Unemployment Ancient History

[GAZBEROTTEN]

The coalition is complaining about the massive welfare bill and is worried about the unemployment numbers. The governments official agency for tackling unemployment is of course Job Centre Plus and there main website can be found here.

Directgov jobs and skills search - Job Homepage

However the problem with the governments main website and its job search functions wont help tackle unemployment since it only has access to the jobs available on there website.

You will all know that the internet is a big place and has endless amounts of information available. A quick search on multiple different search engines showed hundreds of Job Search Websites out there all with Jobs available not even advertised on the Governments main website.

Now with these websites offering tens of thousands of jobs on average this got me thinking. You have all seen the price comparison websites out there and the compare the market websites out there. The government have enough resources and influence to redesign there website from scratch and this time have the job search section of there website not only search there website but other Job Search websites over the internet at the same time and then display all the jobs and locations on the one page. So instead of there being a few jobs available in certain areas there would be hundreds instead of only a few maybe even thousands. This will allow Job Centre Plus to tackle a record amount of unemployment and would dramatically reduce the welfare bill by a lot. Any other job search websites could easily be added without any problem whatsoever adding even more available jobs.

Also they could employ there own agent whos job it would be to go from town to town and go into each of the shops at regular intervals and obtain any information on job vacancies that where available and could also easily add these job vacancies and the information on to the new website.

With todays technology this could very easily be done. And considering the ammount of jobs this would make availible would easily lead into the hundreas of thousands.

So what do you think should the government of done this from the start or do you think they should start doing this now?

GAZBEROTTEN

 

[Deleted member 36193]

Changes to the way the JCP website works are in hand, though it's anybody's guess when they may come in. The government will say it's to help people find work, but I think it's because they want to close the job centres.

The plan is that the new site will monitor activity on it, store CVs etc, and record what jobs have been applied for, interviews attended, feedback from employers etc. Whether you get your JSA would no doubt be based on how your jobsearch activity stacks up.

But there are problems, one of which you have highlighted- not all jobs are on the JCP site. There are two options to solve this; either set the system to search other sites as you suggest, or legislate for all vacancies to be listed on the site.

Both have problems. The first system would cost money JCP haven't got, and with the second, the resistance to this would be great from emploeyrs and agencies who would wish to keep things secret.

The current site has many problems-key in your location and set it to search 20 miles. I do this and get jobs from over 200 miles away. Add on top the jobs which don't exist (trawls from employment agencies), the repeated entries, and jobs (such as NHS ones) where you have to be an employee already, and searching becomes a nightmare.

The biggest problem is what any new system would cost, along with all government's track record of implementing new IT systems..........

 

[MaturityDodger]

Maybe the problem isn't just with the websites and the technology.
I could well understand that employers would want their openings to be picked up by people who have proactively sought them out, not by people forced to apply for jobs in order to claim benefits. So maybe there has been pressure from industry to stop jobcentre from having access to *all* available jobs?

 

[domtheone]

I don't think the government will be able to get unemployment down to very low levels again.

Practically zero immigration controls, significantly growing population, more peeps needing/wanting a job and less jobs to go round.

There's a limit as to how many more supermarkets Tescos can open

Close the borders, begin making things again and get peeps off welfare and into work.

And if they don't like the job that's going (say picking potatos) then tough.

 

[icstm]

I don't think the government will be able to get unemployment down to very low levels again.

And if they don't like the job that's going (say picking potatos) then tough.

Fix the 2nd and the 1st gets fixed!

 

[GAZBEROTTEN]

I don't think the government will be able to get unemployment down to very low levels again.

Practically zero immigration controls, significantly growing population, more peeps needing/wanting a job and less jobs to go round.

There's a limit as to how many more supermarkets Tescos can open

Close the borders, begin making things again and get peeps off welfare and into work.

And if they don't like the job that's going (say picking potatos) then tough.

Right so lets say someone who is unemployed and a qualified it expert has to pick potatoes. They wouldn't know what to do or even have a clue what they where doing.

Would you want to risk taking people on who didn't know what they where doing and you knew where not capable of the task. The same can be said about other types of work people are forced onto.

If the goverment where smart they would of done the website revamp mentioned on the very first post of this thread above with there JCP website ages ago sadly they still haven't and have given the impression they really don't care.

Now once sidlicks and la gran siete comment this thread will be active

 

[dazza74]

Right so lets say someone who is unemployed and a qualified it expert has to pick potatoes. They wouldn't know what to do or even have a clue what they where doing.

An IT expert couldn't figure out how to pick potatoes in a field. The reason you don't get much of a response now Gaz is purely because of statements like this. If you were suggesting that somebody with those skills be given more time on JSA to seek out an IT job as opposed to picking potatoes that would make sense.

The governments not really that bothered about fixing unemployment imo, I don't think society as a whole is that fussed either. Seriously if we were as individuals forced to suddenly start paying the true price for what we consume because we are forced to pay for British made goods to get people of the dole they'd be uproar imo.

It's suits people in this country to have this underclass that they can throw crumbs at, they'd moan more if we didn't have the system we do.

 

[la gran siete]

I don't think the government will be able to get unemployment down to very low levels again.

Practically zero immigration controls, significantly growing population, more peeps needing/wanting a job and less jobs to go round.

There's a limit as to how many more supermarkets Tescos can open

Close the borders, begin making things again and get peeps off welfare and into work.

And if they don't like the job that's going (say picking potatos) then tough.

Growers tend to employ foreign pickers because they are much better at it. Given they start doing it when they are very young in their respective country, thats not surprising.The average unemployed Brit simply couldnt compete .

Very low levels of unemployment are a pipe dream unless we bring more people onto the public sector again

 

[sidicks]

Growers tend to employ foreign pickers because they are much better at it. Given they start doing it when they are very young in their respective country, thats not surprising.The average unemployed Brit simply couldnt compete .

I think it's more to the point that it is hard work, and many unemployed Brits don't see the point of hard work for low wages when they can currently do nothing and receive similar amounts.

Soon however, they won't have the choice and then they might have to learn!

Very low levels of unemployment are a pipe dream unless we bring more people onto the public sector again

Much cheaper and more efficient to pay benefts instead.

Sidicks

 

[la gran siete]

I think it's more to the point that it is hard work, and many unemployed Brits don't see the point of hard work for low wages when they can currently do nothing and receive similar amounts.

Soon however, they won't have the choice and then they might have to learn!



Much cheaper and more efficient to pay benefts instead.

Sidicks

A tv programme was made some time back where a group of unemployed people were encouraged to take on jobs almost exclusively done by East Europeans- picking potatoes.In fact the foreman was a Bulgarian.Not surprisingly the English blokes were quite useless and couldnt keep up no matter how hard they tried.The employer was adamant that he would ONLY employ those foreigners.
Its no different to any other sector in that an employer will want the best people with the most experience.
The pay wasnt bad either and certainly in excess of minimum wage.
My belief is that unless suitable work that can be done effectively by the unemployed at a decent pay rate I would rather they stay on benefits,hopefully funded by the vastly overpaid .

 

[sidicks]

A tv programme was made some time back where a group of unemployed people were encouraged to take on jobs almost exclusively done by East Europeans- picking potatoes.In fact the foreman was a Bulgarian.Not surprisingly the English blokes were quite useless and couldnt keep up no matter how hard they tried.

Why "not surprisingly"??

It's not complicated manual work, I'm sure it just takes a bit of practice and a lot of effort.

No reason why the Brits couldn't do it - an artificial TV program is hardly conclusive proof.

Try the same experiment in the real world - no benefit alternatives and payment according to how much they pick - I'm sure that after a day or two they would be performing similarly to the Eastern Europeans.

The fact is they've had it too good for too long.

I'm sure I'd be rubbish at first, but if this was the only option or starve then I reckon I might improve fairly quickly!!

The employer was adamant that he would ONLY employ those foreigners.
Its no different to any other sector in that an employer will want the best people with the most experience.
The pay wasnt bad either and certainly in excess of minimum wage.

Fortunately the laws don't allow them to discriminate in this way!

My belief is that unless suitable work that can be done effectively by the unemployed at a decent pay rate I would rather they stay on benefits,hopefully funded by the vastly overpaid .

If unskilled labouring is not suitable then what is?!

What is your definition of 'vastly overpaid' and how does it relate compare to your earnings.....


Sidicks

 

[Jamezinho]

My belief is that unless suitable work that can be done effectively by the unemployed at a decent pay rate I would rather they stay on benefits,hopefully funded by the vastly overpaid .

It's statements like this that make me despair about this country.

 

[sidicks]

It's statements like this that make me despair about this country.

I'd love to buy LGS a drink and sit down and try and understand where this bitterness and jealousy comes from against those who work hard and better themselves...


Sidicks

 

[Jamezinho]

I'd love to buy LGS a drink and sit down and try and understand where this bitterness and jealousy comes from against those who work hard and better themselves...


Sidicks

I don't understand it either. The bitterness towards high earners is ridiculous. People at the top of their profession should be rewarded otherwise what's the point? Where would the aspiration be in society?

High earners contribute so much more to the system via taxation than they will ever take out.

 

[Dave]

I think you've been asked this before LGS but what do you class as a high earner?

Is it anyone that earns more than you?

 

[Rasczak]

I think you've been asked this before LGS but what do you class as a high earner?

Is it anyone that earns more than you?

I suspect it is all "poncey toffs".

 

[la gran siete]

I think you've been asked this before LGS but what do you class as a high earner?

Is it anyone that earns more than you?

no its anyone on high salary who sits in their comfortable chairs pontificating about people very much worse off than themselves ie people struggling on benefits or very low wages. Lets just say their comments irritate me somewhat .I call it the Marie Antoinnette "let them eat cake" or "make them work hard for a pittance" syndrome.I am inclined to think they should be made to live a life on benefits in a tenement block for a year before being allowed to make comments.
My personal circumstances are irrelevant because i am not uncomfortable but just as some of the well healed feel free to make unreasonable comments about others, so can I, except in the other direction.

 

[la gran siete]

I'd love to buy LGS a drink and sit down and try and understand where this bitterness and jealousy comes from against those who work hard and better themselves...


Sidicks

i am sure you and i could get on quite well ,except when politics rears it ugly head

 

[la gran siete]

Why "not surprisingly"??

It's not complicated manual work, I'm sure it just takes a bit of practice and a lot of effort.

No reason why the Brits couldn't do it - an artificial TV program is hardly conclusive proof.

Try the same experiment in the real world - no benefit alternatives and payment according to how much they pick - I'm sure that after a day or two they would be performing similarly to the Eastern Europeans.

The fact is they've had it too good for too long.

I'm sure I'd be rubbish at first, but if this was the only option or starve then I reckon I might improve fairly quickly!!


Fortunately the laws don't allow them to discriminate in this way!



If unskilled labouring is not suitable then what is?!

What is your definition of 'vastly overpaid' and how does it relate compare to your earnings.....


Sidicks

picking potatoes or any root vegetable is back breaking work.The east Europens are well used to it having done an "apprenticeship" in it ie worked since they were kids.Put a bloke to do it who has never done it before and you will not get the same results.Thats why an employer will always opt for the East Europeans.He makes more money from them and they being well used to it, dont mind the graft.The money they make also goes much further back home so they save as much as they can, which means they have real incentives.Its almost a perfect situation which could not be replicated using unemployed people.You would have to train them as kids first ,working for pocket money, bringing child labour back in the process, something i am quite sure one or two here would not mind one bit.

 

[mij]

I never see LGS as bitter, he voices an opposite opinion to most on here that is almost always interpreted as bitterness/jealousy etc..

Maybe it is simply that he has experienced the other side of the tracks and realised that not all are ponce's & scroungers! And maybe that a lot of us could easily be in the same situation if it was not for the pure luck of being born into a family that was able to help in avoiding the other side.

Thinking about foreign workers versus British workers, imagine having the opportunity to move to another country that offers a better life.. You might be willing to take any work and look at it as a foot in the door, time may prove otherwise which could be why a lot end up on benefits.

The same job for a British born worker could be seen as a low paid dead end job with absolutely no prospects that could make them worst off than being on benefits.

I don't doubt they could do the work if they were forced to, but it must be hard to get motivated in that situation. Like LGS, I would rather see cuts at the top given to them at the bottom as the gap is too wide, instead of the people in the middle paying the price for the ever growing few at the top.

 

[GAZBEROTTEN]

Did anyone not stop to think LGS has a valid point

 

[dazza74]

Thinking about foreign workers versus British workers, imagine having the opportunity to move to another country that offers a better life.. You might be willing to take any work and look at it as a foot in the door, time may prove otherwise which could be why a lot end up on benefits.

There's more motivation at the end of the day imo for these people, they know they can come over here, do a bit of graft for a few years and go home and have a decent deposit on a house back home or even buy one.

I'd sooner somebody suggested something practical if you wanted to save money like euthanasia for the work shy in this country rather than the traditional cowards route that governments choose which is to lower people standard of living.

What seems to get underestimated is the knock on effect of cutting benefits, back people into a corner and you can create problems that we didn't even know could exist.

That's why they pay the drunks where I live an extra £36 a week over JSA claimants, it's not right but it means their not shop lifting the alcohol instead.

 

[dazza74]

I'd love to buy LGS a drink and sit down and try and understand where this bitterness and jealousy comes from against those who work hard and better themselves...


Sidicks

I'm bitter and jealous, I wouldn't say LGS falls into that category.

I'm bitter and jealous when I'm struggling to pay a utility bill one month and I put on the telly and see some idiot wasting good money on a spa for their dog. I can't help it I'm afraid at times, sometimes you can have a go in life and still get a regular kick to the nuts.

 

[dazza74]

I don't understand it either. The bitterness towards high earners is ridiculous. People at the top of their profession should be rewarded otherwise what's the point? Where would the aspiration be in society?

High earners contribute so much more to the system via taxation than they will ever take out.

But then on the other hand, why do those who have plenty always seem to be the ones bleating about taxation. Most of the population are under "PAYE" and have no tax avoidance options open to them but don't do nearly as much complaining as the better off.

You've got to have some form of balance under capitalism as it's a winner and losers philosophy. We are slowly but surely losing that balance here and it could lead to social unrest.

The real myth imo is that it's this idea that only the out of work are benefit claimants. We've got practically every family in this country dependant on state benefits in the form of child benefit and child tax credit. That to me highlights that the wealth distribution in this country is not working through salaries.

 

[mij]

I'm bitter and jealous, I wouldn't say LGS falls into that category.

I'm bitter and jealous when I'm struggling to pay a utility bill one month and I put on the telly and see some idiot wasting good money on a spa for their dog. I can't help it I'm afraid at times, sometimes you can have a go in life and still get a regular kick to the nuts.

I was watching some old western the other day, some baddy was saying how savage the Indians were, the cowboy in the white hat reminded the loud-mouth that the Indian chiefs & braves never ate until the oldest & weakest of their tribe had a full pot of food. Not a bad way to live is it.