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Upgrade advice please...

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by ktng, Jul 23, 2004.

  1. ktng

    ktng
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    I've upgraded most of my gear over the last 9 months to what I have in my signature, finally getting hold of the RX-V1400 a couple of weeks ago from Germany :clap:

    Although I am pretty pleased with the results I think I probably need to upgrade the subwoofer now. I was going to go for the Yamaha YST315 but having read through the posts, especially the budget sub thread, I think there may be something better suited.

    My room is 4.1m x 3.3m and the concrete floor is carpeted. I have currently shortlisted the MS309 (although I can't find it listed anywhere in black) and BK XLS2000 from the budget test along with MJ Acoustics Reference 100 and Rel Quake. I use the system split roughly 70 (movies)/30 (music) so would still like something that sounds pretty good for music. I want it in black to match the rest of my setup.

    So am I right in thinking that any of the shortlisted subs will be better than the YST315 I was originally thinking of. Budget is £200-£350. I should be able to demo all of the subs apart from the BK, but would welcome any comments you may be able to give.
     
  2. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    It hurts to say this but if you need a good black sub reasonably quickly, the BK is probably the sensible choice. There are some black 309's out there (and there will be more) but not for a while now :(.
     
  3. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    How about the Velodyne CHT-10? You should be able to get it for somewhere around the top end of your budget and it is a great sub for the money!

    Mark.
     
  4. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    personally i think the MJ is the best for the money. Not having heard the BK that is...
     
  5. ktng

    ktng
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    Thanks for the comments.

    Tons of fun - when you say that there won't be any black 309's for a while are we talking weeks or months as I don't mind waiting for a while.

    MarkE19 - I haven't been able to find any black CHT-10's so far, but will continue looking.

    Hornydragon - I must admit the size of the MJ would be better suited for me, although I could fit the BK in no problem as well. May have to move some stuff around to fit the 309 or CHT-10 in though.
     
  6. Ian J

    Ian J
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    They should be less than that. They were £325 through our Power Buy forum two years ago and not only has the dollar fallen through the floor since then but also the CHT-10 is now discontinued so should be available at "run out" prices
     
  7. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I can assure that you won't be dissappointed with a BK, especially if size is important. I havn't heard the MJ, Rel or Velodyne although I strongly suspect that they all perform equally well in your sized room.
     
  8. ktng

    ktng
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    Thanks for the info eviljohn2.

    I haven't been able to find a black CHT-10 and no timescale from tons of fun yet on availability of a black MS309, so it looks like it could be the BK.
     
  9. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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  10. ktng

    ktng
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    Thanks MarkE19. I'll check to see if they have the black in stock.

    So can anybody tell me if it's worth paying approximately £100 more for the CHT-10 than the BK.
     
  11. largenogin

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    Go for the XLS200. I've had mine for about 4 months now and its far far better than the MJ pro 50 I had before (still have it using it in another room). I've also had demos of the ref 100 and Quake. I couldn't really say there was any difference between those and my pro 50.
    I can't Imagine the Velodyne being any better, especially in a small room.
     
  12. samhain

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    I am sure thats a very difficult question to answer because if you like one more than the other it is worth the £100 more.

    The build quality always seems good on the Velo subs although I have not seen the BK. Peace of mind and all that.
     
  13. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Build quality certainly isn't an issue with the BK, it's much heavier than the MS309 for example!
     
  14. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    I'll confirm that the BK is very well built- I'd argue its heavier because the 309's amp weighs almost nothing but then I would say that :laugh:.
     
  15. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    The difference in Class A and Class D is a factor but the BK is still as well put together as you could hope for at any price!
     
  16. samhain

    samhain
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    Can anyone claim to 'hear' a difference between an A Class amplifier and a D class amplifier ?
     
  17. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Apologies, the BK uses a class AB amp.

    In subwoofer use I don't think anybody could notice a difference as all you're trying to achieve is the most power you can with the least distortion.

    For more conventional hifi amplifiers the differences between Class A, Class AB and Class D may well be audible but the actual amplifier design can have as much effect.
     
  18. ktng

    ktng
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    Thanks for all your advice - had no luck with a black CHT-10 and it looks like the black MS309's won't be available until October so I've decided on the BK XLS200. Ordered it this morning and although it is built to order it will be ready to pick up tomorrow :clap:
     
  19. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Excellent, welcome to the BK Club. I think you've made a good choice, let us know how you get on with it :smashin:
     
  20. Kazman

    Kazman
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    It is a nice sub, and gives a great weighty sound for something so tiny, it definitely punches well above its weight :)
     
  21. ktng

    ktng
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    Thanks - I will let you know how it performs. I am going to run it with my Ixos sub cable for a while, but I suspect the next purchase will be a Mark Grant sub cable
     
  22. ktng

    ktng
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    Well as you can see from my signature I have picked the sub up now :clap:

    Observations so far - excellent service from BK Electrics :thumbsup: The 'manual' is sparse with no details on how to set it up apart from how to wire it up to the speaker connections on the amp. The sub itself is very well made. I haven't placed it where it will finally go yet and so far it is just sitting on the carpet on it's plastic blanking screws. I have done an initial set up, but I think it needs a good running in period and then adjusted again. But I'm sure that not many of you will be suprised to hear that it is already much better than the Yamaha sub it has replaced.

    But if anybody has any advice on some source material to test/adjust the phase control don't be shy ;)

    Also eviljohn2 or somebody else with the BK - do you have any advice on isolating it from the floor. I notice that eviljohn has his on some contiboard and rubber doorstops - I'm probably being a bit dense here :laugh: but it that spiked/unspiked BK onto contiboard onto doorstops onto floor or BK onto doorstops onto contiboard onto floor. My room is carpet on vinyl tiled concrete floor - so would I be ok just using the spikes into the carpet. I noticed that the Argos chopping board didn't seem to give any improvement on carpeted floor, but I think that was carpet on floorboards.

    Right off for another play I think :D
     
  23. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    If you can be bothered with the messing around then you can get some good results with a home made isolation platform.
    Being a lazy :censored: I decided that DIY was not for me and bought myself an 'Auralex Gramma' isolation platform. It has reduced the bass being heard in other rooms and has cleaned up the bass in the AV room.

    Mark.
     
  24. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I'm not using the spikes for various reasons (dictated by other members of the household), it's just resting on doorstops which are then on the lump of wood. Probably don't need the wood but I think it makes it look nicer.

    If you're allowed, you should be fine just using the spikes.

    I found that it did take a while to loosen up, but there's some serious equipment packed into that box and just one look at the rubber surround gives an idea of why it probably needs to loosen up.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the phase control yet, try and get the gain right and the location right first then maybe have a play with the phase control.
     
  25. samhain

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    What kind of a difference does using a slab of concrete make to the sound produced ?
     
  26. Roam

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    ktng,

    Congrats on the BK sub. A top little sub for the money!

    I think you will be fine just using the spikes pushed through the carpet, just make sure it sits level on the floor. Your solid concrete floor will be a good base for your sub.

    For setup if you don't already have one I think an SPL meter would help you get the most from your sub, indeed all your speakers will benefit from proper calibration.

    Enjoy! :thumbsup:
     
  27. ktng

    ktng
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    Thanks for that info Grinder. I was hoping that my concrete floor would be fine to use with just the spikes. Yes I do have an SPL meter as although my Yamaha amp has YPAO I had read up that it is still best to check/set it using an SPL meter.
    I have set the crossover on the amp to 80Hz as it's a THX amp and set the crossover on the BK to 80Hz as well and then set the levels using a DVD callibration disc rather than the test signal on the amp. I did read somewhere that you can't set the sub level on the same basis as the rest of the speakers, but I can't find info on how to compensate using the SPL I have (from Maplins).
     
  28. Ian J

    Ian J
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    If you have set the crossover on the amp to 80Hz you should either switch the crossover on the BK to off (if you can) or as high as possible to avoid cascading crossovers.
     
  29. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    The BK crossover does have an "LFE" setting, turn the dial as far clockwise as you can. I have heard that some people get a better result by leaving at ~80Hz though so perhaps try them both and see which you prefer.
     
  30. ktng

    ktng
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    Thanks for the advice Ian J & eviljohn2. I don't think it has an off - it's either 40-120Hz or LFE. I did try setting it to the LFE setting when I originally set it up, but it was making a bit of a buzzing noise so I set it back to 80Hz. But I'll give it a go later and see what happens.
     

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