"Underwhelmed" by Dolby Atmos

The Auro 3D demo disc is probably the best demonstration material for 3D audio of anything I heard when I had my setup actually. I particularly liked the tractor passing and the cathedral organ chapters. As for movies in general, don't think there's anything 'stand out', certainly not what I heard when I had my 3D sound system anyway.

See my list above. Mad max is really obvious.
 
^Maybe it’s just me but I buy a movie for the story rather than the sound, of course a great soundtrack makes it even better but I’ve never bought a movie for its sound.
 
^Maybe it’s just me but I buy a movie for the story rather than the sound, of course a great soundtrack makes it even better but I’ve never bought a movie for its sound.

Yeah, fair enough, but if you’re not bothered about the sound, why have a decent sound system in the first place.

A rubbish film with a decent soundtrack is still a rubbish film. But, a decent soundtrack with a decent system, takes a 6/10 film and makes it an 8/10 film.

I can think of a fair few films that I have enjoyed more on second viewing in my cinema room compared the first time I watched it at either the cinema or on a TV, the most obvious films being Oblivion, Godzilla and Prometheus.

I wouldn’t buy a film just for the soundtrack, but there are plenty of films out there that have very good Atmos mixes that are also decent films.....
 
I bought pixels from CEX the other day and it wasnt for anything but the soundtrack. Stuck it in my UB900 and it said it wasnt a compatible disk. Stuck it back in and my player froze on 10 seconds. Couldnt do anything with it at all. There i was thinking great, a s**t film costing me 1 pound has just broken my several hundered pound player. Luckily enough it eventually powered off after about 5 mins and i pressed open. Much to my delight it's working fine now. It's the only Auro 3D movie I know of so hopefully i can be forgiven for that curiosity.....?:rolleyes:
I also purchased The Great Wall which was pretty awesome. Big drums, whistling arrows and a more than watchable story. Well worth a purchase.
 
Atmos overhead effect can be a bit hit and miss so it is IMO opinion dependent on the disc mix. I find that the overall sound of my 7.2.4 system to generally be better using all the speakers in the system rather than 5.1/7.1 mixes. I tend to use DTS Neural for Non DTS:X or Atmos mixed discs as The DTS Neural seems to do a better job with the overhead effects than Dolby surround.
 
I agree that 3D sound is overrated and I also think it's unnecessary in a home environment. I speak as someone who had a full 5.2.4 Ken Kreisel system and swapped it out for a 5.2 setup.

Before going 'Atmos' I always mounted my rears high up and slightly behind the MLP (something I just carried over from the old Pro-Logic days!), so the rear height effects were not really giving me anything new compared to how I was already used to hearing surround sound anyway. The front heights added a little more 'wall of sound', but since dropping back to 5.2 I can't say I miss it particularly.

For anyone who's never tried 'standard' 5.1 with higher mounted rears I'd recommend you give it a go, I think you'd be surprised at how room filling and effective it is. Most rear effects tend to be something that's supposedly overhead anyway, so it all feels very natural for the sound to be coming from above.

Just my take.
Agree, like yourself I,ve always had my rears up high.
 
Demo World — Demo Discs around the World.
I have to plug into my 4K Player since AVR doesn't play those files

Oh go on - give us a clue - the site says - "NOTICE: ONLY FOR INFORMATION, NO SELLING OR DOWNLOAD LINKS AVAILABLE !!!"

I can't see anyway of downloading files anywhere!:confused:

edit: ignore me - just found the links under the 'trailers' tab - thought you could download the whole discs!
 
For the small outlay of £80 or so for upfiring speakers I was able to enable Atmos and DTS X on my Denon, so that sound option becomes available on blu-rays, Netflix, Itunes movies, and gaming.

I don't expect great 3D audio and overhead effects, but the overall sound is always improved, clearer and more distinct.

It's an important option to have available in your setup, just like I chose the LG C8 to have DV available for content that supports it.
 
If anyone is underwhelmed with Atmos, try the following discs:

Deepwater Horizon
Mad Max Fury Road
Blade runner and BR2049
Lone survivor
Everest
Equalizer 2
Hans Zimmer
Hacksaw Ridge
John wick 1&2
Kong
Mission impossible rogue nation and fallout
San Andreas
Wonder Woman
Star Trek
Ready player one

I've got a 5.1.2 Atmos system (see link to my signature), even with only just 2 ceiling speakers, I can certainly say that I am enjoying Atmos and would not describe it as "underwhelming". The above list of films are great choice to demo Atmos, I would add Skyscraper 2018 to that list.

Personally I think to get the best out of Atmos, you would need to go with a set of full range in ceiling speakers and not the bouncing off the ceiling type. I would also recommend setting the crossover on the ceiling speakers to 80hz, you want to keep as much of the frequency range available to the height sound effect coming from above as opposed to it being re-directed to your sub which is more ground based. I would also increase the ceiling speaker output by 2 decibels. Increasing the ceiling speaker outputs by a couple of decibels would not put it out of "sync" in terms of perceived volume in comparison to the rest of the system as much as you think it would, this is because your AVR is only directing sound objects to your Atmos speakers as and when the sound effect is required, unlike the L/R/C channels which are pretty much on full steam all the time.

I think the reason why some people describe Atmos as being "subtle" is because Atmos places sound objects over and around you, and this is more subtle than the impact which you are more used to coming from the traditional front L/R/C channels in full steam, but when the front L/R/C channels are combined with overhead ceiling speakers they create a sound bubble which you definitely know is there and wasn't there before. I understand why some folk describe Atmos as being "subtle" and "underwhelming" but if done properly I would describe it more as being "enveloping","room filling", and "impactful".
 
It is down to the skill of the film mixer if you get a decent Atmos effect but most times not

IMO it is not as good as it is cracked up to be and can be subtle at times but in reality no speaker in a system should stand out, it is the sum of the parts that gives you the envelopment

I often think Atmos is a con anyway as mixers can place sounds from the ceiling using plain DTS MA
You only have to watch "Master and Commander" and hear the sailors running above deck right above your ceiling to question why they needed to introduce Atmos in the first place
There are quite a few bog standard discs already mixed and capable of producing this effect

The way Dolby sold Atmos was that they can place objects anywhere in 3D space but I have yet to hear a bird perch on my shoulder and tweet in my ear
 
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Only just gone 5.1.2, and I do notice a difference but its not night & day. My height speakers are at the front, high up near the ceiling, pointing towards the listener. In my AVR I set them as middle heights....not sure if its right or wrong. Overhead sounds are not as obvious to me, I can pick them out but it mainly extends the soundstage. So the fronts seem "bigger" and the surround seems more enveloping. I've only got a few discs, but Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom uses DTS X well as does MI:Fallout during the helicopter chase. Pacific Rim Uprising has some good height stuff, shame about the film :)

So far I'm pleased with and may add a further 2 speakers later so see if that really enhances the overhead effect.
 
It is down to the skill of the film mixer if you get a decent Atmos effect but most times not

IMO it is not as good as it is cracked up to be and can be subtle at times but in reality no speaker in a system should stand out, it is the sum of the parts that gives you the envelopment

I often think Atmos is a con anyway as mixers can place sounds from the ceiling using plain DTS MA
You only have to watch "Master and Commander" and hear the sailors running above deck right above your ceiling to question why they needed to introduce Atmos in the first place
There are quite a few bog standard discs already mixed and capable of producing this effect

The way Dolby sold Atmos was that they can place objects anywhere in 3D space but I have yet to hear a bird perch on my shoulder and tweet in my ear

Couldn't agree more.

Another good example of this height effect from plain old 5.1 (and I think it even worked with Pro-Logic!) is in the movie The Others (2001) - There's a scene in which there are children running around in the room above and it sounds like it's coming from the room above! A good 5.1 mix on a good 5.1 system is perfectly capable of delivering overhead sound placement - especially with higher mounted rears.
 
I can only speak for my own experience based on my setup but I get sounds over head on most movies and when a helicopter or space ship zooms either into shot or leave from over head I hear it, is this due to the placement of my 7.2 setup where everything is at ear level and my side surrounds are at 90 degrees instead of slightly behind.

It reminds me of the kind of experience you’ll get from headphones, the sound it going directing into the ears yet your brain thinks the sound is above you.
 
Whilst my signature falsely shouts 7.4.4, it's actually 'only' 7.4.0 at the moment as the major endeavour to fit the ceiling speakers (KEF 200) has so far eluded me. My system is already fairly intense for an average-sized room with about 8kw rms of amps, before counting the still-dormant Atmos amp, and the notion that 'enough is enough' plays on my mind.

I first heard Atmos at the Dolby demo theatre in Soho on first release and wasn't as convinced as I'd (or they'd) expected. Perversely, the experience did convince me that a 2.4:1 screen was as important as life itself. Still, I'm past the point of no return with the Minema, so have Atmos planned, and will be excited to play my recent-issue movies with hopefully even more crash-bang-wallop in due course.

I really do love what they can do with the vision and sound nowadays, and enjoy the sort of spectacular movies that can demonstrate my system (albeit to me, basically) to good effect. But the fact remains that unless you're an inveterate populist, most movie lovers would probably admit that there are few, or none, of the greatest all-time films that actually have an Atmos soundtrack. I'd go further and suggest a minority even have a surround track, at least originally. I grew up with b&w and mono movies and am not particularly a populist (or popular) so am as likely to watch Scarface (1932 version) or Bicycle Thieves as I am Mad Max: Fury Road or Prometheus, therefore I can see both sides of any argument as to whether Atmos is more or less worthwhile.
 
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So after living with Atmos (5.1.4) since last April, I still find myself feeling underwhelmed by the Atmos part.
Is it me or do some Atmos/DTSX sound tracks just not deliver? For example, The Greatest Showman, I was convinced my speakers weren't working.
I only ask as when researching and also listening to lots of feedback, the general consensus was Atmos really DOES make a difference. Due to this, I can't help maybe it's something I'm doing wrong...
Sorry for the rant, it's just something I've had at the back of my mind for a while and have never wanted to admit it or say it out loud.

Many thanks

Not all soundtracks are created equally. The best Atmos soundtracks are usually the ones where they were originally mixed in Atmos for the theatrical release, rather than it being an after-thought just for the Blu-ray/UHD release.

One of the best examples is 'Gravity' on Blu-ray, but you must get the 'Diamond Luxe Edition' - this is the only version that contains the Atmos mix. 'Sicario' was also released theatrically with Dolby Atmos, and this is also on the Blu-ray disc.

Also, Dolby's own test material on Blu-ray disc is very effective. There are specific demos as well as movie clips. Dolby don't sell the demo discs directly, but you may be able to obtain one (even borrow) from your Denon dealer. Dolby Demo discs from 2014 onward contain Dolby Atmos.

Often, it's an artists choice to use restraint in the sound mix. There are many movies where there's very little directional placement in the surround channels and/or overheads. More often than not, they are used for general ambiance - you're not supposed to notice exactly where the sound is coming from.

Regarding general advice - make sure you follow Dolby's guidance on where to locate the speakers and make sure they are connected to the correct terminals and the configuration is correctly configured in your AVR - I'm sure you have done this, but always worth double checking.

I only have two overhead speakers for Atmos (7.1.2), but I find it is very impressive, and immersive.


Regards,
James.
 
I've recently upgraded my modest 5.1 to a modest 5.1.2 using two Min22's I picked up at a bargain price of £89. I gave my initial impressions in this thread: What would have you added to/upgraded in my setup?

I also do agree that Atmos decoding - at least in my case - has added a lot of dynamism and immersiveness to my system, which already wasn't bad at 5.1. Atmos movies now sound a lot more enveloping and I do sometmes feel the sound "moving" within the 3D space. I can only imagine how awesome Atmos/DTS:X must sound in proper 7.1.4 setups..

I think for people to notice a real difference between normal DTHD and Atmos decode is to watch movies that they're very familiar with, movies that they used to watch a lot under non-atmos setups. Such movies for me were Mad Max Fury Road and Oblivion, and the change was definitely "day and night". Especially in Mad Max, the soundtrack sounded much louder even, so much so that I couldn't watch it at -20 db that I used to. I had to turn it down to around -30db. Oblivion was also amazing. There's one scene that I use a lot to demo the overhead speakers, where Jack arrives at the old, destroyed stadium and his spaceship flies over the camera. Also, Sally's voice when the camera is showing the com room where Vika sits, comes from "somewhere" above. Very nice. If you have any doubts about whether your overheads are on or off, watch this movie - it's a great demo material!

I also agree with @mb3195 's post above saying that a good sound mix played through a good system can make a bad movie a lot more watchable. For example, Unbroken. The opening scene is a really good demonstration of Atmos
 
I agree that 3D sound is overrated and I also think it's unnecessary in a home environment. I speak as someone who had a full 5.2.4 Ken Kreisel system and swapped it out for a 5.2 setup.

Before going 'Atmos' I always mounted my rears high up and slightly behind the MLP (something I just carried over from the old Pro-Logic days!), so the rear height effects were not really giving me anything new compared to how I was already used to hearing surround sound anyway. The front heights added a little more 'wall of sound', but since dropping back to 5.2 I can't say I miss it particularly.

For anyone who's never tried 'standard' 5.1 with higher mounted rears I'd recommend you give it a go, I think you'd be surprised at how room filling and effective it is. Most rear effects tend to be something that's supposedly overhead anyway, so it all feels very natural for the sound to be coming from above.

Just my take.

100% agree with this, Dolby do say the surround speakers in a 5.1 set up should be higher anyway. With Atmos they should be ear level as the Atmos speakers add the height you're then missing.

Playing Dolby's Atmos demo blu ray on my 5.1 set up creates this mystical 'bubble' without the speakers and it sounds amazing, effects soar overhead and around the room exactly as they are supposed to do.

Personally, I think Atmos is great for large areas, ie cinemas, to put back the effects you can lose by being seated other than optimally, but otherwise just a bit of a novelty/marketing thing.
 
I'm just toying with the idea of replacing my poorly AVR-4520 with an atmos set up, but as I already have a 11.1 set up with Front Wides and Front Heights, I was thinking about a 9.1.4 set up by adding a pair of upfiring speakers atop my surround back speakers and using the current front heights as the top front speakers (at ceiling level but directed at the MLP). The trouble with this approach is that a need a receiver with 13.1 outputs, and that for me would be the £2,800 Denon AVC-X8500H! (Already have an external P-AMP for the LCR - Emotiva DR3)

Next best thing would be a 9.1.2 setup and perhaps looking at a S/H AVR-X7200WA (as that has both Audyssey DSX and DTS X:Neural for the Front Wides). There aren't many more "cheap" options to get Front Wide processing. Other than the X8500H and the aforementioned X7200WA, no other "X" series have the option for specifying Front Wides.

Or perhaps a 7.1.4 and forget about the front wides!

Trouble is (I think) is that my lounge is quite big (not huge) at 21' x 17' and I found putting in both Wides and Height into my 7.1 setup made a huge difference to the "wall of sound" and depending on the material like DTS HD 7.1, the "bubble" of sound in the MLP. That said, it can be a bit hit and miss.

9SYiv0t.png


I was thinking that by adding a pair of upfiring Atmos speakers atop the Surround Back (or Surrounds?), it may help anchor the sound better (at the MLP) with the MLP being so far from the front speakers. In-ceiling is out of the question. Also I think adding a pair of upfiring at the front (instead of the current front height) wouldn't work that well with the MLP being so far back. When looking at the Dolby images for upfiring front speakers, they always seem to show the MLP being quite close and therefore the reflected sound would appear to come from above (with the ceiling operating a bit like a mirror). But when seated quite a bit back, not sure this would work well unless the upfiring speakers were tilted up more to reflect to the MLP.

F6OHPHO.png



Assuming for one minute that I could put my hand deeper into my pockets, what would your suggestion be? X8500H in 9.1.4 or X7200WA in a 9.1.2 (with upfiring at the rear?) or 7.1.4 and drop the wides? I presume there's no such config as 11.1.2 (upfiring at the rear) on the X8500H?

Decision. Decisions.
 
Personally it would have to be four Atmos, although for me with my current room set up that's not possible (is it dear:(). Wife aside my MLP is too near the L shaped lounge wall, if I could I'd have another two KEF R50s in a heartbeat.

The 8500 has wides? If so and your wides are ear level and on stands you could place a module on top of them which would bring the MLP into range. If not the rear place in a 7.1.2 would be best.
 
Personally it would have to be four Atmos, although for me with my current room set up that's not possible (is it dear:(). Wife aside my MLP is too near the L shaped lounge wall, if I could I'd have another two KEF R50s in a heartbeat.

The 8500 has wides? If so and your wides are ear level and on stands you could place a module on top of them which would bring the MLP into range. If not the rear place in a 7.1.2 would be best.

Apparently, yes. I emailed Denon support asking what support would there be in the 8500H for "Front Wides". They said that they would be supported in an Atmos setup and would work with the DTS X:Neural. And sent me the bit from the manual.

kShqggU.png

JfllDPt.png


I saw that Peter Tyson have the R50s for £399. Note to self: Stop it!!

Interesting comment about the upfiring atop the front wides. They are indeed about ear level. So that may be an option. Not sure what you're saying whether that would be in place of the front heights in a 9.1.2 setup, or in addition in a 9.1.4 set up. If the latter, wouldn't they be better placed at the Surround Back or Surrounds (as per the dolby images for a 7.1.4 set up)?
 
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The placing on the rears, reading other members' replies, is getting the best positioning for the reflected sounds if just going for a two speaker layout. If for instance I did go for 5.1.4 then my two rear modules would have to be at right angles to the MLP and not from the rear because of the damn L shaped lounge.

The Dolby layouts are basically for the perfect room scenario which I suppose very few of us have. That I suppose is the beauty of the R50s their placement can be experimented with in a large floor layout such as yours to get the best result as Audyssey will correctly calculate their position and timing.

£399, I paid the full £600 and had to wait for them to come in when they first came out. They have made a big impact on my soundstage, especially with the upmixers coming into play.
 
Apparently, yes. I emailed Denon support asking what support would there be in the 8500H for "Front Wides". They said that they would be supported in an Atmos setup and would work with the DTS X:Neural. And sent me the bit from the manual.

kShqggU.png

JfllDPt.png


I saw that Peter Tyson have the R50s for £399. Note to self: Stop it!!

Interesting comment about the upfiring atop the front wides. They are indeed about ear level. So that may be an option. Not sure what you're saying whether that would be in place of the front heights in a 9.1.2 setup, or in addition in a 9.1.4 set up. If the latter, wouldn't they be better placed at the Surround Back or Surrounds (as per the dolby images for a 7.1.4 set up)?
Hi
I had the 7200W and now the 8500 and they both do wides but IIRC on the 7200 depending on the Atmos layout with DTS:X you lose of the rears

Your room has similar dimensions to mine and if I could possibly suggest the weak part of your layout is the front heights
I also use front heights for Atmos and IMO unless they are 30 deg elevation from the MLP they just don't give the desired effect
I added 2 in ceiling Top Middle and things sound much better
unfortunate that you cant do in ceiling because if you want sound above you the speaker has to be above you
If it was me I would go for the Dolby modules on top of your wides aiming to the Top middle location 9.1.2 and see how that does you could always add another pair later
IIRC you still retain the rear speakers if you use 2 Atmos speakers
Cheers
Andy
 
Hi
I had the 7200W and now the 8500 and they both do wides but IIRC on the 7200 depending on the Atmos layout with DTS:X you lose of the rears

Your room has similar dimensions to mine and if I could possibly suggest the weak part of your layout is the front heights
I also use front heights for Atmos and IMO unless they are 30 deg elevation from the MLP they just don't give the desired effect
I added 2 in ceiling Top Middle and things sound much better
unfortunate that you cant do in ceiling because if you want sound above you the speaker has to be above you
If it was me I would go for the Dolby modules on top of your wides aiming to the Top middle location 9.1.2 and see how that does you could always add another pair later
IIRC you still retain the rear speakers if you use 2 Atmos speakers
Cheers
Andy

Interesting! The angle on the Front heights to the MLP is about 20 degrees according to my scale drawings! T'is a pity about getting wiring into the ceiling (with a MAJOR project to sink cables into walls) but it is what it is. Interesting about losing the rears potentially. Will the 8500 retain the rears with 4 x Atmos?

On a separate note and at the risk of being OT (sory OP!), did you notice any differences, subtle or otherwise, between the 8500 and 7200?
 

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