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uncut manga from where??

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by rob_w, Mar 28, 2002.

  1. rob_w

    rob_w
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    hi all

    i`ve just found out that my copy of urotsukidoji (legend of the overfiend) is apparently cut to shreds(video copy i`ve had for 8 years) I`ve just been looking to replace with dvd....

    i`ve spent most of my night searching for some info on different regions but i`ve had no joy.

    i prefer subtitles to dubbed if that helps.
    can someone please point me to a decent site for info on manga censorship ?

    thanx in advance


    robwells
     
  2. Shoka

    Shoka
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    I've been looking for uncut Manga as well, I found a copy of Devilman (one of my favorite manga shorts) at www.coolashop.com but it didn't have english subtitles, my cousin lives in singapore, and i'm thinking of getting her to send me a shed load but I'm worried about customs. I know that the customs limit is about £25-£30 but still dont know how to play it, anyone got any ideas.
     
  3. rob_w

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    i reckon you should give your cousin a bell - if she sends over the films 1 at a time and marks them as a gift then they could possibly slip through the net ..?

    worth a try on one or two titles anyway

    i wish my cousin still lived in hong kong !- he had to leave when the uk gave it back to china .
    anyway good luck

    has anyone got any info on websites etc?

    cheers
    robwells
     
  4. Lex

    Lex
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    My friend is always sending me DVDs from the USA - never had any problems whatsoever. The most I have had is 10 in a package. As long as it is marked gift there is no problem.

    Lex.
     
  5. Shoka

    Shoka
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    www.ddhouse.com or www.coolashop.com both good HK sitess as far as I'm concerned.
     
  6. Shoka

    Shoka
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    She sent me 4 for my birthday, marked them as $200 HK dollars which is about "£20 and I had to pay customs on them, all though the last time I heard the customs level was £30.
     
  7. Lex

    Lex
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    I am surprised by this - I have never experienced this problem! Maybe they are more wary of parcels from asia? I don't know how else to explain it?

    Lex.
     
  8. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Well, you maybe lucky but normally all parcels above a certain limit ($$) are too be taxed, even they are labelled as gift.

    Note that the tax will be calculated from the value of the item(s) plus cost of shipping!
     
  9. PoochJD

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    FAO Rob Wells,

    Rob - Before you can play an uncut DVD copy of "Urotsukidoji", you will need to make sure you own a DVD player that can take Region 1 US DVD's. If you already have that function, then this will apply to you.

    The Urotsukidoji is available on US Region 1 DVD from anime company Anime18. However, because of the content, only a few DVD sites will stock it and sell it to you. Don't forget, that if this gets stopped at HM Customs, you WON'T get this title back! "Urotsukidoji 4: Inferno Road" is definitely classified as obscene, and you may end-up being prosecuted if you aren't careful!

    The whole "Urotsukidoji" saga comes as 3 separate DVD titles. These are:

    DVD 1) Urotsukidoji Perfect Collection: (A boxed set that contains all 5 parts that make up "Legend Of The Overfiend" and "Legend Of The Demon Womb" uncut! Also known in the UK as "Urotsukidoji: Legend Of The Overfiend" and "Urotsukidoji 2: Legend Of The Demon Womb"! Total Running Time for the whole collection 250 minutes!)

    DVD 2) Urotsukidoji 3: Return Of The Overfiend (Duration is 190 minutes approx, and not the 210 it says on the cover!)

    DVD 3) Urotsukidoji 4: Inferno Road (Duration is 120 minutes approx, and not the 135 it says on the cover!)

    Sadly, I don't think it's possible to get Urotsukidoji 3 and 4 in a subtitled format from the USA. To make matters worse, "Urotsukidoji: Perfect Collection" is subtitled in English with Japanese audio only; "Urotsukidoji 3" is dubbed only (despite what the packaging says) and "Urotsukidoji 4" is also dubbed only (again, despite what the packaging says).

    The problem was that Anime18 did try and get a subtitled copy for "Urotsukidoji 3" and "4", but none were available to them, that had suitably high-enough quality prints, to justify releasing them to DVD. Hence, the dubbed only versions.

    If you want, you can get "Urotsukidoji: Legend Of The Overfiend" and "Urotsukidoji: Legend Of The Demon Womb" as two separate titles, on the same Region 1 "Anime18" label, which are dubbed only.

    I got my "Urotsukidoji" DVD's from...

    http://www.dc-dvd.net

    ... without any problems. However, the "Urotsukidoji: Perfect Collection" will set you back around £45 as it has been deleted for a long time! The other two, sell for about £25 each. The company is reputable as I can personally vouch for them, having used them for over 2 years now. Delivery for these titles may take 3-4 weeks though.. for obvious reasons!

    Failing all of that, you can get all of the "Urotsukidoji" saga on multiple videos, from Japan. However, I don't know what the quality is like, or if there are any English subtitles. In Japan, it was released as:

    "Urotsukidoji: Legend Of The Overfiend" and "Legend Of The Demon Womb" across 5 tapes.
    "Urotsukidoji 3" across 4 tapes.
    "Urotsukidoji 4" across 3 tapes.

    DO NOT BOTHER purchasing the UK videos or DVD's as they have all had masses of material excised, and Urotsukidoji 4 is actually banned, as it is ultimately very little more than child porn. BE WARNED! It's not easy viewing for ANYONE! Even hardcore horror and gore fans, may find these films very distressing to watch! So be prepared, okay. And that's not me hyping the films up. This material is very grim and distrubing even by animation standards!

    If you want info on anime censorship or anime on DVD in general, then check out either of the following:

    http://www.animeondvd.com

    http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/$$Search

    I hope this helps you out.

    Pooch
     
  10. rob_w

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    ok poochJD , cheers for the info..

    i`m only really interested in the first one,poss 2nd (overfiend/demon womb) so it looks like the "perfect collection" is the one for me!

    as you say , the rest sounds a bit dubious. btw, have you seen the whole lot? - is it worth looking for a cut version to complete the whole story?, or looking for a comic version?

    i`m not a huge manga fan - overfiend is the only one in my collection so i don`t know a hell of a lot about it. - i saw akira a long time ago and will buy that soon.

    i watched my copy of overfiend last night, and i`d forgotten how good the story was, but knowing it is cut a lot i reckon i`m missing out on a lot of character development ..and gore of course ;-)

    any way i`ll have a look at those sites listed now

    cheers
    robwells
     
  11. thestorm

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    BE WARNED! It's not easy viewing for ANYONE! Even hardcore horror and gore fans, may find these films very distressing to watch! So be prepared, okay. And that's not me hyping the films up. This material is very grim and distrubing even by animation standards!


    Now I definetly have to get it!
    Will I be able to get rid of it on online auctions if i dont like it?
    is there a lot of demand for it?

    Btw way ..what's the big deal abt hentai? It's basically
    anime porn, right?
     
  12. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    FAO The Storm,

    You asked: "Will I be able to get rid of it on online auctions if i dont like it? is there a lot of demand for it? what's the big deal abt hentai? It's basically anime porn, right?"

    I don't want to sound rude, but if the only reason you want to get this set of films, is because it's "animated porn" (as you so bluntly described it), then you are showing no respect to either the film makers or the anime genre as a whole! :mad:

    1) Yes, you probably would be able to get rid of it online if you didn't like it. However, the film is extremely complex, and I doubt (from what you've already written above) that you are interested in the film, but only in the "animated porn" scenes! :mad: :mad:

    2) Demand-wise? I don't know.

    3) The big deal about Hentai is that it is unique to Japan. It's not just animated porn! Japanese anime, has as many different types of sub-genres, as normal, regular films. There's sci-fi, horror, comedy, thrillers, westerns, children's titles, sports titles, as well as porn. If all you're interested in is porn, then don't bother watching this film, as it will probably bore you rigid! Nor is it erotic, so don't even think of getting it for masturbatory value! If that's all you're interested in, then go to HMV instead, and pick up any one of thousands of regular porn films!

    It really annoys me that everyone presumes that viewers of "Urotsukidoji" only buy it because it's animated porn. It isn't! It's a horror drama, with a lot of adult-material in it! There is a gigantic difference!

    Pornography, as you may well know, is designed to arouse its audience. No one who took film seriously would claim that "Basic Instinct" was pornography, or "Henry & June" or "Lolita", because they don't fit the definition of what porn is! "Urotsukidoji" won't arouse you in the slightest sense, unless you get-off on scenes of animated rape, bestiality and child-porn!

    The film is a serious one. It is not designed to titillate, or be erotic, or anything like that! Now can people please get their minds out of the gutter! My warning was meant to be serious, so that Rob didn't suddenly find himself with a film that may have caused him offence! That's all! It was not designed to promote the film as pornography!

    A rather angry,

    Pooch
     
  13. thestorm

    thestorm
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    but if the only reason you want to get this set of films, is because it's "animated porn" (as you so bluntly described it), then you are showing no respect to either the film makers or the anime genre as a whole! :mad:


    who said it's just porn? did i?:eek:
    did i say i wanted it cuz it's porn? shock horror!!!
    no way!! not me!!!

    Note the question mark at the end of my msg!
    it looks like this ===> ?


    I was curious so i asked, as u're lengthy msg's indicate that
    u're very knowledgeable abt anime.
    It's means i'm asking for info abt this genre.

    If you took it as offense then that was not the point of
    the msg, and i'm sorry, and you should get out a bit more often
    too it's good friday! ;) people spend time with their family.



    3) The big deal about Hentai is that it is unique to Japan. It's not just animated porn! Japanese anime, has as many different types of sub-genres, as normal, regular films. There's sci-fi, horror, comedy, thrillers, westerns, children's titles, sports titles, as well as porn. If all you're interested in is porn, then don't bother watching this film, as it will probably bore you rigid! Nor is it erotic, so don't even think of getting it for masturbatory value! If that's all you're interested in, then go to HMV instead, and pick up any one of thousands of regular porn films!



    ok mr .angry
    so what is Hentai? and what is anime?

    i'm not trying to be smart arse or anything, i really want to know.


    Now can people please get their minds out of the gutter! My warning was meant to be serious, so that Rob didn't suddenly find himself with a film that may have caused him offence! That's all! It was not designed to promote the film as pornography!



    relax man.. u're not going to encourage peopele to enjoy films
    you enjoy by getting angry. that's the whole point of msg boards
    so we advise each other abt all thing av.
    At this rate your style is just going to scare people away from
    this : http://www.avforums.com/


    A rather angry,


    ;):D
     
  14. PoochJD

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    Thestorm,

    Okay, I apologise for coming across so heavy-handed. However, in my defence, you did insinuate that "Urotsukidoji" was Hentai, and Hentai, was basically animated porn. Hence, my rather ribald posting! :(

    You then asked: "ok mr .angry so what is Hentai? and what is anime? i'm not trying to be smart arse or anything, i really want to know."

    Hentai - is actually a person interested in a sexually explicit story. However, it has been ripped-off and (ab)used to misleadingly mean any kind of adult anime in general. Sadly, in the UK, most people still believe Hentai to be "animated porn".

    Anime - is the Japanese term for "animation". However, in the UK and USA, it is generally taken to mean a "specific style of animation, that originates from Japan and the Far East." Also, misleadingly, and mainly down to the UK media and press, the British public automatically presume that all anime is just "those violent and sick little cartoons from Japan". As an anime fan, it annoys me, that despite the reasonbly high profile that anime has received over the last few years, that people STILL think this is the case!

    Anyway. I do apologise to anyone who was upset by my rant. I didn't mean to come across in such a vitriolic way, and certainly wasn't meant to be taken as a personal attack against yourself.

    Please accept my apology. Your post simply touched a raw nerve in me, and I saw red. Sorry, Storm. (Is it okay if I call you just "Storm", please? :D Thanks!)

    Pooch
     
  15. thestorm

    thestorm
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    Okay, I apologise for coming across so heavy-handed. However, in my defence, you did insinuate that "Urotsukidoji" was Hentai, and Hentai, was basically animated porn. Hence, my rather ribald posting! :(



    ok i see why u're offended. I don't know much abt this
    Hentai thing. And been lazy to find out!
    I have been meaning to make a break into
    anime and get some dvds
    but haven't had the chance and most my money is going
    towards getting Sky \ Broadband and more recently xbox.

    I first came across the word "Hentai" from US msg boards
    they commented on the computer game Dead or Alive 3
    where the ladies in that look damn gorgeous (for computer
    characters) and some narrow minded folk said that if they
    "get off on those girls", then they should get hentai"
    So i thought maybe hentai is some anime \ porn \ or something
    or some cult animation genre like fantasy horror adenture
    based on "sexy" characters like Xena: Warrior Princess.



    Please accept my apology. Your post simply touched a raw nerve in me, and I saw red. Sorry, Storm. (Is it okay if I call you just "Storm", please? :D Thanks!)



    ;) i'm not going to marry you if tha'ts going to be next question!

    But yes... u can call me : storm

    Cya,
    Shaz
     
  16. Lex

    Lex
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    I lived in America for a year or so (96/98) - one evening I hired some "anime" films from the local video store and, not having a clue what I was hiring, was shocked by the hardcore nature of the material (Can't remember the names - one was called 'Twin Angels' I think) - I don't mean to say that I am prudish, what I mean is that I was shocked by the fact it was available sitting on the shelf along with all the Disney videos!
    It is amazing how people still think that all animation is for children (ie South Park).
    Strange how the US as a culture tends to censor sexual content far more than we do, and yet these films, presumably as they were animated, were sitting on the video shop shelf.

    Personally I found the films hysterically funny (although vast quantities of Budwieser had been consumed!)

    Lex.
     
  17. rob_w

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    i became interested in manga at school, when akira was released.

    after seeing that i bought a few other films, but they were aimed towards the younger viewer so i lost interest in manga . i cant even remember what they were!
    i bought overfiend on a recommendation from a mate, and my interest was revived a bit. but i havent really kept up on it - i bought the occasional copy of manga mania but was never impressed much.

    looking around the web has made me want to get a few more films though

    any suggestions pooch? vampire hunter D:bloodlust?

    cheers
    robwells
     
  18. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Rob,

    It depends what you like. However, all of these titles are worth your time and money. They're also all Region 1 US titles.

    - Dominion: Tank Police
    - Gunsmith Cats: Bulletproof
    - Urusei Yatsura: TV Series (Volumes 1 onwards)
    - Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade
    - Metropolis (out soon)
    - Ghost In The Shell
    - Akira: Special Edition
    - Perfect Blue (Get the Region 2 version! :eek: )
    - Vampire Hunter D (Don't know about the sequel "Bloodlust")

    You're best bet is to look through the Anime On DVD site I mentioned earlier on, or get one of the Anime books by Helen McCarthy and Jonathan Clements. Their books are available from most high-quality book shops, like Waterstones, or Bertrams.

    Oh, and just to be nit-picky: Manga is the Japanese word for comic books, whilst Anime is their word for animation. The problem is that there is a US and UK video company called "Manga Video", which abused the word! I guess "Anime Video" didn't quite have the same ring to it!

    Hope that is of some use.

    Pooch
     
  19. Lex

    Lex
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    Is there something wrong with the Region 1 version?
     
  20. Shoka

    Shoka
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    Oringinaly posted by pooch:

    ... without any problems. However, the "Urotsukidoji: Perfect Collection" will set you back around £45 as it has been deleted for a long time! The other two, sell for about £25 each. The company is reputable as I can personally vouch for them, having used them for over 2 years now. Delivery for these titles may take 3-4 weeks though.. for obvious reasons!

    reading all the posts about Urotsukidoji, inspired me to watch it again, I've only got the R2 version and I know it is cut to shreds.

    So i thought I might buy all four films from the states, how come its so expensive.
    here?

    is it as you have said because of the highly adult content?
     
  21. Lex

    Lex
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    I had better go find my magnifying glass!!:D :D
     
  22. rob_w

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    thanx for the list pooch - i`m pretty sure i`ve seen the dominion tank police series - was it on bravo some 6 years ago?(like anyone would remember!)
    i also saw the tokyo babylon series back on sky/poss ch4 around the same time..... cant get sky where i live now cos its a listed building! aerial reception crap too - only get itv bbc2 and ch5 when it rains

    must be why i`m looking to buy some interesting stuff again!

    cheers
    robwells

    btw manga/anime bit - i probably got confused cos every tape i`ve ever seen in the uk has had manga written on it! easily done.......
     
  23. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Lex, Shoka, (and anyone else),

    Firstly, with regards to me saying get the R2 version of "Perfect Blue", it was only because, in my opinion, the picture quality was a fraction better than the R1 edition.

    The R2 version has a healthy set of extras, (for an anime title, at least), and it contains both the Subtitled and Dubbed versions. Other than that, I don't think there's actually any difference.

    Secondly, with the price of the "Urotsukidoji" sets, yes they are expensive, for two main reasons:

    1) The "Urotsukidoji Perfect Collection" has been deleted now, for a long time, and I have yet to find any other online DVD store that stocks it for less than this - that I trust!

    2) Some online companies will take your order, but then send a letter to you stating that this title IS obscene, and will then refuse to import it for you.

    3) Some online companies count this title as a "hot potato" and won't touch it with a barge-pole, because of the nature of it.

    4) Having said all that, DC-DVD got it through to my address here in England, without having a whiff of HM Customs noses anywhere near it! :) As such, because of the nature of the entire series, I wouldn't risk getting it from any online comapny where you have personally had packages stopped / inspected / Customs charges applied.

    If Customs saw this title, in theory there is a high liability that you would be prosecuted for importing obscene material, and you would have very little come-back, or excuses to use in your defence. (In my case, I could always have gotten a letter from my Senior Lecture at university, who would have authorised my obtaining this material, as part of the work for my Hostory Of Cinema degree at University. Sadly, it is unlikely many of you would be able to do likewise!)

    Apart from that, there are almost no other legitimate reasons to import this title, that a court would find acceptable. The series really IS very,very controversial, and I advise anyone intending to import this title, to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS when doing so.

    Sorry folks, but I will not accept any responsibility for any problems regarding the importation of this title, under any circumstances. You import this at your own peril! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Pooch
     
  24. Shoka

    Shoka
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    I think the best way to get them then would be to fork out the extra for the single DVD's (1-4), less chance of customs nabbing em.
     
  25. PoochJD

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    Shoka,

    I don't think, to be brutally honest here, that it will make much of a difference if you import "Urotsukidoji: Perfect Collection" on its own (in a regular double Amaray case) or as two separate movie - "Legend Of The Overfiend" and "Legend Of The Demon Womb".

    All I was suggesting was that these films are HIGHLY LIKELY to be considered obscene, and if you get caught importing them, you won't get much chance at telling HM Customs or your local county court that "Sorry, Judge. I had no idea that these films are banned or obscene!" It won't wash with them, and I'd expect either a severe fine, or possibly a prison-term! :eek: That's how "obscene" these films are!

    Don't think for one minute I'm hyping these films up! I can assure you, that I am not, and that this is no "Cannibal Holocaust" or "Mermaid In A Manhole" or "Faces of Death"! It's worse than those three, and I'm not exaggerating!!

    Basically, you either risk importing the films, or you don't! And once you've placed the order, start praying that HM Customs don't randomly check one of the packages that any of the "Urotsukidoji" titles is in! As soon as they see the covers alone, they'll immediately view the movies, and then, within about 48 hours, I'd expect to be hearing from Mr and Mrs Plod the local Police Officers, arriving at your home, with a search warrant!

    Pooch
     
  26. Shoka

    Shoka
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    :eek: :eek: I think I will leave it then, dont fancy old bill knocking on my door at all.
     
  27. Lex

    Lex
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    Shoka,

    Whilst I sympthise with Pooch's advice, I think he is being a little overly dramatic (Sorry:) ). I think the worst thing that will happen is that your discs will be confiscated and you will recieve a letter explaining why. It is highly unlikely (will not happen) that you will recieve a visit from the police with a search warrant.

    See Pooch's interesting post in the 'Importing DVDs Thread' to read about people's experiences with HM Customs.

    Was surprised to hear that Boiling Point is considered worthy of confiscation (I wonder what Wesley Snipes thinks about that!:D )
     
  28. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Lex,

    With the greatest respect, from one Moderator to another, (and I do sincerely mean that!), unless you have seen this entire series uncut, then I'm afraid this is an occasion when you (or any other person who hasn't seen these films) can't really comment on what may or may not happen if you imported this series.

    If you do want to read the article, about Importing DVD's, and all aspects of importing them into the UK specifically, then go to:

    http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/seizures.htm

    It's a lengthy, but shocking and fascinating read! Oh, and it is also quite contradictory in some parts as well!

    Pooch
     
  29. Lex

    Lex
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    Pooch,

    I am still not convinced that Shoka would get his door beaten down for buying for this anime series on DVD, but lets not argue over a small point! :)
    The melonfarmers site is full of interesting stories and just shows what a mess the whole censorship and importing of different region DVDs is.

    How are these anime DVDs you were talking about handled in Japan? Are they considered obscene there or do they have different levels of censorship?

    I think something is going to have to be done to try and standardise these rules, I mean the world is becoming a smaller place by the day as the interntet grows - I've even known friends to buy DVDs from foriegn sites without even realising they weren't British!

    The whole thing is a mess!
     
  30. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    HI,

    Lex asked: "How are these anime DVDs you were talking about handled in Japan? Are they considered obscene there or do they have different levels of censorship?"

    Well, I don't know a huge amount about how the Japanese classify videos and films, but I do know this:

    In Japan, full-frontal nudity is sometimes optically blurred, by placing a "digital mosaic" over the offending parts. This is what happened with the "Urotsukidoji" saga. However, because of the amount of nudity and sexual acts in the film, it became a nightmare for the censors to do this. As such, it was ordered that the whole series be sold only in Japanese sex shops, just like R18 certificated films here in the UK.

    Despite this, in anime especially, because the anime creators know about this "optical blurring" taking place, when it comes to female frontal nudity, they just never drew in any details in that area of their characters. The problem then, was that no optical-blurring took place, but it made all the female characters look heavily under-age (e.g. teenagers of 13 or 14). Thus, when these films are released in the USA, it poses another problem that to uneducated or unaccustomed to Japanese censorship, that all the female characters look under-age, and thus the film becomes branded as "child pornography". That is why almost all "adult" Japanese anime titles have a legal disclaimer on them, stating that "All persons depicted in this work, are at least 18 years of age!". However, with "Urotsukidoji IV: Inferno Road", the creators deliberately made many of the characters underage, and thus, they really did depict under-age characters having sex (consensual or otherwise)! :eek: Hence, the problematic nature of importing this part of the whole "Urotsukidoji" saga!

    Japan's censors have become a little more liberal, over the past few years, and these films aren't considered obscene, but full-frontal nudity is still taboo in some parts of Japan.

    Pooch
     

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