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Underpower problem?

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by JohnnyR, Aug 3, 2004.

  1. JohnnyR

    JohnnyR
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    I could really do with some advice!!

    I have just bought my first Home Cinema System and it comprises of a Pioneer PDP504 Plasma
    Denon AVC3805 Amp
    Monitor Audio Gold GR60 front speakers
    Monitor Audio Gold GR20 rear speakers
    Monitor Audio Gold LCR Centre Speaker

    The thing is the bass only seems to kick in when the Amp is turned up quite loud, but i would really like more bass at lower volumes too. Is my Amp underpowered for the job? If so what should I do - send back the Amp and buy a more powerful one - if so which one (up to £3,000 (approx)) or buy a seperate power amp on top of the above system (up to £2,000 (approx)) - maybe one with 5 channels?

    We all make mistakes and i think i may have made a rather expensive one!

    Please help!

    Thanks
     
  2. Mylo

    Mylo
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    This is a complete shot in the dark, are your speakers set to large or small in the Denon setup menu? If they're set to small all the Bass will be directed to the Subwoofer which you don't appear to have.
     
  3. Thunder

    Thunder
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    Also, how long have you been running em? Those stiff MA metal cones take quite a while to loosen up and run in :) They can start off with quite a nasal top end orientated sound when new :thumbsup:
     
  4. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Doesn't sound like a mistake. I have the same problem, using MA speakers and a Yamaha amp (said to be bright though I prefer to call it 'neutral').
    Anyhow, after moving I lost all the bass and concluded it has to do with the placing and room acoustics.
    If you can't sort this out by moving the speakers then perhaps you should opt for an active subwoofer, which would benefit the AV use as well (highly recommended!). :)
     
  5. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    Agree that you really should be looking at getting a subwoofer to ad to your system. With the £2000 budget you suggest you have to spend you would get one hell of a good sub!
    No speakers within a sensible budget can handle the bass as well as a dedicated sub. Also on a DVD you have a dedicate subwoofer track (LFE) that you will totally miss with no sub.

    Mark.
     
  6. Arcangel

    Arcangel
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    In the meantime, if you have no sub, set the Front Left and Right speakers to Large, and the others to Small and select No Sub. Set the crossover to around 80hz (you can try different settings to see which sounds best to you). At least then you'll have bass redirected from the centre and surrounds to the front main pair.

    You can then check these settings against the Denon's internal EQ system settings. :)
     
  7. mick23

    mick23
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    jonny r
    slightly off topic but i have 3802 reciever was using with bw cdm 1nt fronts,lcr60 center,600s3 surrounds (no sub) i used for occasional dvd use and because i have neibours with very young children , i always played music etc at very modest volumes.

    i had owned speakers etc for 6 months and felt that the sound had not really altered , so purchased differant speaker cable and arcam a85 amp, still found the (front speakers never sounded quite the same as various demos)

    whilst playing gladiater at low volumes i heard a loud screech from 1 tweeter , shipped speakers back to bw for replacement.

    when i recieved them back i really noticed a big improvement in how they sounded,with 3802 2 channel had since sold a85 i am only talking 2 channel , far more open and bigger souding than before, i dont feel i totally imagined this. i assumed bw had just given speakers a run in at louder volumes and for longer than myself.

    next day played 6 hours solid at approx -30 and found on later listen the 600s3 rears seemed slightly better.

    if im correct the gr 60 have 3 main drivers, the gr 20 2 main drivers , which i would think would take a while to sound there best , if you feel after a while the denon is not powerfull enough i can only suggest you have a LOAN of a poweramp from dealer first to try at home rather than just purchase,


    i found that i assumed my speakers were fully run in because i had them 6 months when if fact they were not , which led at the time to some unessary purchases.












    2
     
  8. roversd1

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    I have floor standers all round and there is enough bass, so make sure your front speakers are set to 'large' - something doesnt sound as if it is set right

    oh and remember toset 'no sub' or 'subwoofer off' until you get one.
     
  9. dts_boy

    dts_boy
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    awesome speakers the GR range! Th 60s need a LOT of power to really sing and i would highly reccomend a power amp. the parasound a52 is a good place to start, possibly an Arcam P7 (if you can stracth a bit more); then you can bi-amp your gr60 and still have 5channels of power for the other speakers. if you are looking at a sub the fb212 from monitor audio is a stunner and would be a perfect match. :smoke:
     
  10. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    JohhnyR

    How large is your listening room and how did you arrive at this set up? - the GR Series are pretty power hungry and to stick four floor standers on the end of the AV Receiver is asking a lot from the AV Receiver.

    Did you have your dealer or installer assist with the set up and balance of the current system - if not this may be a good starting point; positioning these cabinets for best aesthetics can have a big effect on how they sound; in other words where they work best in your room may not be the same place that they 'look' best in your room; a time served audio installer will assist you in these matters.

    How have you got the speakers laid out and why no sub and why the GR20 and not the GRfx for surround duties?

    I'd say you have to look at the suitability of the AV Receiver, the suitability of the GR20 as your surrounds, the lay out of the system in your room and the addition of an active sub bass speaker.

    If your new to all of this you've started with a difficult entry point - integrating a pair of loudspeakers into a room is difficult enough; throwing lots of big cabinets at any room is way more difficult. If you've not used a traditional dealer to supply the kit so far there are plenty of 'independent' specialists you can call upon to visit and advise accordingly.

    Don't just throw more cash at the problem and expect a quick fix - you really need someone with decent working experience on your side to get your system working properly.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS More power doesn't necessarily mean more watts per channel - similarly rated amplifiers will perform very differently at lower volume levels; the best (more costly) amps can 'drive' loudspeakers right across the volume spectrum whilst many (lower cost) don't have enough current capticity to work effectively at lower volume levels.
     
  11. wookie

    wookie
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    :laugh: You just hit the nail clean on the head with that one, with the exception of NAD :laugh:
     
  12. Daneel

    Daneel
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    The GR60s can output some serious bass. That is a very nice speaker setup you have there paired with a mid-range reciever. I'd look at some power amps, maybe just for the front two particularly if you like your music.
     
  13. Peter Baker

    Peter Baker
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    Just one thought which nobody else has seemed to mention. Have you checked that your speakers are wired in phase. If not this is easy to do. Simply take your main left/right speakers and place them facing each other and about 1-2 feet apart. Then change the wiring on one speaker (so that the positive goes to the negative and vice versa). Play a stereo only piece of music. If out of phase the sound will be sucked dry of bass, and the difference will be easily audible.
    I'm sure that you will have checked this, but just in case.
    I have been in reputable dealers and found speakers wired out of phase. It is far less obvious if the speakers are in a normal standing position, but it will kill the bass.
     

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