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Update on Lipsync

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by cadmeister, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. cadmeister

    cadmeister
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    I finally got around to trying my digital delay (which had been out on loan) on my plasma/SKY setup last night to see if I could cure my lip sync issue on terrestrial TV, so here are the results for anyone interested :

    The delay unit is a 4 year old Alesis Midiverb 3 unit. 19" rackmount that does lots of things just one of which is a straight forward audio delay (anything from 0-500ms). There is a simple bypass button that allows the delay to be turned on and off.

    I hooked this up in the audio path between SKY and my amp. Just to put this in context I find that the sync gets progressively worse as you get less mainstream i.e. BB1 - Channel 4 are generally OK, Sky One, E4, ITV2 are slightly noticable, MTV, Sci-fi, Discovery and kids channels are very noticable. As ever this is personal opinion and everyone's tolerence to lip sync is different.

    Since plasmas introduce 80ms delay (I've only ever got that from this forum I hasten to add) I decided to try a variety of delays from 60ms upwards. On most channels I found that a delay of ~120ms pretty much cured the problem for me. I almost instantly found myself concentrating on what was being said instead of whether it was in sync. For BBC1, 120ms had no adverse effect - it was probably putting the picture ever so slightly ahead of the sound and therefore not noticable and for Sky one etc it was putting it either on the nose or just behind, again not noticable. So that setting would work across the board for the channels that I watch.

    For the more obscure channels the delay was still there and in some cases (stand up UK Living) it needed 250ms delay - a quarter of a second - to compensate! Luckily those aren't parts of the broadcast spectrum that I visit (honest :blush: ) but its interesting to see just how bad it is.

    So for me I think I might look into a discreet delay unit - there are many available on the music market quite cheaply - as this one doesn't look right with my gear (though if anyone is interested in it let me know as it is gathering dust). I might even write to the manufacturer and suggest they make a consumer model as I'm sure they could knock one out for £50 these days, they just don't know that there's a market there.
     
  2. bluebear

    bluebear
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    cadmeister,

    Very interesting tests you have been doing.

    Is it possible for you to do the same audio delay tests using a standard 50Hz TV set ?

    This would then show what the REAL delay is of a Plasma...

    It also may be worth doing more tests on the Plasma, but using different types of Input types eg. RGB, 480P, composite & component so see what the difference it makes.

    I would be very interested in the results, as most DVD's played on my Panny D4 don't suffer from lip sync problems at all, which makes me come to the conclusion that lip sync problems are always caused by the broadcaster or poorly mastered DVD's.

    I think we should all get together and force the broadcasters to get there act together on the lip sync issue, as we all pay good money for our TV in this country.

    Regards,

    Bluebear.
    :D
     
  3. themmings

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    Great heads up Cadmeister. Lip Sync is an issue for quite a few people on these forums.
     
  4. Nick23

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    I was just about to look in to buying an audio delay device my self for my 37" panny 5. I'm outputting the sound from the tuner box into my amp via the standard red-white phono cables, and I would like to put the delay box inbetween the stream.

    Did the delay box you use have the red-white phono available for both an input and the output?

    While I know that TC electronics M-ONE sound board does the audio delay, I would like to try and find something cheaper than the £200+ asking price which achieves the same result. I'm not sure if the M-ONE has the red-white phono inputs and outputs anyway.

    Maybe we should make this thread sticky and post all available audio delay boxes that we know of that would solve the lip sync problem. At the moment I often find myself looking at the mouth of someone on TV just looking to see if the sound is in sync, and not actually watching the program at all.
     
  5. Nick23

    Nick23
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  6. cadmeister

    cadmeister
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    All pro audio gear has in's and out's as 5mm jack plugs. Converters to standard phono plugs are about 80p. The TC electronics unit is great for a musician but is over-specced for what you want to do. If I get a chance tonight I'll post a photo of mine so you see what I'm dealing with.

    On the previous post - yes, that's the sort of unit you can get (they are "this years" version of my midiverb 3). I don't know that supplier but have bought from these two many times :

    Turnkey Music
    Digital Village
     
  7. Nick23

    Nick23
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    Any chance of posting a picture of your setup? I'd be interested on how it all looks wired up.

    Thanks
     
  8. cadmeister

    cadmeister
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  9. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    VIGATEC Digital Audio Delay WAVE
    http://www.vigatec.de/products/wave1.htm
    http://www.vigatec.de/dateien/viga_wave_eng.PDF

    Designed for use with scalers/deinterlacers and projectors/plasma, with 7 inputs (optical, coax, analogue) and two outputs (optical, coax).

    Wondering if you can get them in UK, and for how much, just found the UK dealer on Vigatec's web-site...

    See Hear Ltd.
    Contact: Lisa Chan
    Unit 1, Briar Close,
    Wye Ashford
    Kent, TN25 5HB
    Tel: +44 (0)1233 813111
    Fax: +44 (0)1233 813666
    e-mail: info@seehear.co.uk
    http://www.seehear.co.uk/

    Which as I post this cannot believe, they are only a couple of miles away from me!

    But then looking at their web-site (last modified 7-Jan-2002) they have different contact details.

    See Hear Ltd.
    The Oast, Perry Court,
    London Road,
    Faversham
    Kent ME13 8RY
    Tel: +44 (0)1795 597590
    Fax: +44 (0)1795 597591
    e-mail: info@seehear.co.uk
    http://www.seehear.co.uk/

    OK, going to phone both numbers first thing in the morning; hopefully they're at the address not ten minutes away.

    StooMonster
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff
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    The Vigatec Wave box is about £700.
     
  11. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Know any places that stock it (apart from seehear) ?
     
  12. StooMonster

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    I had no idea of the price, until I saw the above and found one website listing it for €1400.

    Hrm... very nice, but not cheap.

    Also, I think SeeHear are a distributor not a reseller, so you may have to call them to find a local dealer.

    StooMonster
     
  13. cadmeister

    cadmeister
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    That's way too expensive for what it's doing, In the parallel world of music technology £700 buys you so of the top of the range professional quality audio gear that does a whole bunch of stuff more that plain delay.
     
  14. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Any suggestions of a coax or optical digital delay box from music technology; only need one input and one output?

    StooMonster
     
  15. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    I must say it looks a great product.

    1400 Euros is quite a bit on top of £700 & that's expensive as it is.
    Suppose it depends what way you look at it. If you've spent 1000's of pounds on a home cinema system & lip sync is killing your ultimate enjoyment is another £700 to totally solve the problem too much ?

    I'm scouring the web looking for a similar but slightly more affordable solution like the WAVE delay unit but not having much success at the momment.
     
  16. Jeff

    Jeff
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    I'm pretty sure the Wave was priced at a 1000 euros when it was released. Maybe its gone up in price. :confused:
     
  17. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    May be just an expensive French dealer?

    I am sure it can be had for less than that.

    StooMonster
     

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