Unusual 80mm fans in a VPH-1272QM

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by morksbeanbag, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. morksbeanbag

    morksbeanbag
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Messages:
    723
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire.
    Ratings:
    +49
    Hi All,

    I've recently purchased a Sony 1272QM pj. I think its brilliant but also needs quite abit of work until i'll be happy with it. I've cleaned it out thoroughly so there is not dust or dirt to be found inside, i've replaced the green tube so that both red and green are in excellent condition and have hopefully secured a blue one to replace the useless blue that is in there at the moment. Whilst i'm waiting to see if i get the blue tube and also save up for a board to give me prog scan component inputs i wanted to change out the fans. Its abit of a noisy thing at the moment and i can hear the fans are starting to sound a little gritty. I could open up each fan and individually clean and oil each one but its a pain and doesn't always give the required result so i'd like to buy a set of new dual ball bearing fans. I belive there are 5 80mm and 1 40mm fans in the 1272. I've plugged in a regular 3 pin 80mm fan (after changing over the red and yellow wires to make sure the fan runs) but after a second it shuts down the whole PJ.

    Are they're any quiet direct replacements or some way to shut off the fan speed sensing circuit, the latter being better.
     
  2. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,460
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +280
    These Sony's are know to be one of the loudest PJ's you can buy.........the 1292 being the daddy of noise!

    DONT replace with cheap pc style fans - you will just kill it......

    Post the model number of do a google search for them.

    Most if not all are usually available.

    DONT reduce the cfm rate - that is very important.



    Seleco ;) nows theres a nice silent good looking unit :D
     
  3. Boy Lex

    Boy Lex
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Silent looking until that teeny convergence board fan starts to squeel!!! Hehe... like finger nails on a chalk board!
     
  4. morksbeanbag

    morksbeanbag
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Messages:
    723
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire.
    Ratings:
    +49
    I tried out a PC fan (akasa) on one of the fan headers and if you short the yellow and black wires it runs happily, the akasa fans were quieter and put out a higher CFM than the stock fans which have a low cfm (apart from the two in the power supply).

    As far as quality is concerned i don't see what the Toyo units would have over a good dual ball bearing unit from zalman, papst or one of Vantec's stealth units.

    Am i missing something here?
     
  5. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,460
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +280
    papst thorens some of the best fans in the world.........

    3 wire fans (I thought....) are power supply to fan AND a return wire to send info back to a sensor, I did not think you need to short a wire.....

    UNLESS 2 are power supply - like permenant live and the third is a control wire and speed is dependant on voltage on wire 3 - that would then make sense.......


    Missing somethind? dont think so - just as long as you keep the flow right should be fine.......

    (Just several people have killed boards with wrong fans)
     
  6. morksbeanbag

    morksbeanbag
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Messages:
    723
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire.
    Ratings:
    +49
    They're quite odd fans i think. They have 5 wires, red (12v+), black (12v-), the yellow is feedback i'm sure but it also has to other thin black wires leading out both connecting to this unusual black block of hard shiny resin at the end which i think must have a component detecting temperature, however if they are placed next to a hot component or not they don't alter the fan speed. Maybe that part has died, the two black wires do not touch the pj circuits at all so you'd think it'd be ok to use a regular 3 pin fan with feeback lead but it shuts down unless you short the feedback and -12v lead.

    I'm sure i can half the noise output easily with some decent fans. It does sound like abit of a jet engine at the moment, and looks like one too.

    I really like this 1272 but the fried blue tube is totally ruining my image (on the screen i mean:D), i'm hoping i win the bid on your blue msp or i'll end up tearing my hair out.
     
  7. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,460
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +280
    NO NO NO.......

    BULBS grow in the ground.

    Lamps go in disposable digi's :devil:

    And tubes is what you mean.


    Try not to call it a bulb :rolleyes: - you are better than that now.............
     
  8. crispybig

    crispybig
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    If you want quiet you want sleeve bearing fans. Believe me, you will hear the difference. For our PJs ball bearing fans are - well, a load of balls!:D
     
  9. morksbeanbag

    morksbeanbag
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Messages:
    723
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire.
    Ratings:
    +49
    from experience with making silent computers sleeve bearing fans were always the cheap give away ones that came with a £10 case, or the ones pre installed into a PSU, and always the ones that started failing first. Any higher quality units with lower dB spec have always been dual ball bearing fans. I've never been able to get a sleeve bearing fan suitably quiet unless its speed is turned right down and is pushing hardly any air. The Zalman units i've used have been excellent in comparison, especially when used with a speed controller.

    Does anyone here install dust filters at the fan intakes to lessen dust in the PJ?
     
  10. crispybig

    crispybig
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    Yes, the Zalmans are very good. I have replaced the three original 92mm fans in my PJ with 92mm Zalman ZM-F2s. Very quiet now. Zalman are dedicated to providing quiet cooling solutions. Guess what bearing the F2 has? Yes - sleeve.

    I don't doubt your experiences with sleeve fans are genuine, but they are smaller than 92mm so maybe that's a factor? In any case, my own experience with these fans is that sleeve is quieter than the original ball bearings.

    Sleeve bearings do have a shorter lives, typically 20K hours compared to 60K hours for ball bearings. This is why ball bearings are used in quality kit, such as PJs. However, if noise was the main factor determining life then sleeve bearings would be best. Ball bearings run for ever, but they start noisy and get noisier quickly. Sleeve bearings live a quiet life and then just quietly die! :D

    As I only intend to put a few thousand hours on my PJ - if that - I prefer to use sleeve bearings. But, as ever, it's down to personal choice.

    I don't use a filter with my fans as they are used in "extract mode".
     
  11. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,460
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +280
    ball bearings get louder with heat, and CRT, well there is a lot of heat.......

    dust guard.....even on extract a good dust guard might reduce the noise by say 0.5dB.....thing is the fan noise is prime target and should be dealt with first......

    I have not modified the fans on my pj yet but in time I have ideas to reduce the fan noise.......you just gotta wait....

    (I accept mastercard, barclaycard, visa, American express, mastro, etc if you really wanna know NOW :smashin: )
     
  12. crispybig

    crispybig
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    Mmmm - let me guess! I'm betting it's the same idea I had. I even bought some of the necessary hardware. But now that I'm approaching things scientifically I don't think I'm going to need to be that extreme.

    Which has just reminded me that I never posted any "cooling" pics in this forum. Must do that soon- too late now.
     
  13. crispybig

    crispybig
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    I aim to do some serious quietening of my NEC PG. Due to practical limitations I won't be using a hushbox, but I will be messing with the fans amongst other things. I have temperature probes so I can monitor progress and stay safe as I experiment – but where to position the probes?

    I could have guessed a few locations, but I wanted to make sure I knew where ALL the hotspots were so I didn't miss anything. So I used an infra red camera to locate all the critical areas. These are where I fitted the temperature sensors.

    It's a time consuming exercise as I have to let the PJ cool down between configurations to get valid results. By "configurations" I mean different fan sizes, speeds, locations, orientation, etc. With and without baffles, ducting, and so on. And as the PJ is in ceiling mount orientation it can be a hassle to make even a minor change.

    I guess I'm about half way to a final solution. I've worked out some of the major factors and now it's fine tuning. I was hoping to be able to run the fans slow and quiet - so quiet that you wouldn't notice them unless you tried. But without overheating the PJ.

    So far I'm up to thirteen fans as opposed to the original five, but paradoxically it's really quiet (I'm running most of the fans much slower). I now believe I'll be able to achieve my objective.:)

    A couple of pics to give you an idea. One is a general view of the inside of the PJ with the IR camera. The other is the deflection board showing the HOT on its heatsink. There is also a temperature plot. It was the first I made, with no modifications. I've got loads more now - almost too many, as I'm begining to lose track of what I'm doing!:mad: :D

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Loading...