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Updated my HCPC

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by Tim Cooper, Feb 14, 2002.

  1. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Hi all,

    Finally got my hcpc hardware updated runs now beautiful smooth pans blacks to die for & the clarity (To me) is outstanding.
    Just to recap my old hcpc as follows:

    soyo 6ba+100 slot 1 mobo
    PIII-700 cpu slot
    256mb cas2 crucial memory
    elsa gladiac mx 200 vid card latest detonator 3 drivers
    Hauppatage theater capture card
    M-audiophile 24/96 audio
    IBM 75 gxp 30gig hdd
    Win 98 se
    Windvd 2.8
    Powerdvd 4 xp
    Dvd genie 4.05
    Dscaler 3.1
    Running @ 720p 71.928 ntsc 75hz for pal to a Barco Graphics 808s

    This system ran lovely but suffered from stutter on v slow pans (opening of star trek insurrection being one of the worst culprits) the picture was clear & free from any noticeable on screen noise
    all in all not a bad setup... but, i knew i could do better :D

    The new system still retains the core components & mainly the cards being updated, new system as follows:

    soyo 6ba+100 slot 1 mobo
    PIII-700 cpu slot
    768mb cas2 crucial memory (why so much memory? don't ask)
    ATI Radeon 7200 64mb 9013 beta drivers
    KBK modified zoltrix capture card (more on this later)
    M-audiophile 24/96 audio
    IBM 75 gxp 30gig hdd
    Win 98 se
    Windvd 2.8
    Powerdvd 4 xp
    Dvd genie 4.05
    Dscaler 3.1
    Running @ 720p 71.928 ntsc 75hz for pal to a Barco Graphics 808s

    Now this system really rocks i could not believe the improvement in picture quality it is truley gorgeous,if anyone has any doubts about using radeon cards.....do it now you will not regret it,yes the drivers are a pain & setting up a radeon is a tweakers delight but then again thats what it's all about....right :D
    Right getting onto the KBK modified card...now these are being sold from a man in Canada called Ken Hotte who is quite highly regarded on those boards, now i waited nearly 3 months for this card & it does give a beautiful picture but it does suffer from diagonal banding (sometimes mainly on strong blues????) which i suspect is mains interference i have tried to keep mains away from cables etc i've checked that the mobo is tight to the mobo tray etc etc i've gotten rid of some but not all interferance, it could be nature of this heavily modded card.
    Sometimes wished i'd gone for the Falcon.
    All in all not a bad setup (probably not a patch on Jeffs Kryton) but i am a happy bunny lotta picture for not a lotta money (comparatively speaking):D
    Cheers chaps.
    Tim.
     
  2. jrwood

    jrwood
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    Yes, I have an ATI AIW Pro AGP 32mb card with wintv and the quality is astounding :). I want to upgrade to a Radeon for the gamma overlay support which is missing in the older ATI cards. However I think I`m going to wait as I am waiting for the Theatre 2 chip, I believe currently all the current ATI cards still use the old Theatre multimedia chip.

    Theatre 2 chip with mpeg 4 support is too tempting but I fear we wont see it until xmas or later...

    Out of interest why did you select 71.928 ?. I have a bit of stutter on a Gladiator scene which maybe you could check on your PC?. The scene is near the end where Maximum enters the arena from below the arena (light shines down etc) and then after this a large pan from right to left is shown of the arena. Do you get stutters on this scene?.

    I presume you are outputting to a seperate AMP for DTS/DPL2/DD ?, I think that has to be my next priority...sounds does make a difference compared to 2 speakers (however good the hifi system is!)

    cheers
    James
     
  3. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Hi James,
    You use 71.928hz because it is an exact tripling of the NTSC video frame rate i.e 24fps (or 23.97 to be exact) & tripling is what i'm doing via my hcpc because the Barco 808s' sweet spot is 720p or tripled......confused i am :blush: ,it allegedly stops stutters though mine does (v.rarely) you set it with a proggy called powerstrip.
    No doubt i'll be corrected if i'm wrong :D
    I have looked at the part of gladiator that you mention mine plays perfect
    Tim
     
  4. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    Tim's almost got it right.
    23.976 is the frame rate of the original film as shown in the cinema. Not NTSC. NTSC is usually 30 frames per second and NTSC encoded material contains the frames in a 3:2:3:2:3:2 format to do the conversion from 24 to 30. This is known as 3:2 Pulldown.

    The HCPC can detect this 3:2 pulldown and can therefore work out what the original film frames were.
    It can then reconstruct this frame sequence to any frame rate you desire. Fixed panel projectors are commonly 60Hz (frames per second) and in this instance the 3:2 sequence is restored which (although now Deinterlaced) will still show (albeit even) motion stutter.

    Now the real advantage of HCPCs and CRT projectors is that you can remove this stutter by using a 3:3 sequence by running them at 71.928 frames per second. (or a 2:2 sequence at 47.952 if you don't mind slight image flicker).

    Of course even pans also depend on a stable system and no interuptions but this is the starting point.

    BTW PAL doesn't suffer from 3:2 pulldown and so we use a multiple of its 25 frames per second i.e. 50 or 75 Hz

    I hope I got all that right!
    Alex
     
  5. Jeff

    Jeff
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    film is 24 fps, NTSC is 59.94Hz. So a R1 NTSC DVD is best shown at 59.94 /60 * 72=71.928Hz. The figure for NTSC isn't exact, so some timming errors will still occur. This method is very much display dependant (works best with CRTs) and DVD software config dependant. It should also luck quite juddery with DVD menu/animations as these are usually video based source.

    Jeff
     
  6. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    Ah... right - thanks for clearing that up Jeff
    So would it be right to assume that during the process of putting a film on US dvd that they would first slow the film from 24 fps to 23.976 before then implementing the 3:2 sequence?
     
  7. Jeff

    Jeff
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    One for Richard/Keith me thinks.
     
  8. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Alex

    Yes they do slow it down. Can't remeber the source for this but I remeber hearing about the telecine process and it the machines either do a very slight slow down for NTSC or a speed up for PAL.

    John
     
  9. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    Thanks for that John
    Alex
     
  10. jrwood

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    I looked at my projector manual and it gives the refresh rates it can cope with

    something like

    60.009 hz ??!?
    75.109 hz

    and i think it mentioned 85hz too at 1024x768


    hm Ill have to play in powerstrip and see if that magic figure you mentioned helps :)
     
  11. NickBull

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    Smooth pans are the Holy Grail on Home cinema. I watched R2 'Fast and the Furious' last night, and that looked almost perfect, at 75hz. Some slight motion blur on fast pans but then I see this on TV and DVD through and believe it's normal.

    However on Rock STar R1 I got a few little stutters on the pans at 71.928Hz! Not sure why, I have no background tasks running and have disables ports etc in the Bios. However not all R1 discs are like this, so maybe there's problems with some discs?

    Most of the time they don't really bear bothering about, but perfection is still tantalisingly beyond my reach, although I can now see it.

    The next step is a higher quality sound card, this may have soem nearing on the smoothness of the pans, that's the problem with PC's, something seemingly totally unrelated can cause a problem and it's hard to trace.
     
  12. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I don't buy the inexact refresh causing suttering: I'd expect tearing rather than stutter although I suppose it could be some sort of governing process to stop the audio going out of sync with the video.

    I suspect with certain dvds its down to the encoding and the I frames structure not being adequate to cope with the threshold of change on certain speed camera moves ( slower and its fine faster and you don't see the interpolation breaking down because its all motion blurred).
     

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