3.8 ohm.

Could be issues, still I doubt it. Tried the B&W 603 with the PM8006 I own. The sound is great, even though B&W are notorious for being power hungry.

Still look at the sensitivity. 88-90 dB is pretty easy for most amplifiers.

Good luck. Ps, the Silver 300 can be placed 30 cm from the back wall. But as always if you place the speakers 60-70 cm from the back walls the sound breaths more.
Thank you. A couple of weeks ago I demoed some ma silver but liked the sound of the Dali's a little more.
I have just got the chance to try out some Rubicon 5 at home so will give those a try with my amp and also my son has lent me his Denon PMA 800 so will try both that and my pm6005.
My thoughts are the Rubicon with only a single woofer might be better suited to my room. We'll see.
Could be getting very expensive.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Thank you. A couple of weeks ago I demoed some ma silver but liked the sound of the Dali's a little more.
I have just got the chance to try out some Rubicon 5 at home so will give those a try with my amp and also my son has lent me his Denon PMA 800 so will try both that and my pm6005.
My thoughts are the Rubicon with only a single woofer might be better suited to my room. We'll see.
Could be getting very expensive.
Monitor Audio and Dali are great speakers. No question about that. The Rubicon are sadly bass light. My opinion of course. The Dali Oberon 5 are great. Try those.
 

mhitchcock

Member
Monitor Audio and Dali are great speakers. No question about that. The Rubicon are sadly bass light. My opinion of course. The Dali Oberon 5 are great. Try those.
Oh ok.

I have also thought about the Dali Oberon 5 but not sure on the lower frequencies. They are very small. Can't remember though if I did demo or not.. lI'm going to be unboxing in few minutes so we'll see.
Also I've not listened to my 620 for a couple of weeks now so will give those a quick run and see how my ears react.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Oh ok.

I have also thought about the Dali Oberon 5 but not sure on the lower frequencies. They are very small. Can't remember though if I did demo or not.. lI'm going to be unboxing in few minutes so we'll see.
Also I've not listened to my 620 for a couple of weeks now so will give those a quick run and see how my ears react.
Remember sound is subjective. You might love the speakers. Please update.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Oh ok.

I have also thought about the Dali Oberon 5 but not sure on the lower frequencies. They are very small. Can't remember though if I did demo or not.. lI'm going to be unboxing in few minutes so we'll see.
Also I've not listened to my 620 for a couple of weeks now so will give those a quick run and see how my ears react.

I’m sure the Oberons are excellent. But if you’ve set your mind on the bigger and class up Opticon MK2s, then you’re likely to be permanently dissatisfied with the Oberon 5s.
 

mhitchcock

Member
Hi
We'll I have unboxed set up the Rubicon without any toein as recommended by Dali. Wow.. maybe I have got the right speaker.
The Rubicon 5 is smaller than the opticon 6 but seems to be just right for my room size. Maybe I only need something with one woofer so it doesn't overpower my room. Shame I don't have the opticon 6 now to compare. Short term memory eh

Thing is now do I also think about upgrading my amp if I stay with the Rubicon 5 as it's a smaller speaker.
Or will a better amp make the speaker sound more amazing. Currently running from the Denon PMA 800 on pure direct but will try my pm6005 as well.

Other thing is the opticon 6 is a MK2 from 2020 where as the Rubicon 5 has been around since 2015 or so.
Newer technology in the opticon.

Right I've been typing what I'm thinking so will stop waffling now.

Again thank you for your input and thoughts.
 

mhitchcock

Member
I’m sure the Oberons are excellent. But if you’ve set your mind on the bigger and class up Opticon MK2s, then you’re likely to be permanently dissatisfied with the Oberon 5s.
Yes that is a topic of conversation I have just had with my son on the dog walk just now 🤔
I’m sure the Oberons are excellent. But if you’ve set your mind on the bigger and class up Opticon MK2s, then you’re likely to be permanently dissatisfied with the Oberon 5s.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Hi
We'll I have unboxed set up the Rubicon without any toein as recommended by Dali. Wow.. maybe I have got the right speaker.
The Rubicon 5 is smaller than the opticon 6 but seems to be just right for my room size. Maybe I only need something with one woofer so it doesn't overpower my room. Shame I don't have the opticon 6 now to compare. Short term memory eh

Thing is now do I also think about upgrading my amp if I stay with the Rubicon 5 as it's a smaller speaker.
Or will a better amp make the speaker sound more amazing. Currently running from the Denon PMA 800 on pure direct but will try my pm6005 as well.

Other thing is the opticon 6 is a MK2 from 2020 where as the Rubicon 5 has been around since 2015 or so.
Newer technology in the opticon.

Right I've been typing what I'm thinking so will stop waffling now.

Again thank you for your input and thoughts.

The Rubicon is a superb speaker according to every review I’ve ever seen.

The Opticon may sound a little ‘bigger’, but it won’t sound better.

Nor would I worry about any older technology. The Rubicon contains the same type of drivers, but engineered ‘up’ from the Opticons, at the very least they are equivalent to the mk2 Opticons, but in fact are probably still a little superior.

And, alas, yes, the Rubicons will need a better amp at least as much as the Opticons.

The 6005 just wont be up to getting the best from them. It does not have the necessary power reserves and, now even more so (because the Rubicons are a more revealing speaker), the preamp part becomes even more important. And the 6005s is a quite cheap one compared to what the Rubicons will benefit from.

The 8006 is the least they will require if you’re staying with Marantz.
 

mhitchcock

Member
The Rubicon is a superb speaker according to every review I’ve ever seen.

The Opticon may sound a little ‘bigger’, but it won’t sound better.

Nor would I worry about any older technology. The Rubicon contains the same type of drivers, but engineered ‘up’ from the Opticons, at the very least they are equivalent to the mk2 Opticons, but in fact are probably still a little superior.

And, alas, yes, the Rubicons will need a better amp at least as much as the Opticons.

The 6005 just wont be up to getting the best from them. It does not have the necessary power reserves and, now even more so (because the Rubicons are a more revealing speaker), the preamp part becomes even more important. And the 6005s is a quite cheap one compared to what the Rubicons will benefit from.

The 8006 is the least they will require if you’re staying with Marantz.
Thank you for your very informative reply you have confirmed what I was thinking.

So I will have a good listen again and from so CDs as opposed to streaming from Spotify. Alsoo try some vinyl, but will have to borrow my daughter's turntable.

I have had an audiolab 8000 series suggested. Can't remember which one though. Thoughts?
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I
Thank you for your very informative reply you have confirmed what I was thinking.

So I will have a good listen again and from so CDs as opposed to streaming from Spotify. Alsoo try some vinyl, but will have to borrow my daughter's turntable.

I have had an audiolab 8000 series suggested. Can't remember which one though. Thoughts?

If you were to venture from the Marantz then I’d suggest the Rotel and the Musical Fidelity above before the Audiolab.

Not that they are allegedly bad amps, far from it, but they do have a sharper tone than the Marantz. However that does not mean you might not prefer the sound.

The more I read about the 8006 though the better it seems especially for a Marantz fan. Certainly if you can find a good used one that would be a good idea.

Aha... new only... 👍
 
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mhitchcock

Member
I


If you were to venture from the Marantz then I’d suggest the Rotel and the Musical Fidelity above before the Audiolab.

Not that they are allegedly bad amps, far from it, but they do have a sharper tone than the Marantz. However that does not mean you might not prefer the sound.

The more I read about the 8006 though the better it seems especially for a Marantz fan. Certainly if you can find a good used one that would be a good idea.

Aha... new only... 👍
Thank you for your time and help.

I will certainly look at the rotel and music fidelity. Hopefully find a good deal somewhere.
The rotel is creeping up in price a bit. I was.tjimking about 1000 budget but even the Marantz just goes north of that.

May I ask how you came to recommend those 2 amps?
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
It’s because I’m familiar with both brands and I’ve enjoyed many of them over the years.

The thing they have in common is the ability to drive even difficult speakers with no issues at all. Both have over generous power supplies and exert more than enough control for low resistance speakers at twice their price and better.

The Rubicons will present no problems for either amp.
 
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Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Another one to consider for a considerable budget relief is the Rotel RA-12.


It is better than the specifications given by Rotel. It offers 75W into 8 ohms with with a genuine doubling of 150W into 4 ohms.

That is the sign of an excellent power supply. And an ability to drive most any speaker to more than happy levels without a hint of strain.

For its price I don’t think it can be beaten.

You also get a very good digital/dac section too. I’d consider it the best bargain amp around at the moment. Rotels just do an amplifiers job and do it very well without any embellishment.

As a big improvement on the 6005 it’s a steal.

The bench results in this review tell it all.


It’s always best to spend the majority of a budget on speakers. They are responsible for what you will hear. Sounds obvious I know.

An amp needs to be able to drive the speakers properly, with enough current to keep low ohm and heavy music passages sounding realistic.

And it needs to do so to the highest standard of sound quality that any given budget will tolerate.

All of that is simple and obvious enough, but getting a good combination is less so.

In most people’s opinion, including mine too, finding the best speakers you enjoy for your cash is the first step. And the most important one.

You seem to have done so with either the Rubicons or the Opticons you’ve tried.

Next up is the amp, bought with the caveats above in mind.

To keep your budget sane, and because you want to buy new, the RA-12 is an excellent choice. To do better will cost you twice as much at least, and in some cases won’t be much better at all.

It’s hard to imagine you wouldn’t be pleased with the Rubicon/Rotel combination.
 

mhitchcock

Member
Another one to consider for a considerable budget relief is the Rotel RA-12.


It is better than the specifications given by Rotel. It offers 75W into 8 ohms with with a genuine doubling of 150W into 4 ohms.

That is the sign of an excellent power supply. And an ability to drive most any speaker to more than happy levels without a hint of strain.

For its price I don’t think it can be beaten.

You also get a very good digital/dac section too. I’d consider it the best bargain amp around at the moment. Rotels just do an amplifiers job and do it very well without any embellishment.

As a big improvement on the 6005 it’s a steal.

The bench results in this review tell it all.


It’s always best to spend the majority of a budget on speakers. They are responsible for what you will hear. Sounds obvious I know.

An amp needs to be able to drive the speakers properly, with enough current to keep low ohm and heavy music passages sounding realistic.

And it needs to do so to the highest standard of sound quality that any given budget will tolerate.

All of that is simple and obvious enough, but getting a good combination is less so.

In most people’s opinion, including mine too, finding the best speakers you enjoy for your cash is the first step. And the most important one.

You seem to have done so with either the Rubicons or the Opticons you’ve tried.

Next up is the amp, bought with the caveats above in mind.

To keep your budget sane, and because you want to buy new, the RA-12 is an excellent choice. To do better will cost you twice as much at least, and in some cases won’t be much better at all.

It’s hard to imagine you wouldn’t be pleased with the Rubicon/Rotel combination.
Wow thank you for you very detailed reply. Great help.
I will look into that one as well.

Yes both my son and I were very surprised with the Rubicon 5. They sound great considering only 1 woofer and their more compact size. Although they are a larger cabinet that my b&w.
They do seem to fill my room with the great sound that I have been looking for.
It will be interesting to plug my b&w in maybe tomorrow and see how they compare. I imagine they will sound dull
 

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